Can Bedard challenge for Peter Forsbergs record?

[Czechboy]

It will be interesting to see what Bedard does against stronger teams.....

When i watched the WJC years ago, it was always a good test to see what stars could do against Team Canada, who usually had the deepest and most NHL-like players, as competition. When guys like Mogilny and Forsberg dominated against Canada, that was a good sign, in those cases, that those players could be NHL stars.

Imagine if he slices up Sweden? Yikes. It's possible. Not banking on it but his ceiling high.

FTR.. Czechs kept him to 1 point.. that end up being a historic event.lol

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Imagine if he slices up Sweden? Yikes. It's possible. Not banking on it but his ceiling high.

FTR.. Czechs kept him to 1 point.. that end up being a historic event.lol

Loving the success of Czechia so far, rooting for u guys now

 

[Czechboy]

Loving the success of Czechia so far, rooting for u guys now

I have your original posts on screencap dammit.lol

Just kidding. thanks.

In general I honestly get the impression that people want us to succeed and get back to it - when we're not playing them of course. I even read a lot of Canuck posters saying stuff like 'Czechs played great and deserved to win'... it was nice to read. I still think Canada steamrolls to Gold and do not want them play again! A Swede rematch though?

 

[SHLfantasycamp]

Serious question: Is Bedard the best player of All-time? He's the most talented I've ever seen at this age, I can't believe I'm saying that after seeing McDavid. But I couldn't believe I said that about McDavid after seeing Crosby.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Canada has 4 games left if all goes well which it should.

Sweden is tough defensively
The semi's and finals won't be 10-0 victories
Quarters might be a blowout

I say Bedard gets about 8 more points in this tourney, sets many records, gets drafted 1st overall and then gets 50 goals in NHL next year.

I corrected it for you.

 

[KCC]

Serious question: Is Bedard the best player of All-time? He's the most talented I've ever seen at this age, I can't believe I'm saying that after seeing McDavid. But I couldn't believe I said that about McDavid after seeing Crosby.

Best player of all time in terms of what? talent Wise? Because McDavid was just as good as him at that age skill wise. What he has on McDavid at his age is his shot.

 

[daver]

Serious question: Is Bedard the best player of All-time? He's the most talented I've ever seen at this age, I can't believe I'm saying that after seeing McDavid. But I couldn't believe I said that about McDavid after seeing Crosby.

Crosby was clearly ahead as a prospect based on his CHL resume at age 16 and 17. Bedard is as close to McDavid/Crosby as any other prospect in the last 30 years, and it isn't particularly close.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Like I said in another thread - sure, what Bedards doing is awesome, but it’s kinda weird to hype him up as “the next McDavid” just because he can create offends vs Austrias and Germanys U20 teams. Don’t put too much emphasis on how young players perform internationally, we’ve seen so many examples on when that hasn’t translated to the NHL. For example Kappo Kakko was amazing as a junior vs men in the WCH, but look how that turned out.

All I’m saying is, don’t put too much thought into it, just enjoy the ride without putting labels on every player, including Bedard

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Like I said in another thread - sure, what Bedards doing is awesome, but it’s kinda weird to hype him up as “the next McDavid” just because he can create offends vs Austrias and Germanys U20 teams. Don’t put too much emphasis on how young players perform internationally, we’ve seen so many examples on when that hasn’t translated to the NHL. For example Kappo Kakko was amazing as a junior vs men in the WCH, but look how that turned out.

All I’m saying is, don’t put too much thought into it, just enjoy the ride without putting labels on every player, including Bedard

Are you not aware of what he’s been doing outside of the WJC?

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Are you not aware of what he’s been doing outside of the WJC?

Against kids, yes.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Against kids, yes.

ah yes I forgot Connor Bedard is 27

 

[Ben White]

I know you don't want to hear this but what Bedard is doing at 17 is more impressive than what Forsberg did at 19. That doesn't diminish what Forsberg did and how he dominated that year.

Everybody forgets how dominant RNH was in the year of the lockout and he's not even going to make the HHOF- that's how big of an advantage being 2 years older is at this tournament.

No, I don't think bedard is going to beat Forsberg's record this year, but to say Forsberg had tougher competition is just silly. Japan had the worst showing of all time at the tournament that year. Austria has been terrible but Sweden only beat Germany 1-0.

You forget that back then European countries rarely sent any players younger than 19-20 to the NHL. Being 19 y o back then wasn’t “being two years older”, rather the standard age for European teams. Being there at 17 was an exception. Japan was bad but the Germans were relatively strong and the European teams were better than nowadays due to keeping their players longer.

Forsberg had:
4 p vs Canada
5 p vs Finland
5 p vs Russia
4 p vs Czech
2 p vs USA
2 p vs Germany
10 p vs Japan

Bedard this year had 7 vs Austria who seem almost as underwhelming as Japan did back then. I don’t buy the “remove Japan” argument either as the WJC in modern days generally had more teams, aka more underdogs. On top of that most WJC tourneys after the round robin days had like 10 games not 7. Forsberg’s record shouldn’t be downplayed.

 

[Ben White]

Wow so he's absolutely having an all time run so far. Obviously Canada needs to win gold too for the maximum games and the actual prestige of leading team to victory - but if they do, it seems like he's almost for sure going to finish in 2nd place at worst.

Yeah he’s an all time great prospect, however in those days when these records were set, European teams were made up of 19 year olds and some 18 year olds as European countries rarely sent players to the NHL at a younger age (and much less frequently in general. The Eastern European countries had hardly started sending players at all), so it was a lot tougher for 17 y o playing against manly 19 y o to make an impact, and there were all lot fewer of them. I know some of you try to make it out to be “aha these records were set by the ‘oldies’ playing with younger players” but that wasn’t the case at the time.

 

[Czechboy]

I corrected it for you.

Thank you... I assume 80 assists?

 

[Rebels57]

Serious question: Is Bedard the best player of All-time? He's the most talented I've ever seen at this age, I can't believe I'm saying that after seeing McDavid. But I couldn't believe I said that about McDavid after seeing Crosby.

You said this is a serious question but i'm not sure if anyone can actually take it seriously.

 

[traffic cone]

Remove that 10 point game against Japan and Forsberg has 21 points in 6 Games that year.

That’s not how life works.

 

[vippe]

It's going to be hard to score 18 more points against Sweden, and whatever teams they face in the remaining rounds. Stranger things have happened but that's a tall order for anyone, even someone as talented as Bedard.

I know you don't want to hear this but what Bedard is doing at 17 is more impressive than what Forsberg did at 19. That doesn't diminish what Forsberg did and how he dominated that year.

Everybody forgets how dominant RNH was in the year of the lockout and he's not even going to make the HHOF- that's how big of an advantage being 2 years older is at this tournament.

No, I don't think bedard is going to beat Forsberg's record this year, but to say Forsberg had tougher competition is just silly. Japan had the worst showing of all time at the tournament that year. Austria has been terrible but Sweden only beat Germany 1-0.

I am not sure if you saw the 1993 wjc or not but if you did you know that Forsbergs WJC wasnt just impressive because of his point tallies - but because he was so utterly dominant against the other top 6 teams, which Bedard has yet been able to prove himself in.

As for the bolded part, not sure why you are so attached to performance against the worst teams in respective tournament. Forsbergs performance against Japan/Germany and Bedards performance against Austria/Germany is nice for the stats, but hardly a deciding factor in how dominant/impressive a performance has been and why it's very premature to call Bedards performance the most impressive ever.

If Bedard delivers against the top other top 6 teams in the tournament sure it might become the most impressive run of all time, but let him play against them first.

 

[Czechboy]

It's going to be hard to score 18 more points against Sweden, and whatever teams they face in the remaining rounds. Stranger things have happened but that's a tall order for anyone, even someone as talented as Bedard.



I am not sure if you saw the 1993 wjc or not but if you did you know that Forsbergs WJC wasnt just impressive because of his point tallies - but because he was so utterly dominant against the other top 6 teams, which Bedard has yet been able to prove himself in.

As for the bolded part, not sure why you are so attached to performance against the worst teams in respective tournament. Forsbergs performance against Japan/Germany and Bedards performance against Austria/Germany is nice for the stats, but hardly a deciding factor in how dominant/impressive a performance has been and why it's very premature to call Bedards performance the most impressive ever.

If Bedard delivers against the top other top 6 teams in the tournament sure it might become the most impressive run of all time, but let him play against them first.

I think Bedards greatness here will be measured by how many points he gets against the Swedes, US and Finn's.

 

[Bustedprospect]

He didnt do much against the Chech which are probably #2 in this tourney so far. So heading into the ending of this tourney i doubt thing will get easier.

Canada and Bedard got offensive numbers but mainly against poor nations. Their PP are not sustainable even over a tourney like this.

Can he get say 4 points today its somewhat of interesting in a historical perspective. Getting to say 24-25 would be seen as one of the greatest performance of all time. Especially at that age in my opinion.

 

[The Kingslayer]

That’s not how life works.

No shit. I was responding to the fact that that 10 point game against Japan was being used against Forsberg and his record.

 

[Statsy]

I was a hard no on this... but I think I'm moving to the maybe category.

I was a maybe on this... but I think I'm moving to the yes category.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

You forget that back then European countries rarely sent any players younger than 19-20 to the NHL. Being 19 y o back then wasn’t “being two years older”, rather the standard age for European teams. Being there at 17 was an exception. Japan was bad but the Germans were relatively strong and the European teams were better than nowadays due to keeping their players longer.

Forsberg had:
4 p vs Canada
5 p vs Finland
5 p vs Russia
4 p vs Czech
2 p vs USA
2 p vs Germany
10 p vs Japan

Bedard this year had 7 vs Austria who seem almost as underwhelming as Japan did back then. I don’t buy the “remove Japan” argument either as the WJC in modern days generally had more teams, aka more underdogs. On top of that most WJC tourneys after the round robin days had like 10 games not 7. Forsberg’s record shouldn’t be downplayed.

I never downplayed Forsberg's record, I even mentioned that in my first post. Forsberg was two years older than Bedard is right now when he set that record- I was comparing Forsberg's age to Bedard's, not relative to the competition.

Both are dominating their respective tournaments and the fact that Bedard is doing it while being 2 years younger than Forsberg makes it more impressive IMO.

The argument that European teams were stronger back then because they kept their players longer is a weak one and could be offset by the fact that teams like the USA and Finland were generally weaker. Really any argument debating the level of competition between this year and the year Forsberg played is arbitrary.

Bedard already has 3 points against Sweden after the first and they are going into the second with a powerplay.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

It's going to be hard to score 18 more points against Sweden, and whatever teams they face in the remaining rounds. Stranger things have happened but that's a tall order for anyone, even someone as talented as Bedard.



I am not sure if you saw the 1993 wjc or not but if you did you know that Forsbergs WJC wasnt just impressive because of his point tallies - but because he was so utterly dominant against the other top 6 teams, which Bedard has yet been able to prove himself in.

As for the bolded part, not sure why you are so attached to performance against the worst teams in respective tournament. Forsbergs performance against Japan/Germany and Bedards performance against Austria/Germany is nice for the stats, but hardly a deciding factor in how dominant/impressive a performance has been and why it's very premature to call Bedards performance the most impressive ever.

If Bedard delivers against the top other top 6 teams in the tournament sure it might become the most impressive run of all time, but let him play against them first.

I'm not obsessed or focused on the comparison of competition level- I think it's even between eras. I was responding to a post by a user who stated Forsberg played against tougher competition. Whichever side of that argument you're on is heavily biased and subjective.

I agree we need to see Bedard dominate the other teams to have a better tournament than Forsberg, but he's on pace to do it. 3 points already against Sweden and it's the first intermission.

 

[prongertheman9]

He didnt do much against the Chech which are probably #2 in this tourney so far. So heading into the ending of this tourney i doubt thing will get easier.

Canada and Bedard got offensive numbers but mainly against poor nations. Their PP are not sustainable even over a tourney like this.

Can he get say 4 points today its somewhat of interesting in a historical perspective. Getting to say 24-25 would be seen as one of the greatest performance of all time. Especially at that age in my opinion.

I thought he did a lot vs Czechia - unlucky not to have 3 or 4 points

 

[Ben White]

I never downplayed Forsberg's record, I even mentioned that in my first post. Forsberg was two years older than Bedard is right now when he set that record- I was comparing Forsberg's age to Bedard's, not relative to the competition.

Both are dominating their respective tournaments and the fact that Bedard is doing it while being 2 years younger than Forsberg makes it more impressive IMO.

The argument that European teams were stronger back then because they kept their players longer is a weak one and could be offset by the fact that teams like the USA and Finland were generally weaker. Really any argument debating the level of competition between this year and the year Forsberg played is arbitrary.

Bedard already has 3 points against Sweden after the first and they are going into the second with a powerplay.

I know Bedard is a stud and I’m not downplaying him either at all was just sayn for the ones who don’t know about these changes over time.