Call for sweeping changes?

[KINGS17]

100% correct. Great post.

In Lombardi's defense, he could not even foresee Brown/Richards dropping off this badly. I am not going to trash Lombardi cause he couldn't see the future.

What is important now, is that Lombardi works hard to correct the Roster, and get Sutter the correct players he needs.

I think Dean and his staff may be the hardest working front office in the NHL. There will be improvement, or steps toward it made in the off season.

I hope you're wrong about Weal on the wing, but I think you have a good point with your comparisons to Loktionov and Vey. Vancouver fans seem to hate Vey's game at center though.

 

[cyclones22]

While I agree the offense was hindered by Richards and Brown providing little offense, the Kings gave up 2.42 GA/G. That's their worst team defense performance in 5 seasons. That's still 7th best in the league, but that's not good enough for a team that's offensively challenged. I had very little faith in the boys holding 3rd period leads this season, when it was almost a lock in previous seasons.

 

[damacles1156]

I think Dean and his staff may be the hardest working front office in the NHL. There will be improvement, or steps toward it made in the off season.

I hope you're wrong about Weal on the wing, but I think you have a good point with your comparisons to Loktionov and Vey. Vancouver fans seem to hate Vey's game at center though.

The Canucks are making the same mistake with Vey, the Kings made.

It really does boggle my mind. The poor kid doesn't have a Center skill set.

 

[damacles1156]

While I agree the offense was hindered by Richards and Brown providing little offense, the Kings gave up 2.42 GA/G. That's their worst team defense performance in 5 seasons. That's still 7th best in the league, but that's not good enough for a team that's offensively challenged. I had very little faith in the boys holding 3rd period leads this season, when it was almost a lock in previous seasons.

Agreed, Eight Third period blown leads (More than the last three years combined) did not help the play-off odds.

 

[kenito7]

I don't. That's three holes all of which are eminently fixable. It's not like we are looking for a 1c or 1d or an entire 3rd line like some teams. DL only needs to make tweaks. Look how many freaking moves the ducks made just prior to the deadline! THAT is a lot of holes and no confidence in your roster.

I agree with you on what is needed but disagree that these are tweaks. How do we go about these tweaks with no room in the salary cap and uncertainty over Voynov and Sekera? As for the Ducks they have more cap space and more prospects than the Kings.

 

[kenito7]

100% correct. Great post.

In Lombardi's defense, he could not even foresee Brown/Richards dropping off this badly. I am not going to trash Lombardi cause he couldn't see the future.

What is important now, is that Lombardi works hard to correct the Roster, and get Sutter the correct players he needs.

I agree with so much of what you have written today and I certainly agree that Lombardi deserves all the credit in the world and I would never trash him but the Richards contract is on Lombardi because he should have used the compliance buyout. Besides the obvious financial benefit I think it would have sent a much needed message that no ones job is safe unless you produce.

 

[Kurrilino]

You do know Kopitar scored that Career year under Terry Murray's/Lombardi's system right? (the same system basically the Kings still play).

His second career year was under Sutter(with a tweaked Terry Murray/Lombardi system). This is also the Third time in Kopitar's career he will have 48+ assist under Sutter/Murray. Kopitar is not a problem, Neither is the system the Kings play.

Do some research man. You embarrass yourself nightly on this board, with zero thought going into your posts. Trying to help you out, trust me.

Terry Murray used up a lot of time to punch the system into the Kings because it is the exact opposite of the former coach.
So yes i am aware Kopitar had his career year under Murray.

The flaw with your assists stat is that Kopitar has mostly secondary assists. He completely lost the ability to set up plays.
And yes the System is the problem when a player like Kopitar decreases most, as closer he comes to his prime.
Right now he should have 35 goals and 90 points which i guarantee he would have on another team.

But i don't even know what to say when you tell me the coach and the system is not wrong if you have an allstar team constantly struggling making the playoff.
If that means i am a moron so be it.

 

[Face Wash]

While I agree the offense was hindered by Richards and Brown providing little offense, the Kings gave up 2.42 GA/G. That's their worst team defense performance in 5 seasons. That's still 7th best in the league, but that's not good enough for a team that's offensively challenged. I had very little faith in the boys holding 3rd period leads this season, when it was almost a lock in previous seasons.

You can't lose your 2nd line D pairing and think it's not going to have an affect on your D. Especially 2 of your top PMDs. It's impossible. I'm impressed the Kings were as good as they were defensively this season.

Dean has a lot of issues this offseason and he may have to unload a "core" guy with a bad contract to get what he needs.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Its really simple why scoring dried up.

With Pearson injured.

Brown/Richards not providing anything basically. That is going to dry up your scoring.

Say Brown/Richards pot Ten more goals between them, that's literally Five more apiece.

Say some of those came during those 15 OT losses that were one goal games.. The Kings are a 100 point team, and off they go.

Folks, Kopitar/Carter are not good enough to carry the Kings offensively all season long. They are not Crosby/Malkin, who by the way may miss the playoffs as well due to Pitt not having Depth at all.

You need Depth scoring in this league. You can't afford to pay 12 million dollars to two guys that can't muster 20 goals or 40 points between them. That kills your team, it killed the Kings offense this year.

BINGO! Great post.

I wrote this back in February. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jaso...stent-Scoring-The-Key-for-the-Kings/179/66478

The Kings had much fewer consistent scorers. Had trouble synching up for whatever reason. When one group was up, one was down. If Carter and Toffoli were hot, Kopitar and Gaborik were ice cold. And throughout the whole thing Richards, Stoll, and Brown were MIA. Pearson going down was an extreme shot to the depth, on top of what was already kind of a delicate balance of offense. With that kind of lack of consistent scoring across the lineup, those one goal games and low scoring games can get away from you.

But again, as you state, if this team gets even a quarter of those OT/SO games to a W then this team is in the playoffs no questions asked.

There isn't really any grand change needed. This team was just as good as they were last year, they just had a few minor things go awry.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I agree with you on what is needed but disagree that these are tweaks. How do we go about these tweaks with no room in the salary cap and uncertainty over Voynov and Sekera? As for the Ducks they have more cap space and more prospects than the Kings.

Ducks have their own internal cap, so it is difficult to determine how much "real" cap they have.

 

[Face Wash]

BINGO! Great post.

I wrote this back in February. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jaso...stent-Scoring-The-Key-for-the-Kings/179/66478

The Kings had much fewer consistent scorers. Had trouble synching up for whatever reason. When one group was up, one was down. If Carter and Toffoli were hot, Kopitar and Gaborik were ice cold. And throughout the whole thing Richards, Stoll, and Brown were MIA. Pearson going down was an extreme shot to the depth. With that kind of lack of consistent scoring across the lineup, those one goal games and low scoring games can get away from you.

But again, as you state, if this team gets even a quarter of those OT/SO games to a W then this team is in the playoffs no questions asked.

There isn't really any grand change needed. This team was just as good as they were last year, they just had a few minor things go awry.

And if you don't get it from your lower lines you have to get it from your D and they were average at best. Drew Doughty for all his skill and ice time...7 goals is unacceptable..and lets face it, the 7th goal was GIFT.

Depth used to be the Kings' strength, now...not so much.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Terry Murray used up a lot of time to punch the system into the Kings because it is the exact opposite of the former coach.
So yes i am aware Kopitar had his career year under Murray.

The flaw with your assists stat is that Kopitar has mostly secondary assists. He completely lost the ability to set up plays.
And yes the System is the problem when a player like Kopitar decreases most, as closer he comes to his prime.
Right now he should have 35 goals and 90 points which i guarantee he would have on another team.

But i don't even know what to say when you tell me the coach and the system is not wrong if you have an allstar team constantly struggling making the playoff.
If that means i am a moron so be it.

You said it, nobody else did. Everyone else was thinking it.

Regardless, you want to say a flaw with Kopitar's assist stats, is that they are secondary assists, let me ask you this, what happens if Kopitar doesn't make that first pass?

The system that is a problem, won 2 Cups, and had a WCF final in three years, so you think that's a problem?

Really?

 

[KingPuckChoo]

i really hope that we can somehow package Greene & Jones, and get something back for them

 

[Trolfoli]

The system that is a problem, won 2 Cups, and had a WCF final in three years, so you think that's a problem?

Really?

Yes... Life is not static... you need to make adjustments and fix issues when other teams figure out how to exploit parts of your system... you don't have to throw it out, but make adjustments.... This season, and part of last, the Flames found that by having at least 4 men back, protecting the house, keeping the Kings to the outside limits them to bad angle shots and the defensive personnel can easily clear the puck. Then sit back and wait for a bad pinch and break out... Sutter needs to make an adjustment.... but the final game against the Flames was just a repeat of the earlier games... well with the Kings getting fewer shots....

But i don't even know what to say when you tell me the coach and the system is not wrong if you have an allstar team constantly struggling making the playoff.
If that means i am a moron so be it.

We have all seen the team lead the playoffs in goals and goal/game as recently as last year. We all know they are capable... So why is the offense ranked around 20th consistently.... I wonder what Sutter has to say on the issue.... drive to the net? Ok driving to the net isn't a bad thing.... but when you broke out of the d-zone slowly and the other team has 4+ guys in the defensive zone by the time you get there.... there just isn't a whole lot that's going to be accomplished by going 1 on 3-4 to get to the net....

I would also like to add that of the teams still in the playoff race there are 3 with a worse offense then the Kings.... that would be Montreal, Boston, Pittsburgh... Boston/Pittsburgh are on the fringe and get to find out in the last game who makes it in.... Montreal however has a worse offense (measured in G/game) then the Kings and is second in the standings, league wide, with 1 game to go.

The difference between Kings/Boston/Pittsburgh/Montreal.... this year Montreal is #1 in GA/Game.... the lesson would be if the offense of the team is around 20th in the league you are on the fringe of the playoffs unless you have the number 1 defense... (maybe top 3 would do)

Now looking at the D next year... is it going to be one of the top 3 defenses in the league? If not the Kings better find a way to score some goals.... or pray Quick enables god mode again.

 

[KingsFan7824]

And yes the System is the problem when a player like Kopitar decreases most, as closer he comes to his prime.
Right now he should have 35 goals and 90 points which i guarantee he would have on another team.

It's been pointed out before that prime scoring years for the vast majority of players is in the early to mid 20's.

The only thing that can be guaranteed is that you can't guarantee he would have 35 goals and 90 points on another team, or playing for another coach.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

]Yes... Life is not static... you need to make adjustments and fix issues when other teams figure out how to exploit parts of your system..[/B]. you don't have to throw it out, but make adjustments.... This season, and part of last, the Flames found that by having at least 4 men back, protecting the house, keeping the Kings to the outside limits them to bad angle shots and the defensive personnel can easily clear the puck. Then sit back and wait for a bad pinch and break out... Sutter needs to make an adjustment.... but the final game against the Flames was just a repeat of the earlier games... well with the Kings getting fewer shots....

Agree with the bolded, I just don't agree that teams "figured" it out, the teams knew this 3 years ago, the Kings were just able to execute,

There are only, maybe 6 systems in hockey, all the teams know them, it's being able to execute them that is the difference between winning and losing, the Kings didn't execute, that was the problem, not the style or system they played.

 

[damacles1156]

Agree with the bolded, I just don't agree that teams "figured" it out, the teams knew this 3 years ago, the Kings were just able to execute,

There are only, maybe 6 systems in hockey, all the teams know them, it's being able to execute them that is the difference between winning and losing, the Kings didn't execute, that was the problem, not the style or system they played.

Finally someone understands what I have been saying for damn near two years now.

There is no super duper system in Hockey(the systems are like 80 years old), there is only good players that execute a system to 100% perfection. Also bad rosters that screw up the system constantly.

No one had a problem with the (system) in the 2012-2014(playoffs). If they did, they sure were silent about it.

 

[damacles1156]

It's been pointed out before that prime scoring years for the vast majority of players is in the early to mid 20's.

The only thing that can be guaranteed is that you can't guarantee he would have 35 goals and 90 points on another team, or playing for another coach.

Agree.

Another stupid myth people keep bringing up about production.

You can probably count the number of NHL players that hit Prime production passed 28(years of age) on two hands in the last 25 years.

IE, it doesn't happen(often, if at all), stop parroting that garbage folks; that all NHL players hit their prime 28+ years of age. They don't, not even remotely close to the truth. DO SOME research on the subject for once.

A good example is Wayne #99 the great one. He was around 22/23 year of age when he hit 92 goals in a season. Then 24/25/26 for his 200p seasons(maybe younger). After 27/28 years of age, Wayne never had another career year. That's the best player to ever play the game.

 

[Model62]

End the shootout.

 

[cyclones22]

Finally someone understands what I have been saying for damn near two years now.

There is no super duper system in Hockey(the systems are like 80 years old), there is only good players that execute a system to 100% perfection. Also bad rosters that screw up the system constantly.

No one had a problem with the (system) in the 2012-2014(playoffs). If they did, they sure were silent about it.

Exactly. Execution has always been key. Part of that has been lack of roster upheaval. Call it luck that for the most part the Kings have been able to introduce new parts into this machine over the previous 3 seasons on their own terms. Not so this season. Coupled with the degradation of some other parts and this finely tuned machine doesn't execute like we're accustomed to.

 

[Trolfoli]

Finally someone understands what I have been saying for damn near two years now.

There is no super duper system in Hockey(the systems are like 80 years old), there is only good players that execute a system to 100% perfection. Also bad rosters that screw up the system constantly.

No one had a problem with the (system) in the 2012-2014(playoffs). If they did, they sure were silent about it.

Sutter's system is slow.... it lacks the ability to break into the top half the league in offense. When coupled with one of Lewis/King/Brown on each of the top 3 lines the offense grinds to a halt. This puts a huge amount of pressure on the defense. This will lead to the Kings being on the fringe of the playoffs... Some years they will miss them... some they'll squeak by.

Some other posters have mentioned that it is ridiculous for this team with all it's talent to miss the playoffs.... They are right. The team needs more out of Sutter.

Edit: This Sutter thing doesn't really matter... the Kings will be lucky to make the playoffs next year with all the turnover. Sutter will retire in a couple years. They should just go ahead and replace him at this point because by the time the team is ready to compete in the playoffs again Sutter will pretty much be gone. May as well just get the new coach up to speed as the team finds it's new center.

 

[Trolfoli]

End the shootout.

I know right... this will solve all the problems... so 4v4 the Kings are bad at.... then 3v3... I can't ****ing wait to see Greene out there 3v3. If anyone doubts that Sutter will throw Greene out 3v3 they are delusional.

 

[damacles1156]

Sutter's system is slow.... it lacks the ability to break into the top half the league in offense. When coupled with one of Lewis/King/Brown on each of the top 3 lines the offense grinds to a halt. This puts a huge amount of pressure on the defense. This will lead to the Kings being on the fringe of the playoffs... Some years they will miss them... some they'll squeak by.

Some other posters have mentioned that it is ridiculous for this team with all it's talent to miss the playoffs.... They are right. The team needs more out of Sutter.

Edit: This Sutter thing doesn't really matter... the Kings will be lucky to make the playoffs next year with all the turnover. Sutter will retire in a couple years. They should just go ahead and replace him at this point because by the time the team is ready to compete in the playoffs again Sutter will pretty much be gone. May as well just get the new coach up to speed as the team finds it's new center.

How many times do I have to say it before people understand it. Sutter doesn't have a system. He is coaching a modified Terry Murray / Lombardi organization WIDE system. Now Sutter had some input , made some tweeks. But the foundation and base of the system is the same one Terry Murray/Lombardi put in place.

Its from top down, the Monarchs play the exact same system. Once Sutter is gone, the Kings will play exactly the same way they do now. You understand that now ? You do yes?

 

[regulate]

The franchise is on solid ground. No need for major changes. Let's see who we can sign in our free agent group, sort out the Voynov situation, and gear up for next year.

The reality is this is a solid playoff team without the 3-15 OT record.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Sutter is more of a motivational speaking coach...Payne and Davis do all the work..if Sutter decides to retire or leave I don't think we will miss a beat with John Stevens, he's been here for awhile and respected.

In terms of the roster...I hope Weal, Shore, and Andreoff are given the chance at the 3rd and 4th line center positions. Maybe Kings move Weal to the right wing? He shoots right.

Gaborik-Kopitar-Weal
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-Shore-Lewis
Clifford-Andreoff-Nolan

Kings don't spend that much and add some youth and speed.