Can Connor McDavid break up the "big 4"?

[VanIslander]

Hasek was in the same breath as Gretzky, Woods, Jordan. Breathtaking sports!

 

[VanIslander]

The NHL's best save percentage in a LONG career average FOR GOOD REASON.

 

[VanIslander]

McD is behind Hasek, hence behind the Big 4.
So. ... sell 6th... Harvey, Bourque, Richard, Roy, etc are in your room. A GREAT place to be!

 

[Bear of Bad News]

He holds the record for consecutive Hasek posts by the same poster in a thread about McDavid, that's for sure.

 

[Professor What]

He holds the record for consecutive Hasek posts by the same poster in a thread about McDavid, that's for sure.

He might have kept the streak going too.

 

[daver]

While acknowledging that McDavid is pacing for a higher career value than Crosby thru 9 seasons but likely doesn't break up the Big 4, I will say that:

Crosby's '08 SCF is similar to McDavid's SCF and is arguably the better comparable given they were both in losing efforts in their first SCFs.

Crosby's 2009 run through three rounds is comparable to McDavid's 2022 run. This may be unfair to not include Crosby's 2009 SCF but it is also unfair to assume what McDavid does if he played in the SCF that year. And Crosby's point totals do not reflect his level of play in the 2009 SCF; most notably in Game 1 and 2 of the SCF; something that is brought up when McDavid's SCF is broken down game by game.

As much as Crosby underwhelmed in the playoffs during his peak, he overwhelmed at age 20-22 and added perhaps his best pound for pound run in 2018 at age 30. His 2016 and 2017 Cup wins confirmed his status as his era's best player.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

This is such malarkey and would be one thing if his play and stats was mere ordinary in the playoffs but he had 40+ points and still drove play in games 6 and 7 so the narrow misplaced focus should be objectively compared to what he did as an individual not some arbitrary team thing.

And sure winning matters but in any all time ranking individual performance matters a hell of a lot more.

Lol. You really think he breaks the top 4 without a cup. Name one single top 4 player in any sport that matters without a championship. And yes mcdavid didnt drive shart the last 2 games and played the worst game of his career in game 7.

 

[GreatGonzo]

While acknowledging that McDavid is pacing for a higher career value than Crosby thru 9 seasons but likely doesn't break up the Big 4, I will say that:

Crosby's '08 SCF is similar to McDavid's SCF and is arguably the better comparable given they were both in losing efforts in their first SCFs.

Crosby's 2009 run through three rounds is comparable to McDavid's 2022 run. This may be unfair to not include Crosby's 2009 SCF but it is also unfair to assume what McDavid does if he played in the SCF that year. And Crosby's point totals do not reflect his level of play in the 2009 SCF; most notably in Game 1 and 2 of the SCF; something that is brought up when McDavid's SCF is broken down game by game.

As much as Crosby underwhelmed in the playoffs during his peak, he overwhelmed at age 20-22 and added perhaps his best pound for pound run in 2018 at age 30. His 2016 and 2017 Cup wins confirmed his status as his era's best player.

So Crosbys 3 points in 7 games shouldn’t reflect his overall performance that playoff run even though he went scoreless in 5/7 games including games 6 and 7, while being a non factor in game 7…..BUT, McDavids 11 points in 7 games reflects that he can’t handle the “big stage,” isn’t a great leader, and can’t get his team to a championship basically single handily….



would love to hear how 19 points in 24 games
with a -2 confirms this. Especially considering the storm that would hit this place if McDavid put up those numbers, and how you would be one of the first to point it out.

Lol. You really think he breaks the top 4 without a cup. Name one single top 4 player in any sport that matters without a championship. And yes mcdavid didnt drive shart the last 2 games and played the worst game of his career in game 7.

You clearly didn’t watch game 7. Remind me how Crosby did in game 7 in ‘09….

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

So Crosbys 3 points in 7 games shouldn’t reflect his overall performance that playoff run even though he went scoreless in 5/7 games including games 6 and 7, while being a non factor in game 7…..BUT, McDavids 11 points in 7 games reflects that he can’t handle the “big stage,” isn’t a great leader, and can’t get his team to a championship basically single handily….



would love to hear how 19 points in 24 games
with a -2 confirms this. Especially considering the storm that would hit this place if McDavid put up those numbers, and how you would be one of the first to point it out.


You clearly didn’t watch game 7. Remind me how Crosby did in game 7 in ‘09….

Im not talking about crosby. Im talking about the top 4 players. Im comparing mcdavid to them

 

[bobholly39]

Im not talking about crosby. Im talking about the top 4 players. Im comparing mcdavid to them

That's a valid point tbh.

McDavid just had one of the greatest playoff runs of all time.

But Lemieux/Gretzky etc probably would have stepped up in game 7.

When you're compared to those 4 - nitpicking and criticizing things like that is fair game.

Hopefully McDavid gets another shot soon.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby's 2009 run through three rounds is comparable to McDavid's 2022 run. This may be unfair to not include Crosby's 2009 SCF but it is also unfair to assume what McDavid does if he played in the SCF that year. And Crosby's point totals do not reflect his level of play in the 2009 SCF; most notably in Game 1 and 2 of the SCF; something that is brought up when McDavid's SCF is broken down game by game.

It is as if you are writing your posts with the hope that someone in the future will read them and think you are saying accurate things.

This business of pretending Crosby's scoreless games somehow "do not reflect his level of play" whereas McDavid's do is yet another double standard in your Crosby campaign.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That's a valid point tbh.

McDavid just had one of the greatest playoff runs of all time.

But Lemieux/Gretzky etc probably would have stepped up in game 7.

Oh yeah for sure - in fact we can just assume it without even looking at the actual history.

No doubt Lemieux "stepped up" in his game 7 in 1989 where the other team scored 3 goals with him on the ice in a 4-1 loss to the hated Flyers.

Or the 1994 game 6 loss where Lemieux somehow managed to be on the ice for 3 goals against vs Washington (or was it 4?).

Or the 1996 game 7 loss against the amazing powerhouse expansion team Florida Panthers led by the illustrious Scott Mellanby where Lemieux managed a powerplay assist while the Panthers scored 2 of their 3 goals with Mario spectating from the ice.

Or the 1997 game 6 against the hated Flyers where Mario somehow managed to be a minus 4 despite scoring an ES point. So your idea of "would have stepped up his game" is being on the ice for 5 goals against?

Or the game 7 win against Buffalo in 2001 in which Lemieux had zero points?

Or the 3 consecutive losses to close out the 2001 Devils series in which Lemieux had a combined 1 assist despite playing 24 minutes per game?

The actual history sure seems mutually exclusive from your assumption that "Mario probably would have stepped up." There are plenty of examples where he didn't despite his playoff sample size being quite small due to Mario's teams missing the playoffs so many times despite playing in an NHL where 16 out of 21 teams made it in every year.

 

[DitchMarner]

Oh yeah for sure - in fact we can just assume it without even looking at the actual history.

No doubt Lemieux "stepped up" in his game 7 in 1989 where the other team scored 3 goals with him on the ice in a 4-1 loss to the hated Flyers.

Or the 1994 game 6 loss where Lemieux somehow managed to be on the ice for 3 goals against vs Washington (or was it 4?).

Or the 1996 game 7 loss against the amazing powerhouse expansion team Florida Panthers led by the illustrious Scott Mellanby where Lemieux managed a powerplay assist while the Panthers scored 2 of their 3 goals with Mario spectating from the ice.

Or the 1997 game 6 against the hated Flyers where Mario somehow managed to be a minus 4 despite scoring an ES point. So your idea of "would have stepped up his game" is being on the ice for 5 goals against?

Or the game 7 win against Buffalo in 2001 in which Lemieux had zero points?

Or the 3 consecutive losses to close out the 2001 Devils series in which Lemieux had a combined 1 assist?

The actual history sure seems mutually exclusive from your assumption that "Mario probably would have stepped up." There are plenty of examples where he didn't despite his playoff sample size being quite small due to Mario's teams missing he playoffs so many times despite playing in an NHL where 16 out of 21 teams made it in every year.

There's also this...



Not his fault his defenseman made such a stupid pass but a rather uninspired effort getting back by Mario there.

But I don't know - it seems like some of the talk in this thread is just to try to twist events into fitting a certain narrative that matches a preconceived notion certain posters have.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

OT winner in canada cup and b2b smytges with 78 points n 2 cups silences all that gibberish

 

[GreatGonzo]

Im not talking about crosby. Im talking about the top 4 players. Im comparing mcdavid to them

So you don’t see the problem with holding something against McDavid that not even your golden Boy didn’t do? Interesting.

Do you have Crosby 5th?

OT winner in canada cup and b2b smytges with 78 points n 2 cups silences all that gibberish

78 points? Where are you getting this?

 

[solidmotion]

Oh yeah for sure - in fact we can just assume it without even looking at the actual history.

No doubt Lemieux "stepped up" in his game 7 in 1989 where the other team scored 3 goals with him on the ice in a 4-1 loss to the hated Flyers.

Or the 1994 game 6 loss where Lemieux somehow managed to be on the ice for 3 goals against vs Washington (or was it 4?).

Or the 1996 game 7 loss against the amazing powerhouse expansion team Florida Panthers led by the illustrious Scott Mellanby where Lemieux managed a powerplay assist while the Panthers scored 2 of their 3 goals with Mario spectating from the ice.

Or the 1997 game 6 against the hated Flyers where Mario somehow managed to be a minus 4 despite scoring an ES point. So your idea of "would have stepped up his game" is being on the ice for 5 goals against?

Or the game 7 win against Buffalo in 2001 in which Lemieux had zero points?

Or the 3 consecutive losses to close out the 2001 Devils series in which Lemieux had a combined 1 assist?

The actual history sure seems mutually exclusive from your assumption that "Mario probably would have stepped up." There are plenty of examples where he didn't despite his playoff sample size being quite small due to Mario's teams missing he playoffs so many times despite playing in an NHL where 16 out of 21 teams made it in every year.

can't believe i'm saying this but you are absolutely right. there are also times that gretzky didn't "step up" by these criteria: vs NYI in 83 (only 4 assists in 4 games), vs calgary in 86 (1 measly assist in game 7), vs montreal in 93 (lost 3 straight OT games). nitpicking at this level is fine but one can take it too far. even the best players get shut down sometimes.

re mcdavid specifically, not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but he contributed to something like 49% of edmonton's goals in the 2024 playoffs. not quite a record iirc (i think gretzky was in on over half at some point) but pretty close, maybe #2. i don't think you can ask for much more than that...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Oh yeah for sure - in fact we can just assume it without even looking at the actual history.

No doubt Lemieux "stepped up" in his game 7 in 1989 where the other team scored 3 goals with him on the ice in a 4-1 loss to the hated Flyers.

Or the 1994 game 6 loss where Lemieux somehow managed to be on the ice for 3 goals against vs Washington (or was it 4?).

Or the 1996 game 7 loss against the amazing powerhouse expansion team Florida Panthers led by the illustrious Scott Mellanby where Lemieux managed a powerplay assist while the Panthers scored 2 of their 3 goals with Mario spectating from the ice.

Or the 1997 game 6 against the hated Flyers where Mario somehow managed to be a minus 4 despite scoring an ES point. So your idea of "would have stepped up his game" is being on the ice for 5 goals against?

Or the game 7 win against Buffalo in 2001 in which Lemieux had zero points?

Or the 3 consecutive losses to close out the 2001 Devils series in which Lemieux had a combined 1 assist?

The actual history sure seems mutually exclusive from your assumption that "Mario probably would have stepped up." There are plenty of examples where he didn't despite his playoff sample size being quite small due to Mario's teams missing he playoffs so many times despite playing in an NHL where 16 out of 21 teams made it in every year.

Yeah this is my issue a lot of times, it’s the constant deification that comes from a hindsight/completion bias. It’s amazing Gretzky and Lemieux didn’t win the Cup every year of their career the way it’s discussed…

 

[Michael Farkas]

McDavid would be given credit for a better game if Skinner didn't give up a bad goal to lose the series...? Good eval goin' here...

I'd take more irrelevant Hasek posts at this point...

 

[MadLuke]

How much talk there is about McDavid not winning after that performance vs Draisaitl not winning with his 2 goals the last 2 round of the playoff, show the gap that was created between the 2.

Not so long ago there was some they are close to each other's in the playoff talk. People expecting him despite Drai injury was putting the bar quite high.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

So you don’t see the problem with holding something against McDavid that not even your golden Boy did? Interesting.

Do you have Crosby 5th?
78 points? Where are you getting this?

Where have you ever seen me say crosby was better than lemieux?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Where have you ever seen me say crosby was better than lemieux?

Ok? I didn’t say that…I asked a simple question. Was it not straight forward enough for you?..

 

[DitchMarner]

McDavid would be given credit for a better game if Skinner didn't give up a bad goal to lose the series...? Good eval goin' here...

I'd take more irrelevant Hasek posts at this point...

@VanIslander, do you think Hasek would have stopped that shot?

 

[wetcoast]

OT winner in canada cup and b2b smytges with 78 points n 2 cups silences all that gibberish

Yet you are the first guy to downplay McDavid like the accession the last 3 playoffs didn't happen?

 

[jigglysquishy]

How much talk there is about McDavid not winning after that performance vs Draisaitl not winning with his 2 goals the last 2 round of the playoff performance, show the gap that was created between the 2.

Not so long ago there was some they are close to each other's in the playoff talk. People expecting him despite Drai injury was putting the bar quite high.

He had some big injuries, but this is also three playoffs in a row where his injuries got him in the series they were eliminated in.

More a load management problem than skill, but still notable.

 

[wetcoast]

How much talk there is about McDavid not winning after that performance vs Draisaitl not winning with his 2 goals the last 2 round of the playoff performance, show the gap that was created between the 2.

Not so long ago there was some they are close to each other's in the playoff talk. People expecting him despite Drai injury was putting the bar quite high.

It's funny that despite Drai people injured some people are still ragging on him.