C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) V [Mod warning in OP]

[JacobimMugatu]

Just for personal knowledge, how serious do powerlifters take overhead press? I know its not a part of the 3 main powerlifting movements but do you use it to increase posterior and anterior deltoid strength/size? Also, do you consider rag press (most people call this behind the neck overhead press) to be too dangerous? I've been doing it for over a year now without pain and it seriously hits the posterior deltoids/neck. I find regular overhead press to be inferior because there are so many exercises that hit the anterior deltoids.

OHP is something where people have very mixed views on it. I know Jim Wendler advocates using OHP as a main movement and said that him taking the OHP seriously really helped out his bench. I also know some guys barely OHP/when they do, do it as a lighter accessory movement. Andrey Malanichev who is widely considered to be one of the greatest lifters of all time, never overhead presses.


I personally would never behind the neck press (and I've trained with some pretty high level lifters, and none of them do it either), but I know some can do it problem free. I've never tried them personally (well other than doing some Klokov presses/in a snatch grip) but to me for the average lifter, the risk isn't worth the reward. If you can do them and remain injury free then more power to you though. Do you train them heavy or do you use it as a higher rep thing?

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Alright back to Nylander please lol

 

[JacobimMugatu]

Alright back to Nylander please lol

Ok Mr. Moderator!

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Ok Mr. Moderator!

 

[JacobimMugatu]

Theoretically speaking if the Leafs were guaranteed a top C prospect this upcoming draft, and only 1 of the 2 of Nylander/Marner were to be needed to be kept at C, I wonder who it would be. If the plan wasn't to make Nylander play C I feel like he'd be NHL ready at wing for the start of this season. No way the Leafs currently have 6 wingers better than him

Edit: for the sake of it let's say Leafs picking 2nd with Chychrun going 1st

 

[hamzarocks]

Theoretically speaking if the Leafs were guaranteed a top C prospect this upcoming draft, and only 1 of the 2 of Nylander/Marner were to be needed to be kept at C, I wonder who it would be. If the plan wasn't to make Nylander play C I feel like he'd be NHL ready at wing for the start of this season. No way the Leafs currently have 6 wingers better than him

Edit: for the sake of it let's say Leafs picking 2nd with Chychrun going 1st

i see our future top 6 as nylander, marner, kapenen, kadri(depends could be replaced) brown(he is a top 6 prospect but we could have someone else here like johnson, or another prospect) and jvr(depends could be replaced). I doubt we end up drafting top 3 next year but if we do i say we draft the puljujarvi, the guy was the best player from the 2016 class at the juniors this year, he had no points but had like 30 shots in 5 games and like 4 or 5 posts. he was dominant and has a lot of ovechkin in his game. While he probably does not become that good the guy can shoot and move through people his size and skill would compliment both marner and nylander very well.

 

[Shwaguy*]

i see our future top 6 as nylander, marner, kapenen, kadri(depends could be replaced) brown(he is a top 6 prospect but we could have someone else here like johnson, or another prospect) and jvr(depends could be replaced). I doubt we end up drafting top 3 next year but if we do i say we draft the puljujarvi, the guy was the best player from the 2016 class at the juniors this year, he had no points but had like 30 shots in 5 games and like 4 or 5 posts. he was dominant and has a lot of ovechkin in his game. While he probably does not become that good the guy can shoot and move through people his size and skill would compliment both marner and nylander very well.

If Matthews is on the board and Chychrun gone you 100% gotta take Matthews. Even if Chychrun is available you almost certainly take Matthews (Personally if we get the #1 pick I'm a proponent of selling Matthews to Arizona for Chychrun+King's Ransom)

 

[Kadri43*]

OHP is something where people have very mixed views on it. I know Jim Wendler advocates using OHP as a main movement and said that him taking the OHP seriously really helped out his bench. I also know some guys barely OHP/when they do, do it as a lighter accessory movement. Andrey Malanichev who is widely considered to be one of the greatest lifters of all time, never overhead presses.


I personally would never behind the neck press (and I've trained with some pretty high level lifters, and none of them do it either), but I know some can do it problem free. I've never tried them personally (well other than doing some Klokov presses/in a snatch grip) but to me for the average lifter, the risk isn't worth the reward. If you can do them and remain injury free then more power to you though. Do you train them heavy or do you use it as a higher rep thing?

That is interesting that he never does OHP. Does he then do more isolation type movements to build the deltoids? I imagine to be that good he must do something?

I've heard many people say that its not worth it. I love doing them (my favourite exercise outside of squats) so I do the movement 1-2 a week. I have done them for high singles but its usually in the 75-85% (10-6 reps). I also do them right until failure which considered dangerous.

Do you almost exclusively train your compound movements in the 1-5 rep range and then supplement other exercises with more hypertrophy rep ranges?

I kinda just started a massive hypertrophy type program and do squats, bench press and OHP Monday (25% then, 50%, 75% 100% and adjusted 100% of the 75% max (so 10 rep days hence 75% of 1 RM)) Wednesday (25% then 50%, 75%, 100% then adjusted 100% of 85% - so 6 rep max) and Friday (25%, 50%, 75%, 100% and 100% adjusted of 80%- so based off 8 rep max). Because the rep ranges aren't in the 1-5 range, it doesn't destroy the CNS. People say "oh you gotta wait 72 hours" but I get 4 days extra a month for each lift . I've been gaining 5-10 pound increases in squats biweekly and 5 biweekly on OHP and bench. Its based off of old Soviet style research that Louie Simmonds (guessing you know who he is if you are a powerlifter) constantly references. Its called super training but its not the super training gym. Any powerlifter should look into it for both hypertrophy, strength and strength potential.

 

[Woll Smoth]

OHP is something where people have very mixed views on it. I know Jim Wendler advocates using OHP as a main movement and said that him taking the OHP seriously really helped out his bench. I also know some guys barely OHP/when they do, do it as a lighter accessory movement. Andrey Malanichev who is widely considered to be one of the greatest lifters of all time, never overhead presses.


I personally would never behind the neck press (and I've trained with some pretty high level lifters, and none of them do it either), but I know some can do it problem free. I've never tried them personally (well other than doing some Klokov presses/in a snatch grip) but to me for the average lifter, the risk isn't worth the reward. If you can do them and remain injury free then more power to you though. Do you train them heavy or do you use it as a higher rep thing?

I can confirm.

Weak shoulders
Bench stalled
Added OHP to shoulder routine
Bench skyrocket
Behind the neck isn't worth the stress on your body IMO

 

[JacobimMugatu]

That is interesting that he never does OHP. Does he then do more isolation type movements to build the deltoids? I imagine to be that good he must do something?

I've heard many people say that its not worth it. I love doing them (my favourite exercise outside of squats) so I do the movement 1-2 a week. I have done them for high singles but its usually in the 75-85% (10-6 reps). I also do them right until failure which considered dangerous.

Do you almost exclusively train your compound movements in the 1-5 rep range and then supplement other exercises with more hypertrophy rep ranges?

I kinda just started a massive hypertrophy type program and do squats, bench press and OHP Monday (25% then, 50%, 75% 100% and adjusted 100% of the 75% max (so 10 rep days hence 75% of 1 RM)) Wednesday (25% then 50%, 75%, 100% then adjusted 100% of 85% - so 6 rep max) and Friday (25%, 50%, 75%, 100% and 100% adjusted of 80%- so based off 8 rep max). Because the rep ranges aren't in the 1-5 range, it doesn't destroy the CNS. People say "oh you gotta wait 72 hours" but I get 4 days extra a month for each lift . I've been gaining 5-10 pound increases in squats biweekly and 5 biweekly on OHP and bench. Its based off of old Soviet style research that Louie Simmonds (guessing you know who he is if you are a powerlifter) constantly references. Its called super training but its not the super training gym. Any powerlifter should look into it for both hypertrophy, strength and strength potential.

I'll pm you to avoid having this thread get too sidetracked. Going out for a bit but I'll msg you later,

 

[Semantics]

I find regular overhead press to be inferior because there are so many exercises that hit the anterior deltoids.

As long as he can OHP at least 34.5 lbs it's all good.

 

[Orfieus]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...r-or-william-nylander-the-leafs-best-prospect

Good read. Personally I don't care who is better the Leafs are a better team with them in our system.

 

[VainGretzky]

If Matthews is on the board and Chychrun gone you 100% gotta take Matthews. Even if Chychrun is available you almost certainly take Matthews (Personally if we get the #1 pick I'm a proponent of selling Matthews to Arizona for Chychrun+King's Ransom)

One of those players are critical imo. We need a big name future franchise player to attract top ufa's in the future.

 

[D0ctorCool]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...r-or-william-nylander-the-leafs-best-prospect

Good read. Personally I don't care who is better the Leafs are a better team with them in our system.

Can't really fault the logic there.

 

[cheeeko]

I hope he gets some games in at the start of the season.

I actually think that (pending his showing at camp) based on what he's done before, he should be in the NHL.

He may not be immediately successful, but he just seems to learn quickly. He got the AHL down pretty quickly. (Now I know it's debatable how much more he could learn in the AHL, not saying this with 100% certainty.)

I know there's been a lot of talk about seasoning the prospects, especially since Babcock got here, but I wonder if all these forwards we've brought in are there in part to push Nylander.

Our roster is bad. Our managent and coaching wants to win, of course.

Anyway, what I'm saying is do people think if Nylander has a great camp-or even just a good one-do they keep him up to let him learn the pro game/to inject some offensive creativity into the lineup?

 

[Leafidelity]

Just want to say I'm terrified for Willies flow now that Lou is on board.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Just want to say I'm terrified for Willies flow now that Lou is on board.

I think Shanahan understands the benefits of flow and how it can have a positive effect on how the team performs. Don't worry too much. I've heard some rumours that Nylander and Marner have been sent to train with Jagr to increase flow.

 

[Stephen23]

Just want to say I'm terrified for Willies flow now that Lou is on board.

Maybe to give himself a better shot at making the team Willie will get a hair cut to reflect that of his new GM?

 

[snizzbone*]

Coach decides who makes team.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I hope he gets some games in at the start of the season.

I actually think that (pending his showing at camp) based on what he's done before, he should be in the NHL.

He may not be immediately successful, but he just seems to learn quickly. He got the AHL down pretty quickly. (Now I know it's debatable how much more he could learn in the AHL, not saying this with 100% certainty.)

I know there's been a lot of talk about seasoning the prospects, especially since Babcock got here, but I wonder if all these forwards we've brought in are there in part to push Nylander.

Our roster is bad. Our managent and coaching wants to win, of course.

Anyway, what I'm saying is do people think if Nylander has a great camp-or even just a good one-do they keep him up to let him learn the pro game/to inject some offensive creativity into the lineup?

I think he and Marner will get nine, before being sent down.

I say they will have to play their way onto the big team, and the first 10-20 games mean nothing. Percy and Kozun never made it past that mark, injuries or no.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Coach decides who makes team.

You might not like how that turns out, either. Babcock gets really weird really fast. He's going to latch onto some relatively unskilled defensive guys and play them to death, just you watch. Babcock hockey is about control, and he prefers to control the game with grinding defensive play.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think he and Marner will get nine, before being sent down.

I say they will have to play their way onto the big team, and the first 10-20 games mean nothing. Percy and Kozun never made it past that mark, injuries or no.

Have a feeling we wait to give Nylander his 9 til after the deadline, makes more sense to toll his contract and season him at center. This way we can call him up anytime and not worry about burning a year on his ELC. Nylander will have to play insanely well to beat out Marner for a 9 game sample as once we send Marner down we can't bring him up mid-year.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...r-or-william-nylander-the-leafs-best-prospect

Good read. Personally I don't care who is better the Leafs are a better team with them in our system.

I'd say Rielly is on par with both IMO. He flies under the radar for whatever reason.

 

[Woll Smoth]

I'd say Rielly is on par with both IMO. He flies under the radar for whatever reason.

Well Nylander and Marner have yet to play in the NHL. Rielly has 2 seasons under his belt and is no longer considered a prospect

 

[LeafGrief]

I think he and Marner will get nine, before being sent down.

I say they will have to play their way onto the big team, and the first 10-20 games mean nothing. Percy and Kozun never made it past that mark, injuries or no.

Have a feeling we wait to give Nylander his 9 til after the deadline, makes more sense to toll his contract and season him at center. This way we can call him up anytime and not worry about burning a year on his ELC. Nylander will have to play insanely well to beat out Marner for a 9 game sample as once we send Marner down we can't bring him up mid-year.

I doubt that either of them will see time with the Leafs this year, unless they are here to stay. Maybe after the trade deadline with the depleted roster, but I doubt it.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/o...bas-discusses-prospect-development-philosophy

Dubas: I think that for us, it runs two-fold. We don't want our players going up to the Leafs before they're ready, and we don't want them shuttling up and down. We want players to be called up to the Leafs when they're young and on the first two years of their entry-level contracts ONLY when they prove that they can be a Leaf, all the time.

We don't want players going up and then coming down. We saw last year with Stuart Percy and Sam Carrick, they go up, and they come back down, and it really rattles the players' confidence. Even though it's a joyful experience to play your first NHL game, to make the team and get recalled, it gets your psyche out of order a little bit.

And I think that's on us, it's not on the players. We have to be the ones making sure we're doing what's right by the players. So for us, if players are developing along with the Marlies, players that are starting here [in Orlando] will be developing along with here... and it's a whole domino effect that rolls down.

I have a lot of trust in Anthony's ability to develop, that when a player is ready to come up to the Marlies, he's ready. And in the Marlies, when they're ready for Mike Babcock. So, there are three stages of development, even though there are many micro-stages within those that are vital. But we're very happy with the program we have in place now.