C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) V [Mod warning in OP]
- Thread starter JawandaPuck
- Start date
The team isn't going to be in contention with Nylander on his ELC either way. It anything it allows the team. to sign him to his 2nd deal before he has an extra year of improvement. Just my opinion at least
Lots of major stars burned years off their ELC while not in contention. Toews and Kane come to mind right away.
oh and
hamzarocks
Registered User
hes pretty big now, no way is he a little player(even if he was i dont see how that was bad). This added muscle should help him out more he's gotten a lot bigger and so has kadriLots of major stars burned years off their ELC while not in contention. Toews and Kane come to mind right away.
oh and
over the past couple of months. With the importance of conditioning and so many commited guys im sure marner will be bulking up soon(not so much that he loses his great speed but to help him win battles more). We have a hard working team in nylander, marner, rielly, kadri etc.
Kadri43*
Registered User
Don't ever judge how "big" a person is by the size of their upper body. I want to see his lower and upper back, his hamstrings and his gluts. I want to see how much his can low and high bar squat, with and without a box. I want to see how much he can deadlift. I guess a bench press or overhead press wouldn't be bad either. The point is, people put way, way, way to much emphasis on size around the upper body when its the gluts, lower back, abdomens and legs that are important. The size of his traps or his arms are pretty irrelevant.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Yeah and they were also a 20th place team the first year of the ELCs.
Point is you don't keep players down in the minors if they are way too good for it. That can be just as bad as rushing players. Contract status should also play zero part in if they play or not.
Stephen23
Registered User
And why break the Marlies run when he will be so heavily relied upon. The first callups should be guys like Carrick, Leivo, etc
glucker
Registered User
Wouldn't be surprised if he spent the season in the AHL working on being a center, and then have him and Marner step in at the same time behind Kadri in 2016/17
VictorLustig
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- Feb 8, 2012
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Wonder what next years team is gonna look like if all these prospects are kept in the AHL. You can't send Nylander, Brown & Marner down yet another year, even Kapanen should be ready. That's a lot of inexperience brought up to the big team at once, gotta think Nylander and/or Brown will get a real taste this season.
Diatomic
Mitch Matthewlander
I think Nylander spends time in the AHL as a center till the trade deadline, then he comes up and gets some NHL experience.
Marner plays in the CHL the whole year as a center
They both come up full time in 2 years but one of Nylander/Marner are given center duties on the leafs and another is given winger time (whether its permanent or temporarily will be seen).
I'm excited
glucker
Registered User
Look at all the one-year deals they signed. Seems pretty clear what they're planning on doing.
Nylander has only played a half a season, not even, in North America. Kapanen, only 11 games. Brown I can see getting a shot, along with Leivo. There's no reason to believe all those players will be considered ready next year, either. Nylander and Marner are highly likely, but Kapanen could be left to brew a bit longer.
glucker
Registered User
If the marlies are pushing for the playoffs(and they should be) I don't think you see Nylander up. It's better to have him as part of that push, and being in a winning environment.
You're right, though. It's kinda comical how much stock people put into random photos of players, i.e. judging Marner/Bracco's height from a picture clearly taken on an angle that would make it impossible to judge.
Hope fully its similar to the Tampa situation. Where they develop Nylander, Marner, Kap, Harrington etc etc then have 5-6 guys ready at the same time.
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
Kadri43*
Registered User
I do not understand the comments from my post. Ask any strength and conditioning coach and they will tell you that explosive sports like hockey require 3 types of strength: 1) absolute strength- divided into eccentric (the negative rep), concentric (the positive rep) and static strength - the absolute u can lift without time constraints 2) speed strength- usually tested in the 30-50 % of the 1 rep max range and the exact moment between eccentric and concentric movements. 3) explosive strength - the recruitment and firing of muscle fibers from a static movement (0 movement) to firing on all cylinders. These 3 types of strength are involved in any powerlifting movement and especially the box squat, pause squat any deadlift and I guess less important compound movements like bench press and overhead press. These movements train your CNS and builds strength and some size in your lower body. These types of exercises and human kinetic applications will make a player "big" and strong. Looking at how much upper body size or weight he has is almost irrelevant for judging if he is strong or capable enough. The size of the upper body to judge strength and size is the biggest myth in hockey and life.
Don't judge if a young hockey player is ready by looking at the size of his upper body. You are going to want to see how strong and how big his gluts, hamstrings and quads are. You also can't judge how strong his core is by looking at his "abs".
This post is relevant to every post that judges a player by his size. Having a big and/or cut chest or arms does not really equate to overall strength.
Don't judge if a young hockey player is ready by looking at the size of his upper body. You are going to want to see how strong and how big his gluts, hamstrings and quads are. You also can't judge how strong his core is by looking at his "abs".
This post is relevant to every post that judges a player by his size. Having a big and/or cut chest or arms does not really equate to overall strength.
Jyrki Lumme
Generational User
- Mar 5, 2014
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You obviously know what you're talking about, I'm actually a powerlifter that's trained with one of the top S&Cs around here who also trains hockey/rugby players. Here is my take on the topic. I agree with you on almost everything, but there's one point that you may have missed (and tbh I hadn't really thought of until now). When you look at Nylanders physique, what's impressive and telling is absolutely not the size of his upper body (which really isn't big, just no longer small).. it's the amount of progression that was made.
From your post, it's made obvious that you have a general understanding of the compound movements primarily used in strengthening these athletes, and know that in terms of strengthening, the focus is primarily on the lower body/core. Generally, and I say generally because there can always be exceptions (although I doubt this is one of them), people that train like this make significantly more progress to their lower body than upper body in terms of muscular development. He's not training for a beach body, he's training to be a NHL hockey player, yet the upper body made that much progression. To me that makes me that tells me that more than likely, he's also made significant progress to his legs (which judging by this pic from the combine, needed it)
BlueBaron
Registered User
Leafidelity
Existentially Drifting
To nip this in a bud this is impossible to prove and will go absolutely nowhere.
I can have an opinion "XXXX was down too long"
to which you say, "XXXX was never that good, that's why he didn't take the next step"
Seen this time and time again and never goes anywhere (and I'm somebody that believes that you can be kept down too long).
I think if you're a player that belongs in the NHL, you're not really going to be able to progress playing against weaker competition for too long. I think you need to be pushed by your competition rather than just being able to destroy it for years.
Kadri43*
Registered User
You obviously know what you're talking about, I'm actually a powerlifter that's trained with one of the top S&Cs around here who also trains hockey/rugby players. Here is my take on the topic. I agree with you on almost everything, but there's one point that you may have missed (and tbh I hadn't really thought of until now). When you look at Nylanders physique, what's impressive and telling is absolutely not the size of his upper body (which really isn't big, just no longer small).. it's the amount of progression that was made.
From your post, it's made obvious that you have a general understanding of the compound movements primarily used in strengthening these athletes, and know that in terms of strengthening, the focus is primarily on the lower body/core. Generally, and I say generally because there can always be exceptions (although I doubt this is one of them), people that train like this make significantly more progress to their lower body than upper body in terms of muscular development. He's not training for a beach body, he's training to be a NHL hockey player, yet the upper body made that much progression. To me that makes me that tells me that more than likely, he's also made significant progress to his legs (which judging by this pic from the combine, needed it)
Good post; I respect power lifters a heck of a lot more than "upper body gym bros". My best friend is the strength and conditioning coach for varsity sports and he has me reading anatomy textbooks and reading up on Louie Simmonds, the 5/3/1 program, Soviet Union training etc... I'm not an expert but I would say I know more than most amateur lifters.
I think you bring up a good point. If his upper body made that much progress than he must have put a whole heck of a lot of emphasis on the lower body for his upper body to grow. His trainers are obviously top-notch (then again, what was the Leafs strength and conditioning coach doing when he let Luke Schenn put on all that weight) so I doubt they would allow him to have hypertrophy arm curl day. They have him doing box squat, box deadlifts (Louie Simmonds invention I think), resistant bands to build explosive strength and to increase the 1 rep max, pause squats, pause-band-box deadlifts (lol-I used to do this combination while a bunch of wannabe lifting experts stopped what they were doing to see wtf I was up to) etc...
Just for personal knowledge, how serious do powerlifters take overhead press? I know its not a part of the 3 main powerlifting movements but do you use it to increase posterior and anterior deltoid strength/size? Also, do you consider rag press (most people call this behind the neck overhead press) to be too dangerous? I've been doing it for over a year now without pain and it seriously hits the posterior deltoids/neck. I find regular overhead press to be inferior because there are so many exercises that hit the anterior deltoids.
