Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Dr Pepper]

Isn't the 2nd text message, "You said you were having fun?"? And then he says, "Your mom is misinterpreting things" and then "Thanks for being honest about this" after she says she reached back out to the police.

Reading between the lines of the text messages can lead to multiple interpretations. That's why it's best to wait for the investigations to conclude.

Should be interesting if/when we find out which player sent those texts, and compare it with the corresponding, cookie-cutter "I wasn't there" statements they all released.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Isn't the 2nd text message, "You said you were having fun?"? And then he says, "Your mom is misinterpreting things" and then "Thanks for being honest about this" after she says she reached back out to the police.

Reading between the lines of the text messages can lead to multiple interpretations. That's why it's best to wait for the investigations to conclude.

yes, reading between the lines, he is a gaslighting dbag who is trying to manipulate her into thinking she's overreacting and in the wrong here and has an obligation to make this right "fer da boyz"

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Isn't the 2nd text message, "You said you were having fun?"? And then he says, "Your mom is misinterpreting things" and then "Thanks for being honest about this" after she says she reached back out to the police.

Reading between the lines of the text messages can lead to multiple interpretations. That's why it's best to wait for the investigations to conclude.

This makes no sense. I hear it every so often. “No point in speculating on that trade until it happens”

“Why are talking about a guy who hasn’t played a full season yet “

“Let’s not talk about this until after the investigation”


This is a message board , chat room. This is the exact forum for thoughts , opinions etc. that’s why it’s here. For people to talk about things even if they have different opinions.

 

[DaveMatthew]

This makes no sense. I hear it every so often. “No point in speculating on that trade until it happens”

“Why are talking about a guy who hasn’t played a full season yet “

“Let’s not talk about this until after the investigation”


This is a message board , chat room. This is the exact forum for thoughts , opinions etc. that’s why it’s here. For people to talk about things even if they have different opinions.

Never said you can't speculate. But you can't necessarily make a definitive conclusion.

Someone could read those texts and come to the opposite thought that you did. They're ambiguous and can be debated.

No different than assessing a trade. You can speculate on who won on the day it takes place, but you can't conclude that.

 

[WarriorofTime]

All of this crap about it not being a "hockey" problem because it happens in other areas besides hockey is just that, crap. Let's not even getting into the likely racially-charged implications behind the number of people that say football and basketball are probably way way worse... Nobody and I repeat absolutely nobody is saying that because this is a problem in hockey, it means it is not a problem anywhere else. Hockey and hockey culture is what is being discussed right now. And it needs to be fixed. If your house is on fire, you don't say 'well there's a lot of other houses that catch fire too, it's a problem for a lot of houses, not just this one specific house'... NO, you put out that fire! "hockey culture" needs that fire put out.

 

[DaveMatthew]

All of this crap about it not being a "hockey" problem because it happens in other areas besides hockey is just that, crap. Let's not even getting into the likely racially-charged implications behind the number of people that say football and basketball are probably way way worse... Nobody and I repeat absolutely nobody is saying that because this is a problem in hockey, it means it is not a problem anywhere else. Hockey and hockey culture is what is being discussed right now. And it needs to be fixed. If your house is on fire, you don't say 'well there's a lot of other houses that catch fire too, it's a problem for a lot of houses, not just this one specific house'... NO, you put out that fire! "hockey culture" needs that fire put out.

The conversation needs to be had on multiple levels. The problem with saying something like "we need to fix hockey culture" and leaving it at that, is that it's too broad. Hockey Canada is not hockey culture. Hockey culture is not Hockey Canada.

There are some very practical changes that Hockey Canada needs to put in place, like having a 3rd party investigate and decide how to act on any and all sexual assault allegations, enforcing a much stricter code of conduct for players, etc.

But the hose analogy is a bad one. "Hockey culture" is complex. You can't just douse it with a one-size fits all solution and call it a day. What should governing bodies do differently? What should the governments that fund the governing bodies do differently? What should local organizations do differently? What should coaches do differently? What should parents do differently? What should schools and teachers do differently? What should sports media do differently? What should professional leagues do differently? What should professional players do differently?

 

[WarriorofTime]

The conversation needs to be had on multiple levels. The problem with saying something like "we need to fix hockey culture" and leaving it at that, is that it's too broad. Hockey Canada is not hockey culture. Hockey culture is not Hockey Canada.

There are some very practical changes that Hockey Canada needs to put in place, like having a 3rd party investigate and decide how to act on any and all sexual assault allegations, enforcing a much stricter code of conduct for players, etc.

But the hose analogy is a bad one. "Hockey culture" is complex. You can't just douse it with a one-size fits all solution and call it a day. What should governing bodies do differently? What should the governments that fund the governing bodies do differently? What should local organizations do differently? What should coaches do differently? What should parents do differently? What should schools and teachers do differently? What should sports media do differently? What should professional leagues do differently? What should professional players do differently?

I'm not going to pretend to sit here and have every answer or that there is some "one size fits all" solution that will make everything better overnight. I think there are people more qualified than I to do that. What I do know is that "the status quo" is not the answer. The hockey bubble is popping out way too many "bad apples" with a support system that enables and tries to make these sort of "bad PR" incidents go away, with the "bad PR" being the primary concern of those involved. It's very rotten.

 

[Caje]

This makes no sense. I hear it every so often. “No point in speculating on that trade until it happens”

“Why are talking about a guy who hasn’t played a full season yet “

“Let’s not talk about this until after the investigation”


This is a message board , chat room. This is the exact forum for thoughts , opinions etc. that’s why it’s here. For people to talk about things even if they have different opinions.

Speculating about a trade or a prospect's skill is fun and harmless.

Speculating about who's a rapist based on scraps of information and internet detective work is not fun and harmless.

Not the same thing.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

He's an Oilers fan. Evander Kane scored a bunch of goals for them in the playoffs and therefore did nothing wrong.

Did he make that document? I mean its kind of funny if he is going to include all those allegations then blatantly ignore the player that Oilers fans were drooling over just because he scored goals for them lol.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Should sticky this post. Time for these players to speak up.

My name is [insert name] I have never been accused of any of the actions involved in this scandal and I wasn't present at the time as I was asleep in my own bed.

If that's all it takes to absolve anyone, who are you going to blame when the rest of them make the same statements?

 

[Byron Bitz]

My name is [insert name] I have never been accused of any of the actions involved in this scandal and I wasn't present at the time as I was asleep in my own bed.

If that's all it takes to absolve anyone, who are you going to blame when the rest of them make the same statements?

The ones who were not there that night have released statements specifically saying they were not present. That’s what their lawyers are telling them to do if they were not there.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I'm not going to pretend to sit here and have every answer or that there is some "one size fits all" solution that will make everything better overnight. I think there are people more qualified than I to do that. What I do know is that "the status quo" is not the answer. The hockey bubble is popping out way too many "bad apples" with a support system that enables and tries to make these sort of "bad PR" incidents go away, with the "bad PR" being the primary concern of those involved. It's very rotten.

No arguments there. Hell, Evander Kane scores a few goals in the playoffs at the hockey world loves him again.

 

[WarriorofTime]

My name is [insert name] I have never been accused of any of the actions involved in this scandal and I wasn't present at the time as I was asleep in my own bed.

If that's all it takes to absolve anyone, who are you going to blame when the rest of them make the same statements?

The ones who were there inside of the room cannot make that statement as it is a blatant falsehood and is likely to be revealed at some point. Their whole theory of the case is that there was consent. They could certainly try I suppose, but they know that a lot of people know if they were there or not, and it will certainly look even worse for them if they were caught lying about being present. "ohhh I guess I just forgot, uh well, I was there and yes I engaged in sexual acts.. which I guess I also just forgot about it.. but it was consensual, and this time I am really telling the truth"

 

[catnip]

Everything not being on the up and up was pretty obvious from the moment it was revealed that Hockey Canada paid a big settlement and tried to buy the story. The only people that think otherwise are those that have their head in the sand and won't acknowledge reality.

Well, yes, but certain people have been screaming that we don't know the facts, everyone is innocent until we have a guilty verdict, women make shit up all the time yada yada yada. I'm just saying that even if you only go by what everyone involved seems to agree on, it still looks pretty damn bad.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Did he make that document? I mean its kind of funny if he is going to include all those allegations then blatantly ignore the player that Oilers fans were drooling over just because he scored goals for them lol.

.

I did not make the document. I don’t know why you’d assume that and then using it as some weak as shit gotcha moment.

 

[Byron Bitz]

If I was Dubé and I was innocent and my agent released a statement like this when other players have released statements specifically stating that they were not there that night, I would fire my agent.

 

[DaveMatthew]

View attachment 571447
If I was Dubé and I was innocent and my agent released a statement like this when other players have released statements specifically stating that they were not there that night, I would fire my agent.

Dube could have been in the room and still proclaim he's innocent of any crimes. That's likely what this statement means.

This thread has concluded, for the most part, that in the room = guilty... but that's not how it'll be viewed in the police and league investigations.

They'll try to establish what happened in the room, first, before saying that anyone there is guilty.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Pretty obvious based on the statements who was in the room. Things are really circling up and heating up around the guilty. Their reputations are likely soiled forever but if they can avoid legal trouble it's likely their hockey careers can go forward.

 

[DueDiligence]

View attachment 571447
If I was Dubé and I was innocent and my agent released a statement like this when other players have released statements specifically stating that they were not there that night, I would fire my agent.

That statement could mean that he did have consensual sex with her. In his mind he did no "wrongdoing".

 

[WarriorofTime]

Dube could have been in the room and still proclaim he's innocent of any crimes. That's likely what this statement means.

This thread has concluded, for the most part, that in the room = guilty... but that's not how it'll be viewed in the police and league investigations.

They'll try to establish what happened in the room, first, before saying that anyone there is guilty.

I think there's at least a good chance that there may be a couple of people who were in and out of the room that did not engage in the conduct themselves. Certainly still not a great spot to be but less culpable than the others.

 

[Mikah]

The only number made public is the $3.55M in the original lawsuit.

Regardless of the number, because that's not the question here.

Once you signed a financial settlement so that you drop the charges, what happens if you change your mind?

Can they put conditions like if it was some sort of contract? Can she have agreed to never press charges and never tell any details/names, or she has to pay the money back?

 

[catnip]

Isn't "all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing" a blatant lie?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Isn't "all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing" a blatant lie?

not really, even if not technically true either. Nobody was arrested.

 

[I am toxic]

All of this crap about it not being a "hockey" problem because it happens in other areas besides hockey is just that, crap. Let's not even getting into the likely racially-charged implications behind the number of people that say football and basketball are probably way way worse... Nobody and I repeat absolutely nobody is saying that because this is a problem in hockey, it means it is not a problem anywhere else. Hockey and hockey culture is what is being discussed right now. And it needs to be fixed. If your house is on fire, you don't say 'well there's a lot of other houses that catch fire too, it's a problem for a lot of houses, not just this one specific house'... NO, you put out that fire! "hockey culture" needs that fire put out.

Here's my take. If you have time to waste further, go back and re-read this thread through this lens:

If anyone is puzzled by the amazingly high number of idiotic posts, don't be.

While the internet is a treasure trove of idiotic postings, thoughts, and musings, those are often random, and really only reflect a small slice of the total dark matter of idiocy that is out there. Only a small slice because of laziness to post the full idiocy. If idiocy was ever combined with industry - no, not the factories, the trait of hard work - well, we would be buried.

So why all the industry (hard work) at the idiocy we see here in this thread?

Well, allow me to attempt to convince you it isn't idiocy at all, it is sheer brilliance. And the more idiotic is it, the more we will see it.




First, think about rape-enabling culture.

For those in their fifties and sixties plus, we grew up in a Canada where it was legal for a man to rape their wife. Legal. Until January 4, 1983. Don’t believe me? Go look it up.

Legal.

I won’t go into other aspects – the “she asked for it (went to his room) so it’s ok”, “if she didn’t want it, why was she wearing skimpy clothes”, “if she didn’t want it, why didn’t she ‘invent an excuse’, such as having a yeast infection or menstruation to avoid a sexual interaction with <him> on the night in question.”

I know, right? Yeast infection, menstruation? You are thinking to yourself, don’t be so effing ridiculously toxic, Toxic, no one says those kinds of things. No one.

Except they do. Like, in court. Yesterday. July 20, 2022. A lawyer used that line of defense in court. Yesterday. I wrote it verbatim from the news report. Verbatim. The technical term is cut’n’paste. Did I mention that this was yesterday? It was. And I did.


So yeah, rape-enabling culture. Go back to the Paris opera house referenced in the Katz thread. Or Roman tablets (snapchat was still in its infancy back then). Rape-enabling culture. It’s so deeply ingrained, many don’t even see it as it parades right past them.
__________________________________

Now, let's go through the main points of idiocy (actually brilliance) we see in this thread one by one.

We'll begin with the "it's not a hockey problem, it's a society problem" tactic. Call it exhibit “R”.

As I stated in an earlier post, this is a tactic designed to deflect and trivialize assault cases and create the effect of discouraging victims from reporting. An idiotic (read, brilliant) post that attempts to falsely equate the toxic culture in hockey to the problems we have in society in general is not adding to the conversation – it is a deliberate attempt to defend rape-enabling culture. Discouraging victims from reporting. Tell me, what are the stats? 90% of rapes go unreported? Huh.

But there’s more. Here’s one of my very favourites: the “innocent until proven guilty” tactic. In a criminal court of law. Let’s call it exhibit “A”. (I know what you are thinking – “why is Toxic so idiotic, starting with exhibit ‘R’ before this one?” Well, yeah, I am pretty idiotic).

Anyway, exhibit “A” is truly brilliant, because while pretending to advocate for the rule of law etc or whatever you want to call the fundamental tenets of justice, those 90% of rapists, the ones that are never reported, just received not only a free pass, they also get a gold star of “innocence”. Combine that with the near-impossible standard for the burden of proof in a criminal court of law, and the remaining 10% of rapists have very little to fear that they will ever be “proven guilty”. “Innocent” rapists. Effing brilliant.

Remember what I wrote about “rape-enabling culture” above? No? Well, scroll up.

Ok, back now? Good. Now guess who designed and operates our criminal “justice” system. If you guessed that it was women with little or no power, you might want to rethink your guess. The fact that men could legally rape their wives in Canada until January 4, 1983 might give you a hint as to who designed and operates the system. Try guessing again.

So yeah, when I think of OJ and how he stabbed the mother of his children to death and her friend, and the overwhelming evidence in that case that he stabbed the mother of his children to death and her friend, I didn’t need a conviction in a criminal court to correctly conclude he stabbed the mother of his children and her friend to death, I could simply look at the ample evidence available that he stabbed the mother of his children to death and her friend and come to the correct conclusion that he stabbed the mother of his children to death and her friend.

I know, right? I write this like I sound like I didn’t even know he was acquitted in that criminal trial. But in fact I do know that, and that is why I don’t need to rely on criminal convictions when arriving at conclusions. I can look at the evidence and come up with my own conclusions. You know, ranges of probable outcomes etc etc. And I did it better than a criminal court. You could too. Of course, I might not be able to do any better than a civil court, which jury unanimously agreed with me. That he stabbed the mother of his children to death and her friend. Or maybe the jury threw darts at a board and just got lucky. Either way, I came to the correct conclusion. Based on the evidence.

Next we have the “it's best to wait for the investigations to conclude” tactic. Let’s call it exhibit “P”.

You know, investigations like the Hockey Canada "investigation". The one that didn’t interview over half the players. The one that was never concluded. Or the police investigation - that was closed. Except now it is under internal review. And the police can’t comment on anyway. You know, the investigations conducted by the institutions created and operated by women with little or no powe . . . oh wait. Yeah, wait. Wait until the investigations conclude. Like, if the victim hadn’t gone to civil court, not only would we not be waiting for the investigations to conclude, we would never had a clue about this massive cover-up and use of grassroots fees to fund a hush-money account to bury rape accusations. Yeah, rape-enabling culture is far worse off because of the public and government and sponsorship pressure, and would be far better off if everyone just waited for the conclusions of investigations from the above-mentioned institutions. Oh, did I mention that the Hockey Canada "investigation" is designed for character assassination of the plaintiff? I didn't? Huh.

Fourthly and finally, we have Exhibit “E” (no, not “D”, “E”. Pay attention). The “don’t report a rape without a lawyer at your side” tactic. I mean, that sounds like friendly, sensible advice. Right?

Wrong.

It wasn’t friendly, and it isn’t sensible. It’s idiocy, pure idiocy. And by that I mean it’s brilliant. Sheer brilliance. Because the post literally goes on to say “have fun in prison (even if you are totally innocent)”. Like could anything be more idiotic (brilliant), suggesting that someone who reports a gang rape would go to prison, and “even if they are totally innocent”? Like, in the very thread where the mom literally went to the police and reported a gang rape. The very same thread. Remember what I wrote above about the "it's not a hockey problem, it's a society problem" tactic? Yeah, go ahead, scroll up again, I’ll wait. I’m not going anywhere.

All done? Good. Make sure you have an ergonomically designed mouse and keyboard for all the scrolling, metatarsal syndrome is a thing. Well, for people who scroll with their feet, anyway.

So yeah, remember how falsely equating “it’s not a hockey problem it’s a society problem” is a deliberate rape-enabling culture tactic to discourage people from reporting rapes? It may surprise you to learn that lawyers are very expensive, most of us don’t have one on retainer 24/7, most of us probably only have one or two with us from 9 to 5 Mondays through Fridays. So yeah, if I hear about a rape on Friday 6pm, I sure as hell am not saying anything to the police until Monday 9am when I can bring along my constant workday companions, Dewey and Cheetum of the Howe Law Group. I know, right? The obvious next step is to cast doubt on rape claims because they delayed coming forward. That’s not idiotic, that’s brilliant. Brilliant for maintaining rape-enabling culture.

So there are four exhibits, all lettered up.
________________________________________

“But wait,” you say, “all that idiocy” (you say potaytoe, I say potahtoh, you say idiocy, I say brilliance) “is immediately debunked, why does it get re-hashed and spewed across our screens over and over and over and over and over . . . .”

“. . . and over and over and over and over . . . “


“. . . and over and over and over and over . . . “


“. . . and over and over and over and over . . . “


“. . . and over again. Why?” you say.

“Because,” I say.

Because it both deflects and delays. Ideally, the defense of rape-enabling culture hopes to preserve rape-enabling culture in its entirety. In perpetuity. Indubitably. If the constantly re-vomited idiocy (brilliance) changes the subject – or better yet gets the thread closed – it’s a victory for rape-enabling culture. Rape-enabling culture doesn’t fare well when the bright light of scrutiny is applied to it. And by doesn’t fare well I mean it becomes clear how disgusting and absolutely abhorrent it is, in case you might be wondering what I mean.

But failing that – failing deflection and the preservation of rape-enabling culture - each spewal of idiocy (brilliance) needs to be refuted.

Sadly, when falsehoods are repeated often enough without being exposed for the falsehoods they are, they will gain some measure of traction. Traction, not credibility – idiotic (brilliant) falsehoods will never gain any measure of credibility, but it’s moot. Not mute. Moot. Like the Ents. Traction is all the falsehoods need. The more spewal, the more effort that must be re-directed away from actually dismantling rape-enabling culture, and re-directed into refuting the idiocy. Meaning less efforts can be made towards dismantling rape-enabling culture, delaying the time when such an abhorrent culture is finally stamped out.

Brilliant.

You see where this is going, right? The more rape-enabling culture is begun to be dismantled – the more the deflect strategy fails – means the more the delay strategy will be implemented, with its continual spewal of idiocy that will need to be refuted every time it rears its ugly head.

But don’t be dismayed. The spewals – while unlimited in repetition - are limited in variety and predictable, we’ve seen them all and they have all been refuted. Just a quick copy’n’paste of a refutation and boom! Done. Then add a comment to bring the discussion back on track to the title of the thread.

Idiocy. It’s absolutely brilliant.


And totally disgusting.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I have no faith in the London police to properly investigate a bunch of star junior hockey players. We've seen so much corruption in law enforcement over the years and they would have every incentive to keep this quiet and maintain London as this junior hockey destination. The fact that no charges were filed initially is completely unsurprising.