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Call for sweeping changes?

the reason for me having Richards with us is i believe he needs to play and improve his production if we have any chance of moving him without having to pick up huge money or take it back..
 
Gaborik Kopitar ???
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King ??? Brown
Clifford Shore Nolan
Lewis

DD Muzzin
Sekera McNabb
Amart Greene
Forbort

Quick
Jones
 
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I don't see why. You ask Gaborik what he thinks about playing on RW. He's a natural RW player. If he says yes then you move Pearson to 1LW. Cheaper to look for a 2LW than 1RW. Kings won't have enough cash for a 1RW, 3C, Sekera and whoever else anyway.
 
Knight of the Realm said:
Gaborik Kopitar ???
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King ??? Brown
Clifford Shore Nolan
Lewis

DD Muzzin
Sekera McNabb
Amart Greene
Forbort

Quick
Jones
Click to expand...

I for one think that's a good team. Decent chance that RR comes back. Forbort becomes the young guy moving up and down as needed. I thnk Sekera gets to much money somewhere else. Frankly with the VV thing still ongoing we could end up with his contract out of the blue. Thats a bit to complex.

Funny how quickly things change. All of a sudden we go from deep down in centers to paper thin. Shore is the only prospect that looks decent as a two way center and no one down in the AHL seems to be a top line guy. That missing top line winger is less of an issue to me. Someone with less offensive but can skate is a better combo with the top end talent in Kopitar and Gabs. Lewis could do it if we lose Williams. Franky I think people are underestimating the loss that would be to the depth of the team.
 
Tadite said:
I for one think that's a good team. Decent chance that RR comes back. Forbort becomes the young guy moving up and down as needed. I thnk Sekera gets to much money somewhere else. Frankly with the VV thing still ongoing we could end up with his contract out of the blue. Thats a bit to complex.

Funny how quickly things change. All of a sudden we go from deep down in centers to paper thin. Shore is the only prospect that looks decent as a two way center and no one down in the AHL seems to be a top line guy. That missing top line winger is less of an issue to me. Someone with less offensive but can skate is a better combo with the top end talent in Kopitar and Gabs. Lewis could do it if we lose Williams. Franky I think people are underestimating the loss that would be to the depth of the team.
Click to expand...

Does Forbort require waivers next year?
 
Kurrilino said:
We have a generation goalie, a generation defender,
our top 9 is all 30+ goal scorer plus outstanding defenders
and some of the best utility players.

Would you mind explaining this a little bit more ???
Click to expand...

Guess what? Those things you listed didn't cut it this year. The Voynov situation is no excuse. Calgary went without Giordano (who was MUCH better than Doughty this year) for the second half of the year, and they made it in. If Lombardi doesn't make the team better during the offseason, there's a good chance the Kings will miss the playoffs next year as well. There's a whole lot of dead weight dragging this team down that needs to be cut off (Stoll, Richards, Greene, even Brown)...
 
Whiskeypete said:
<snip>

the obvious
*stoll, williams are gone. i don't think they can and will carry their weight and contracts for another (let alone extended contract) of an 82-game season. if they can let it be elsewhere

*Regehr is back dependent on the Voynov and Greene situation. if Greene gets bought out, then re-sing Robyn without question. nothing more than 2 years though.

*Sekera is re-signed at all costs. must have insurance, should the VV fiasco goes even further south.

*Richards is bought out, or traded and LA retains up to 50% of the cap. he's been a favorite of mine for years, but it is time

* Toffoli re-upped on a bridge, just like Tanner

* Jones re-upped on a bridge

* McBain re-upped

* Shore re-upped

the weird and the wtf
* Brown - seriously? what to do with this? for starters if he stays, the dude needs to work on his skating this summer. i don't get the constant falling and blow outs on the ice from him. does he need to change skates? does he need to change up the radius or hollow on the blades. WTF is going on with his skating?

i still like DB and think he is a valuable asset to the team.


<snip>

* Kopitar. go sleep for 3 months. next season get greedy with the puck and shoot

the re-tool
* seeing talk of the LA - BOS trade scenarios. the AMart for Lucic proposal holds merit, although i'm worried if Voynov doesn't return and Amart is traded what it means to the 3rd pairing.

i would consider an AMart for Krejci trade also, so we shore up the 3C with some skill and speed. i like his game and he is used to playing in a defensive system.

<snip>

rest, re-tool and come back ready to battle for 2015-16
Click to expand...


As a prescription, I agree with virtually all of this, with one exception: if RR and Sekera are both re-signed, I might try to trade Greene (instead of Martinez) as part of the package to lure back a winger or #3C...that way, McBain can be the D-scratch most games:


Doughty/Muzzin
RR/Sekera
McNabb/Martinez
-----------
McBain



"Limbo:" Voynov (if he's cleared, and once he's healed, if the above lineup is working out OK, you trade him, or trade Martinez; whichever brings back more)


This way, the team doesn't have to cross its fingers that Forbort can make something of himself on the big club next season.
 
Omni Owl said:
Guess what? Those things you listed didn't cut it this year. The Voynov situation is no excuse. Calgary went without Giordano (who was MUCH better than Doughty this year) for the second half of the year, and they made it in. If Lombardi doesn't make the team better during the offseason, there's a good chance the Kings will miss the playoffs next year as well. There's a whole lot of dead weight dragging this team down that needs to be cut off (Stoll, Richards, Greene, even Brown)...
Click to expand...

So what exactly are you advocating? You posted just about the same thing a couple of pages ago about how we have a bunch of holes and dead weight; what would YOU do?

To me, our top players didn't perform for whatever reason; bummer. We know they've been able to do it at least twice, so we're not getting rid of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick. Pearson just got a new contract, Jones and Toffoli are reportedly on the way, Gabby is here for all eternity. Let's just pretend EVERYONE ELSE is expendable for sake of your exercise--the problem isn't with our depth per se; it's that our top players failed to perform. I don't think the roster needs as significant an overhaul as some people are pretending in this thread. I think a lot of people are overreacting emotionally. Our "biggest issues' are a top-6 or tweener winger, a 3C, and solidifying a defense with lots of moving parts.
 
Kings need speed.

They also need to see if Shore, Andreoff, and Weal can lock up the #3 and #4 center positions otherwise they will have to sign a UFA, but with the Cap issues, I don't know.

How much room do we have to sign a UFA? I guess it depends on a lot of things...ie MR and Voynov....

Kings are not buying out Greene....lol. They will have a decision with Richards. Greene is tradeable, but I seem the keeping him. 209 hits and an even plus/minus with 9 points...not bad.
 
They actually pretty much played the same way they did in the playoffs last year. A little more loosey goosey, especially in the defensive zone. Giving up goals in bunches. Having to come back in games. Losing leads. They just didn't get the same goals per game production from a lot of the guys. Mostly Williams and Gaborik, who had ridiculous playoffs last year. Doughty and Brown were less this season too. Kopitar, oddly enough, about the same goals per game average. I don't know if that's good or bad anymore.
 
Brad Doty said:
So what exactly are you advocating? You posted just about the same thing a couple of pages ago about how we have a bunch of holes and dead weight; what would YOU do?

To me, our top players didn't perform for whatever reason; bummer. We know they've been able to do it at least twice, so we're not getting rid of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick. Pearson just got a new contract, Jones and Toffoli are reportedly on the way, Gabby is here for all eternity. Let's just pretend EVERYONE ELSE is expendable for sake of your exercise--the problem isn't with our depth per se; it's that our top players failed to perform. I don't think the roster needs as significant an overhaul as some people are pretending in this thread. I think a lot of people are overreacting emotionally. Our "biggest issues' are a top-6 or tweener winger, a 3C, and solidifying a defense with lots of moving parts.
Click to expand...

Trim the dead weight, get a legit 3C, maybe sign a veteran right handed Dman, and perhaps resin Sekera. That's what I would do for starters, but it doesn't really matter because I'm not the GM. Bottom line is, that our top guys need to show up and be better. This year Kopitar and Carter were a regular Thornton and Marleau for us. That's unacceptable. No need to be so salty about my opinion...
 
Omni Owl said:
Trim the dead weight, get a legit 3C, maybe sign a veteran right handed Dman. That's what I would do for starters, but it doesn't really matter because I'm not the GM. Bottom line is, that our top guys need to show up and be better. This year Kopitar and Carter were a regular Thornton and Marleau for us. That's unacceptable. No need to be so salty about my opinion...
Click to expand...

Not salty at all, it was an honest question and I agree with your answer, particularly boldfaced. Just posting complaining about the roster twice without posing any solutions isn't really discussion, that's why I asked.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
As far as re-tooling, roster moves,

They are going to be very limited in what they can do,

I believe they let Williams and Stoll both walk.

They give Brown the chance to reclaim #1 line status, if not, they bring in someone at the deadline.

Depending on who is out there for 3C, (Quick look, I only see three Free agents, Santorelli, Soderberg, and I forget the 3rd name) I believe they give it to Shore/Andreoff and roll with them as #3/#4 centers, they need to play to develop, and they have both shown signs of talent.

As far as defense, Sekera needs to be re-signed, Regehyr, I do on a one, possibly 2 year deal, and only at the right price,

You roll with the following,

Brown - Kopitar - Gaborik
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
King - Shore - Lewis
Clifford - Andreoff - Nolan

Doughty - Muzzin
Martinez - McNabb
Sekera - Greene/Regehr

Quick
Jones
Click to expand...

Wow. After the top two lines, that looks like a horrible lineup. King has been good at times with Carter and Toffoli, but he wont even get 10 goals with Shore and Lewis. Ideally, Shore should be the fourth line center, and we can get a vet that can score 15 goals to play third line center. Not sure who is available via trade.
 
Kurrilino said:
Oh yes really...... time for my blood pressure pills

Best Kings Coach ever is like most healthy fries on the fast food market

- You have a generation defender in Doughty and Goalie in Quick
- Elite talent in Kopitar, Voynov, Carter
- Outstanding players in Brown, Williams, Richards, Toffoli, Pearson,
Muzzin, Sekera.


With these guys, Sutter is struggling to make the playoff since he is here and you try to tell people he is an excellent coach ??????

Just ask yourself again when having in mind, They wouldn't call Tampa back from the locker room after the clock scandal.
Or the Sharks wouldn't hit the post twice before the Kings scored in game 4.

Really we are seeing mediocre hockey at best from a team who should dominate any aspect of the game.

And for him preaching for more goals is almost insulting to me.
His way of taking any creativity out of the game and super simplifying it for opponents defense to keep us from scoring takes any weapons away from them to score....

Again, if you are already coming from the flanks you limit your ways to go from the outside to the inside.
This is freaking hockey minor knowledge... does this sounds like a great coach to you ??????

Just watch Calgary and any other quick team..... they enter the O-zone in the middle forcing the defender in a lateral movement and drop pass to the following player who passes than on the outside while the other 2 players are already in position in the caught defenders back to tip it in......... really it isn't magic.

But no... we attack from the outside, are surprisingly kept on the outside, circling the boards for hours and when running our of options throwing the puck into the crowd in front of the goal where the puck gets deflected over the boards.

And you really call all that great coaching ??????
We just didn't lose scoring by some magic player abilities drop by all of our players at the same time.
We are simply and plain out scouted since Terry "what is Offence" Murray was here.

Every team knows exactly what to do. Leave the guys on the outside alone and tighten it up in front of the goal because they have the time to do it.
And now "Miracle" Sutter is coming and asks the players why they don't score. I actually don't even know what to say.

But i can tell you one thing.

The players look of not caring or the lack of emotions is an exact result of the Terry-Sutter-Formula.
After 2 cups i would show Sutter my favorite fingers playing this ****** hockey style.
I am actually convinced that they are constantly player manager present in Lombardis office asking fro trades.
At least this is what i would do.
Click to expand...

I don't advocate firing Sutter and this seems like an angry rant, which I get, but there is a lot of truth to your post. It is very easy to beat the Kings system Xs and Os. All the Kings do is cycle along the boards (which is safe defensively), fling the puck to the net, and hope for a tip in. Probability wise, this should win games if done properly (See Corsi, Fenwick etc.). But if the opposing team clears the front of the net and just lets the Kings cycle, they wont get scored on.
 
AlphaBravo said:
I don't advocate firing Sutter and this seems like an angry rant, which I get, but there is a lot of truth to your post. It is very easy to beat the Kings system Xs and Os. All the Kings do is cycle along the boards (which is safe defensively), fling the puck to the net, and hope for a tip in. Probability wise, this should win games if done properly (See Corsi, Fenwick etc.). But if the opposing team clears the front of the net and just lets the Kings cycle, they wont get scored on.
Click to expand...

It's Kurrilino.
 
I would also like to mention that the title of this thread really spoke to me and that I just bought a Dyson.
 
Knight of the Realm said:
Gaborik Kopitar ???
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King ??? Brown
Clifford Shore Nolan
Lewis

DD Muzzin
Sekera McNabb
Amart Greene
Forbort

Quick
Jones
Click to expand...

the cap would be something like:

Forwards Signed so Far
1 Kopitar $6.800
2 Brown $5.875
3 Carter $5.273
4 Gaborik $4.875
5 Richards (eat $2.0 in a trade) $2.000
6 King $1.950
7 Lewis $1.525
8 Pearson $1.400
9 Clifford $1.600
10 Nolan $0.950
Subtotal Signed Forwards $32.248
Free Agents/NewFromMinors
$-
Toffoli $1.800
Andreoff $0.900
Shore $1.000
Williams $-
Stoll $-
Weal $0.900

Est Total Forwards $36.848

Defense/Goal Signed so Far
1 Doughty $7.000
2 Voynov traded for draft picks $-
3 Greene $2.500
4 Martinez $4.000
5 Muzzin $4.000
6 McNabb $0.650
7 Quick $5.800


Subtotal Signed Defense $23.950
Free Agents/NewFromMinors
Regehr $-
Sekera $5.000
McBain $-
Jones/Other Backup $1.000
Schultz (hit is 0.850) $-
Forbort (hit is .0.900) $0.900
Miller (hit is 0.603) $-

Est Total Defense $30.850

Signed So Far $56.198
Est. Totals (include free agents) $67.698

Estimated Cap $71.000

Estimated Space on Signed So Far $14.802
Estimated Space on Totals $3.302
 
From above:

You roll with the following,

Brown - Kopitar - Gaborik
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
King - Shore - Lewis
Clifford - Andreoff - Nolan

Doughty - Muzzin
Martinez - McNabb
Sekera - Greene/Regehr

Quick
Jones

cap hit something like this. It's tight, and things need to happen:

Forwards Signed so Far
1 Kopitar $6.800
2 Brown $5.875
3 Carter $5.273
4 Gaborik $4.875
5 Richards (eat $2.0 in a trade) $2.000
6 King $1.950
7 Lewis $1.525
8 Pearson $1.400
9 Clifford $1.600
10 Nolan $0.950
Subtotal Signed Forwards $32.248
Free Agents/NewFromMinors
$-
Toffoli $1.800
Andreoff $0.900
Shore $1.000
Williams $-
New guy $1.000
Stoll $-
Weal $0.900

Est Total Forwards $37.848

Defense/Goal Signed so Far
1 Doughty $7.000
2 Voynov traded for draft picks $-
3 Greene $2.500
4 Martinez $4.000
5 Muzzin $4.000
6 McNabb $0.650
7 Quick $5.800


Subtotal Signed Defense $23.950
Free Agents/NewFromMinors
Regehr $3.000
Sekera $5.000
McBain $-
Jones/Other Backup $1.000
Schultz (hit is 0.850) $-
Forbort (hit is .0.900)
Miller (hit is 0.603) $-

Est Total Defense $32.950

Signed So Far $56.198
Est. Totals (include free agents) $70.798

Estimated Cap $71.000

Estimated Space on Signed So Far $14.802
Estimated Space on Totals $0.202
 
Jason Lewis said:
You can't really believe that right?

Carter and Toffoli, yea there are two.

Kopitar hasn't touched 30 goals since 2009-2010. Brown is not going to get 30 goals again. Gaborik is more than likely a 20-25 guy from here on out, maybe cracks 30 in a good year. Likewise with Williams. Pearson you could probably pencil in for 20 goals.

That's 6. So King, Stoll, Richards/Lewis are 30+ goal scorers?

Kings have two and a half 30 goal scorers.
Click to expand...


I absolutely believe that.

You don't become a 30+ goal scorer by accident in the NHL.
To reach that goal you need the tools and the know how.

Carter, Gaborik are 40+ goal scorer
Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Williams are 30+ goal scorer
Toffoli, Pearson will be 30+ goal scorer in a real hockey system.

This what you get in proven potential.

What Sutter is getting out is

40 goal scorer:
Carter 28 goals
Gaborik 26 goals

30 goal scorer:
Brown 11 goals
Williams 18 goals
Richards 5 goals
Kopitar 16 goals


That means that absolutely everyone from our top 9 stopped scoring.

Other fun facts:
-Kopitars and Browns stats are decreasing since 2009-2010 when Terry Murrays system was punched into the team.
-Everyone else from our top 9 had their best career stats when not playing under Sutter or Murray but constantly decrease under their command.

Now let's compare the players way to play....

Kopitar, Williams, Richards are very quick and agile playmaker with great vision.
Brown, Toffoli, Pearson, Gaborik and Carter are lightning fast sniper.

So what does Miracle Sutter does to the team.
Our way to play the game is to take the speed and creativity out of the game on purpose.
We enter the O-zone at the sides, stay there and grind the opponent at the walls and when running out of options we throw the puck into the crowd in front
of the goal.
Sounds like a perfect match for fast agile and smart player types right ????


And now you want me to believe that our Sutter has absolutely nothing to do what is happening to our team
despite we have never been a contender and just made the playoff during our cup runs having incredible lucky things happen.
You know something like the game clock stops for 2 seconds and Tampa is called back from the locker rooms and we win in overtime.
 
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