C/W Brad Lambert (2022, 30th, WPG) Part 3

[Oddbob]

Scheifele is five years older and he's not a better player. Is Wheeler better than Laine as well? Laughable.


What have I made up?

You're inferring there is a bias against players from a certain place being the reason they aren't doing well.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Scheifele is five years older and he's not a better player. Is Wheeler better than Laine as well? Laughable.


What have I made up?

Scheifele is currently better, in his prime Wheeler was better as well.

Laine's best season was as a 19 year old, really sad. I had such high hopes for him after that season.

 

[ffh]

Noor Scheifele nor Wheeler is as good as Laine, period.
Ehlers and Connor, congratulations. Two first round picks your organization was able to keep and develop.
At the end of the day, if this keeps on going the Jets will never be close to becoming a contender. Why try to insist anything else?

Perhaps Vesalainen just "sucked" but I have a hard time to believe he had any less talent than others in your organization.
Winning both gold and silver with younger national teams and also being one of the most contributing players in those team.
19 points in 14 WJC-18 games. Debuting in a young age in a foreign country and a good 37 league such as SHL.
6 points in 5 games at WJC's. 13 points in 22 games for the moose 18/19.
I guess my point is that I'm right on this. You just don't have the best organization for young talents and I don't understand why someone needs to get b*tthurted about that fact?

Laine sucks best thing the jets ever did was trade him. 9 mill to ride on Johnny's coattails. Because on his own he can't do squat. We all now know that aho was the driver on those junior teams and Laine and pool party were along for the ride. When he can drive a line like scheifele or wheeler let us know.

 

[Oddbob]

No I'm not. I'm stating your organization are pretty useless when it comes to developing talents. But I guess you have a hard time reading between the lines.
Now you know so you can stop creating your own truths yourself bud.

Not a Jets fan.

 

[Svedu]

Scheifele is currently better, in his prime Wheeler was better as well.

Laine's best season was as a 19 year old, really sad. I had such high hopes for him after that season.

Prime Wheeler was and lasted what? Two seasons? And he is twelve years older... What did Wheeler ever win with the Jets?
Also, he played with Scheifele, not Little. But I guess you have simple answers to everything.

 

[Oddbob]

Not a Jets fan.

What is funny about that?

 

[tbcwpg]

Noor Scheifele nor Wheeler is as good as Laine, period.
Ehlers and Connor, congratulations. Two first round picks your organization was able to keep and develop.
At the end of the day, if this keeps on going the Jets will never be close to becoming a contender. Why try to insist anything else?

Perhaps Vesalainen just "sucked" but I have a hard time to believe he had any less talent than others in your or others organization.
Winning both gold and silver with younger national teams and also being one of the most contributing players in those teams.
19 points in 14 WJC-18 games. Debuting at a young age in a foreign country and a good league such as SHL.
6 points in 5 games at WJC's. 13 points in 22 games for the moose 18/19.
I guess my point is that I'm right on this. You just don't have the best organization for young talents and I don't understand why someone needs to get b*tthurted about that fact?


Wow, everything is black or white in life and in this world? You are just making a bigger fool out of yourself.
"I and others", do you need backup?
And who said anything about being bias? You? I just stated that the Jets are not that good at developing their talents. Why do you get so sad?

Scheifele is better than Laine right now. Wheeler, not better than Laine now, but at his peak he had seasons Laine will struggle to have, but I think Laine could get to that point eventually.

Ehlers, Connor, Scheifele was a 1st round pick, Morrissey, Jacob Trouba. All 1st round picks that developed just fine.

Vesalainen just didn't work. He's struggling in Sweden right now isn't he? He looked bad for the Jets at all levels. At the NHL you can't really force a player to develop into an everyday player at that level. He had more talent than others in the Jets organization, which is why he got call ups and others at the AHL level did not, but he still did absolutely nothing with that time. That's on him. If his name was McPherson instead of Vesalainen I don't think you'd be defending him.

World Junior success doesn't translate to professional success. Playing against 20 year olds and underdeveloped teenagers is a lot different than against the world's best.

I don't think the Jets have a poor record with Finnish players - I think the Finnish players for the most part have not been good enough to be NHL regulars. Niku, Vesalainen etc. Laine wasn't a development situation. Heinola, you'll get no disagreement from me. He's playing tonight so maybe it's the start of something.

As for Lambert, I'm not dissatisfied with him so far. He's having an up and down season which I'd expect from anyone his age playing pro hockey in a new country, whether he's played in a men's league in Europe before or not.

 

[Svedu]

Scheifele is better than Laine right now. Wheeler, not better than Laine now, but at his peak he had seasons Laine will struggle to have, but I think Laine could get to that point eventually.

Ehlers, Connor, Scheifele was a 1st round pick, Morrissey, Jacob Trouba. All 1st round picks that developed just fine.

Vesalainen just didn't work. He's struggling in Sweden right now isn't he? He looked bad for the Jets at all levels. At the NHL you can't really force a player to develop into an everyday player at that level. He had more talent than others in the Jets organization, which is why he got call ups and others at the AHL level did not, but he still did absolutely nothing with that time. That's on him. If his name was McPherson instead of Vesalainen I don't think you'd be defending him.

World Junior success doesn't translate to professional success. Playing against 20 year olds and underdeveloped teenagers is a lot different than against the world's best.

I don't think the Jets have a poor record with Finnish players - I think the Finnish players for the most part have not been good enough to be NHL regulars. Niku, Vesalainen etc. Laine wasn't a development situation. Heinola, you'll get no disagreement from me. He's playing tonight so maybe it's the start of something.

As for Lambert, I'm not dissatisfied with him so far. He's having an up and down season which I'd expect from anyone his age playing pro hockey in a new country, whether he's played in a men's league in Europe before or not.

No, incorrect.
Trouba was a much bigger talent than what he eventually became in your organization. At the time he was up there with Seth Jones or even better but he never reached his full potential with the Jets, quite sad.
So... That's totally false.

Forget Finnish players, I mostly mean overall.

There is a reason some talents have a bit easier to translate in organizations like the Canes, Avalanche etc, compared to Flyers, Jets, Predators and so on.
It's not all about the talent nor the player.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

After the WJC - he should be sent to the WHL.

Give him a prominent offensive role on a really good Seattle team that will go quite far in the playoffs.

Let him play against kids his age again and dominate his age group - something he hasn’t done in a few years. Let him have Fun playing the game again.

 

[ffh]

Prime Wheeler was and lasted what? Two seasons? And he is twelve years older... What did Wheeler ever win with the Jets?
Also, he played with Scheifele, not Little. But I guess you have simple answers to everything.

Wheeler 900 points in 1075 games yeah what has he done. He played like 7 years with little. No clue what you're saying.

 

[Svedu]

Scheifele is better than Laine right now. Wheeler, not better than Laine now, but at his peak he had seasons Laine will struggle to have, but I think Laine could get to that point eventually.

Ehlers, Connor, Scheifele was a 1st round pick, Morrissey, Jacob Trouba. All 1st round picks that developed just fine.

Vesalainen just didn't work. He's struggling in Sweden right now isn't he? He looked bad for the Jets at all levels. At the NHL you can't really force a player to develop into an everyday player at that level. He had more talent than others in the Jets organization, which is why he got call ups and others at the AHL level did not, but he still did absolutely nothing with that time. That's on him. If his name was McPherson instead of Vesalainen I don't think you'd be defending him.

World Junior success doesn't translate to professional success. Playing against 20 year olds and underdeveloped teenagers is a lot different than against the world's best.

I don't think the Jets have a poor record with Finnish players - I think the Finnish players for the most part have not been good enough to be NHL regulars. Niku, Vesalainen etc. Laine wasn't a development situation. Heinola, you'll get no disagreement from me. He's playing tonight so maybe it's the start of something.

As for Lambert, I'm not dissatisfied with him so far. He's having an up and down season which I'd expect from anyone his age playing pro hockey in a new country, whether he's played in a men's league in Europe before or not.

Also, my main focus was on Heinola. Because I've seen what he can accomplish on ice against his peers. No matter if the opponent were Canada, US or Sweden. This kid completely dominated the ice. He was on same level as Powers etc, without the skating and dynamics but his IQ and skill was elite.

Niku was never that type of talent from the beginning, my point with him was that he did well or decent with the moose but the Jets could never find a spot for him. If that was only on him or both the Jets and him? Who knows.

Vesalainen was not on Heinolas level but clear first round type of talent and even if he was bad or not, the Jets clearly were unsuccessful with him and in their role of developing him into a top6-9 player which he clearly had the potential to become.

As for Lambert? It's already started a bit questionable. In his case I'm on the opposite side, I believe they should've sent him to the WHL. To see if he's even able to become a weapon against other youth players and start rebuilding him from there.
That's my point, I just don't see the vision from the Jets organization with their talents.

 

[Huffer]

(2016)
Laine (WPG)
Puljujärvi
Juolevi
Borgstrom

(2017)
Heiskanen
Välimäki
Vaakanainen
Vesalainen (WPG)
Jokiharju
Tolvanen

(2018)
Kotkaniemi
Kupari

(2019)
Kakko
Thomson
Heinola (WPG)

(2020)
Lundell

(2022)
Kemell
Lambert


WPG has taken 3 Fins in the 1st round since 2016. Laine turned out well, Vesalainen was given a lot of opportunity on the Moose and didn't light up the AHL, and didn't have the skating for the NHL. Heinola is right where a lot of other players from his draft are, which is trying to break into the NHL. But when you still don't need waivers, and your NHL team has some depth in your position, you might need to wait.

Question is, are all the other teams who drafted basically everyone else but Heiskanen and Lundell terribly run organizations as well? lol. And that's just the Fins, what about all the other 1st round busts? All terribly run organizations everyone! lol.


This thread needs to get back to its other nonsense where an 18 year old Lambert can't play a game and not have his whole future decided already.

 

[Svedu]

(2016)
Laine (WPG)
Puljujärvi
Juolevi
Borgstrom

(2017)
Heiskanen
Välimäki
Vaakanainen
Vesalainen (WPG)
Jokiharju
Tolvanen

(2018)
Kotkaniemi
Kupari

(2019)
Kakko
Thomson
Heinola (WPG)

(2020)
Lundell

(2022)
Kemell
Lambert


WPG has taken 3 Fins in the 1st round since 2016. Laine turned out well, Vesalainen was given a lot of opportunity on the Moose and didn't light up the AHL, and didn't have the skating for the NHL. Heinola is right where a lot of other players from his draft are, which is trying to break into the NHL. But when you still don't need waivers, and your NHL team has some depth in your position, you might need to wait.

Question is, are all the other teams who drafted basically everyone else but Heiskanen and Lundell terribly run organizations as well? lol. And that's just the Fins, what about all the other 1st round busts? All terribly run organizations everyone! lol.


This thread needs to get back to its other nonsense where an 18 year old Lambert can't play a game and not have his whole future decided already.

The thing is, your organization needs to pick the talent they need. Heinola has clearly shown his talent and what he could become.
So if you don't have a spot for him? Pretty damn dumb to pick him and waste a pick in the first place?

And I can't take you serious after your post either. I'm not talking about Heinolas number, I'm talking about his actual performances, his talent. He was superior against good competition.

Thomson was pure garbage so your post doesn't mean anything, it only gives me the indication you've never seen them play.

Borgström was clearly a weird pick from the beginning.
Kakko didn't get the best coach from the beginning and later on he's not been able to reach his full potential nor meet the expectations.

Puljujärvi was clearly a disappointment. I think mostly it was because of himself, personality, actual talent level etc. But in no way was Oilers the best organization for him to come to. If that is a long shot for you? Then let it be.

Lundell was always elite just like Heinola and that's my point. Every hockey fan who followed Finland u-20 and Liiga could witness there was something special in him no matter if he got picked at 15th or at third. Much more than Kotkaniemi for example.
Kotkaniemi never had Lundells talent from the beginning.
Just like I don't think Esa Lindell has or had the same talent as Heinola has, even if he was good at the same age as well.

The nationality isn't my focus here, it's the actual talent and what you do with it.
Necas could be an example, I was never surprised that he would eventually become very good because he could always fly out there and was able to create on his own etc. The talent was always there, but In a bad organization? Who knows, Oilers and Sabres have ruined quite some talents back in the day and I just don't feel like the Jets are doing the best job now either.

If you want me to compare to Flyers then? The problem with the Flyers is more the scouting aspect of everything. I just don't believe they pick the best talents from the beginning and that's why they are struggling so much. The main reason that is.
There is a difference between ruining talent and choosing less talented players.

 

[tbcwpg]

Also, my main focus was on Heinola. Because I've seen what he can accomplish on ice against his peers. No matter if the opponent were Canada, US or Sweden. This kid completely dominated the ice. He was on same level as Powers etc, without the skating and dynamics but his IQ and skill was elite.

Niku was never that type of talent from the beginning, my point with him was that he did well or decent with the moose but the Jets could never find a spot for him. If that was only on him or both the Jets and him? Who knows.

Vesalainen was not on Heinolas level but clear first round type of talent and even if he was bad or not, the Jets clearly were unsuccessful with him and in their role of developing him into a top6-9 player which he clearly had the potential to become.

As for Lambert? It's already started a bit questionable. In his case I'm on the opposite side, I believe they should've sent him to the WHL. To see if he's even able to become a weapon against other youth players and start rebuilding him from there.
That's my point, I just don't see the vision from the Jets organization with their talents.

One, the Jets are widely considered by many around the league to be one of the better draft and develop teams, so I don't think your take that they're not great at turning 1st rounders into players is correct.

I agree about Heinola. Two coaches now though have not liked something about him. I think he has a good shot at playing a long NHL career, hopefully it's with the Jets.

Sometimes 1st rounders don't work. I'm confident that Vesalainen have not made any of the 32 NHL teams based on what I saw of him. You can't turn everyone into gold. He was a good draft prospect but it didn't work. That happens. Given what I saw of him, I put that far more on Vesalainen than I do the Jets.

I'd rather have had Lambert in the WHL too but I think based on the way his WHL team is built, he wouldn't have been the top focus on that team and I think the Jets felt that the benefit of being in the WHL is diminished there. Also, the AHL team is in Winnipeg as well, so you can keep a closer tab on his development than if he were in Seattle.

 

[Svedu]

One, the Jets are widely considered by many around the league to be one of the better draft and develop teams, so I don't think your take that they're not great at turning 1st rounders into players is correct.

I agree about Heinola. Two coaches now though have not liked something about him. I think he has a good shot at playing a long NHL career, hopefully it's with the Jets.

Sometimes 1st rounders don't work. I'm confident that Vesalainen have not made any of the 32 NHL teams based on what I saw of him. You can't turn everyone into gold. He was a good draft prospect but it didn't work. That happens. Given what I saw of him, I put that far more on Vesalainen than I do the Jets.

I'd rather have had Lambert in the WHL too but I think based on the way his WHL team is built, he wouldn't have been the top focus on that team and I think the Jets felt that the benefit of being in the WHL is diminished there. Also, the AHL team is in Winnipeg as well, so you can keep a closer tab on his development than if he were in Seattle.

I respect and appreciate your analysis of the situation. Thank you. You give me the impression of being able to problematize and not simplify everything.

 

[Huffer]

The thing is, your organization needs to pick the talent they need. Heinola has clearly shown his talent and what he could become.
So if you don't have a spot for him? Pretty damn dumb to pick him and waste a pick in the first place?

And I can't take you serious after your post either. I'm not taking about Heinolas number, I'm talking about his actual performances. He was superior against good competition.

Thomson was pure garbage so your post doesn't mean anything, it only gives me the indication you've never seen them play.

Borgström was clearly a weird pick from the beginning.
Kakko didn't get the best coach from the beginning and later on he's not been able to reach his full potential nor meet the expectations.

Puljujärvi was clearly a disappointment. I think mostly it was because of himself, personality, actual talent level etc. But in no way was Oilers the best organization for him to come to. If that is a long shot for you? Then let it be.

Lundell was always elite just like Heinola and that's my point. Every hockey fan who followed Finland u-20 and Liiga could witness there was something special in him no matter if he got picked at 15th or at third. Much more than Kotkaniemi for example.

So after saying the Jets are terribly run, and hate Fins, you move the goalposts now and the other Fins that busted did so because of "reasons" and not because of a terrible organization? Sure.....

As for your other "points", no, good teams don't strictly draft for need. These are 17 year old kids, and you draft players based on what you think they might be in 4 or 5+ years. Obviously the Jets were and are high on Heinola or they wouldn't have drafted him. He's played well on the Moose, and will be getting a shot on the Jets. It could have been earlier, but the Jets have depth in that spot.

I'm not going to respond to your other petty insults.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

No I'm not. I'm stating your organization are pretty useless when it comes to developing talents. But I guess you have a hard time reading between the lines.
Now you know so you can stop creating your own truths yourself bud.

Damm right. Jets are so bad at developing Finns into elite NHL players.
Selanne could have the better than the highest scoring NHL player that Finland produced if he did not been drafted by the Jets and stuck with their organization early in his career
If Selanne was drafted and developed elsewhere he could have broken Gretzky’s records.
Jets ruin Selanne’s career

 

[Svedu]

So after saying the Jets are terribly run, and hate Fins, you move the goalposts now and the other Fins that busted did so because of "reasons" and not because of a terrible organization? Sure.....

As for your other "points", no, good teams don't strictly draft for need. These are 17 year old kids, and you draft players based on what you think they might be in 4 or 5+ years. Obviously the Jets were and are high on Heinola or they wouldn't have drafted him. He's played well on the Moose, and will be getting a shot on the Jets. It could have been earlier, but the Jets have depth in that spot.

I'm not going to respond to your other petty insults.

I never said you hate finns. I just stated that I wouldn't want to se Finland's best talents to get drafted by your organization at this very moment, no. Is that an insult? How?
And yeah, I don't hold the Jets organization as one of the 15 best out there. Is that anything groundbreaking?

My point exactly, they have depth in that spot and seem unwilling to give him the opportunity to play in a top2 role. So? Not the best pick for them so far, no matter how you want to see it.

Insults?

 

[Svedu]

Damm right. Jets are so bad at developing Finns into elite NHL players.
Selanne could have the been the highest scoring NHL player that Finland produced if he did not been drafted by the Jets and stuck with their organization early in his career
If Selanne was drafted and developed elsewhere he could have broken Gretzky’s records.
Jets ruin Selanne’s career

Oh, did Selänne play these last 5-10 years?

Should we speak about Bobby Hull and Hawerchuk while we are at it? Come on man.
You could just as easily mention Flyers with Lindroos and Leclair and how their organization is a completely different story as of today.

 

[Huffer]

I never said you hate finns. I just stated that I wouldn't want to se Finland's best talents to get drafted by our organization at this very moment, no.
And yeah, I don't hold the Jets organization as one of the 15 best out there. Is that anything groundbreaking?

My point exactly, they have depth in that spot and seem unwilling to give him the opportunity to play in a top2 role. So? Not the best pick for them so far, no matter how you want to see it.

Insults?

Plenty of NHL people hold the Jets organization in high regard in terms of drafting and developing. A lot of players will always not pan out, in every organization.

Why do the Jets need to "give" Heinola a top 2 role? He hasn't clearly beaten the other defensemen ahead of him yet. The Jets are clearly using the fact that Heinola still does not need to clear waivers to their advantage. And judging by the results on the Jets this year, they clearly have made the right choice. Now the Jets have had 2 injuries on D, Heinola is called up and will play. They have their cake, and get to eat it too by having a young Heinola (and Chisholm, but I guess you don't care about him because he's not Finnish) ready to be the next wave with Samberg and Stanley.

Next year, if the Jets decide and can move some salary on D like Schmidt, Dillon, or Pionk, having Heinola ready to step in and play with his lower contract dollars will be exactly what they need, especially when they are looking at some new contracts coming up for some bigger names.

This is a marathon, not a sprint, and there are actual real factors involved such as contracts, waivers, etc.

And just FYI, I've been a big Heinola booster. I've actally watched him on the Moose, and want him to get his shot on the Jets. But there is no conspiracy to keep him down, it's just good management at this exact time. It does suck a little for Heinola at the moment, but they have also done their best to bring him up sometimes even if he doesn't play to get NHL money.

 

[gifted88]

What the hell am I reading?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I'm predicting he is Seattle bound after WJC

 

[Svedu]

Scheifele, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, Hellebuyck, Lowry and Perfetti are all drafted and developed by the Jets. Totally useless.

Lol good grief.

Oh, i see... And how far has that and those players took your organization? Any Stanley finals for you guys?

Pretty funny actually, those players are good. But as is it for now? No one is top10 in their position in my books and has never been. Besides a goalie, wow... Good job Jets.

While we are at it, how many successful europeans have your organization drafted and had these last 5-8 years? Besides Ehlers that is.
Any swedes? Finns? Czechs? Slovaks?

 

[Svedu]

Wheeler 900 points in 1075 games yeah what has he done. He played like 7 years with little. No clue what you're saying.

Yeah buddy, Wheeler is also 12 years older than Laine and yeah... Laine is better than Wheeler at the same age, further questions on that? Also, Laine has already reached 2/5 of Wheelers production being that much younger, so your point was what?
Well, sorry t break it for you... But Little was a bit younger when he played with Wheeler and again, how come Laine is performing more than decent when Roslovic is centering his line, huh?

 

[Riggins]

Can Finnish homerism be confined to one thread somewhere else? This is insufferable.

So how's Lambert doing?