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C Nolan Patrick - Brandon Wheat Kings, WHL (2017 Draft)

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landy92mack29 said:
He'd go #2. If he was a winger then 2-4 range but him being an elite 200 ft Center separates him from the Finns.
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His offense doesn't suggest he's an "elite 200 ft centre". Maybe next season it will. So far he looks to be, at best, a Reinhart-level prospect...and I don't think Reinhart would be guaranteed to go second in this draft.

Nolan's play hasn't separated him from the Finns this season. He's a centre and better defensively while displaying none of their offensive potential so far.
 
sbtatter said:
Another goal and assist tonight. Up to 7th in league scoring. 9 goals and 6 assists in 6 games so far in Feb. Seven of those goals were at even strength, which is impressive because it's so hard to score goals even strength in the WHL.
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Exactly. Kid will be a force. I think he will likely need another year after he gets drafted in the WHL but will likely be ready by the time he's 19.
 
UsernameWasTaken said:
His offense doesn't suggest he's an "elite 200 ft centre". Maybe next season it will. So far he looks to be, at best, a Reinhart-level prospect...and I don't think Reinhart would be guaranteed to go second in this draft.

Nolan's play hasn't separated him from the Finns this season. He's a centre and better defensively while displaying none of their offensive potential so far.
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I think numerous teams would take him simply for the fact that he is a two-way center and outscoring literally all other CHL players at even strength per 60 in the current draft class in a lower scoring league. It's more along the lines of what would you rather have...
A high end 30-40 goal offensive winger with elite potential or a 60-70 point two-way center with elite potential? I think most team without much center depth take the two-way center every time, some might take him just because he is a coveted asset to have.
 
DaximusPrimus;113729105[B said:
]I think numerous teams would take him simply for the fact that he is a two-way center and outscoring literally all other CHL players at even strength per 60[/B] in the current draft class in a lower scoring league. It's more along the lines of what would you rather have...
A high end 30-40 goal offensive winger with elite potential or a 60-70 point two-way center with elite potential? I think most team without much center depth take the two-way center every time, some might take him just because he is a coveted asset to have.
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I don't think boiling things down to even strength per 60 is how most teams scout. If it were then Tkachuk would be considered the best player in the OHL...and he's not.

Your comparison between the Finnish players' goal scoring ability vs Patrick's point scoring ability is unusual.

Patrick's "elite potential" remains to be seen. And the Toews comparisons I've seen elsewhere are generous to say the least. Right now he looks like a Reinhart-level prospect, maybe not as smart. He has another year to go, so we'll see.

DaximusPrimus said:
Exactly. Kid will be a force. I think he will likely need another year after he gets drafted in the WHL but will likely be ready by the time he's 19.
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Patrick is a late birthday, so his draft year will be his U19 and his draft + 1 year will be his U20 year. It would be pretty odd for a U19 1st OA to need another year of junior, but it's more important that players develop at their own rate.
 
UsernameWasTaken said:
I don't think boiling things down to even strength per 60 is how most teams scout. If it were then Tkachuk would be considered the best player in the OHL...and he's not.

Your comparison between the Finnish players' goal scoring ability vs Patrick's point scoring ability is unusual.

Patrick's "elite potential" remains to be seen. And the Toews comparisons I've seen elsewhere are generous to say the least. Right now he looks like a Reinhart-level prospect, maybe not as smart. He has another year to go, so we'll see.
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Sorry my bad I actually meant even strength primary points per 60. Tkachuk gets all those nice secondary assists playing with Marner and Dvorak
Well every single prospect in the worlds potential "remains to be seen". That is why we call it potential.
The fact of the matter is the kid is doing very well and his highly comparable to many very good two-way centers in the league right now.
Reinhart is a different player than him in many ways. Patrick has a much more rounded game then even Reinhart IMO. He may not score much but his team doesn't get scored on much when he's on the ice. And he's bigger and more physically imposing than Reinhart was at the same age. He's much more comparable to Getzlaf than to Reinhart at the same ages. I'd take Getzy 10 times out of 10 over Reinhart and the Finns even though he's having a rough season up until lately.
 
UsernameWasTaken said:
Patrick is a late birthday, so his draft year will be his U19 and his draft + 1 year will be his U20 year. It would be pretty odd for a U19 1st OA to need another year of junior, but it's more important that players develop at their own rate.
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I think highly rated WHL players should likely spend another year in the WHL every time. It's a much different league than the OHL and QMJHL.
Guys like E.Kane, RNH, probably even Yakupov would have benefited more from extra time in the WHL IMO. Though Yakupovs case is odd because of the lockout. Reinhart and Draisaitl both benefited from extra years in the WHL. Given how many guys are going to be taken out of the top end of next years draft from the WHL (Patrick, Yamamoto, Pop) they would all likely benefit from an extra year in the WHL.
 
DaximusPrimus said:
Sorry my bad I actually meant even strength primary points per 60. Tkachuk gets all those nice secondary assists playing with Marner and Dvorak
Well every single prospect in the worlds potential "remains to be seen". That is why we call it potential.
The fact of the matter is the kid is doing very well and his highly comparable to many very good two-way centers in the league right now.
Reinhart is a different player than him in many ways. Patrick has a much more rounded game then even Reinhart IMO. He may not score much but his team doesn't get scored on much when he's on the ice. And he's bigger and more physically imposing than Reinhart was at the same age. He's much more comparable to Getzlaf than to Reinhart at the same ages. I'd take Getzy 10 times out of 10 over Reinhart and the Finns even though he's having a rough season up until lately.
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Still a flawed stat - one reason is that the p60 stats you get in jr hockey aren't calculated - they're estimated. There are also other problems with trying to boil down a player's effectiveness in that way.

For example - if you were to evaluate '15 draft picks from the OHL on that basis, Mitchell Stephens would be leading the way.

In WHL terms, evaluated U19 ('15 eligible) players on that basis would lead to the following ranking:
1. B. Burke
2. Gabrielle
3. Estephan
4. Hebig
5. Babenko
6. Soy
7. Kolesar
8. Barzal

If I were to rank U19 players in the league in terms of NHL potential, I probably wouldn't come up with that.

As far as Patrick vs Reinhart - you say his game is more well rounded - but you also seem to agree he's not as offensively gifted. Is he really more well rounded or is he just defensively better?

I'm not insulting Patrick - I actually really like him. I think in this draft, on the basis of my own evaluations of the players I've seen, he would go after Matthews and Laine and ahead of Tkachuk - I go back and forth on him and Pulju - which is why I said I 'd put him third or fourth.

DaximusPrimus said:
I think highly rated WHL players should likely spend another year in the WHL every time. It's a much different league than the OHL and QMJHL.
Guys like E.Kane, RNH, probably even Yakupov would have benefited more from extra time in the WHL IMO. Though Yakupovs case is odd because of the lockout. Reinhart and Draisaitl both benefited from extra years in the WHL. Given how many guys are going to be taken out of the top end of next years draft from the WHL (Patrick, Yamamoto, Pop) they would all likely benefit from an extra year in the WHL.
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Yakupov played in the OHL, not WHL, so I don't know why you are including him. RNH looked very good in the NHL before he got injured - he was easily the best rookie. After he got injured, I wondered if the NHL was too much for him, but Oilers fans have said the injury wasn't because of level of play...I'm not sure RNH would have be left to a different fate if he'd stayed in the WHL. Before he was injured he played well in Edmonton.
 
UsernameWasTaken said:
Still a flawed stat - one reason is that the p60 stats you get in jr hockey aren't calculated - they're estimated. There are also other problems with trying to boil down a player's effectiveness in that way.

For example - if you were to evaluate '15 draft picks from the OHL on that basis, Mitchell Stephens would be leading the way.

In WHL terms, evaluated U19 ('15 eligible) players on that basis would lead to the following ranking:
1. B. Burke
2. Gabrielle
3. Estephan
4. Hebig
5. Babenko
6. Soy
7. Kolesar
8. Barzal

If I were to rank U19 players in the league in terms of NHL potential, I probably wouldn't come up with that.

As far as Patrick vs Reinhart - you say his game is more well rounded - but you also seem to agree he's not as offensively gifted. Is he really more well rounded or is he just defensively better?

I'm not insulting Patrick - I actually really like him. I think in this draft, on the basis of my own evaluations of the players I've seen, he would go after Matthews and Laine and ahead of Tkachuk - I go back and forth on him and Pulju - which is why I said I 'd put him third or fourth.



Yakupov played in the OHL, not WHL, so I don't know why you are including him. RNH looked very good in the NHL before he got injured - he was easily the best rookie. After he got injured, I wondered if the NHL was too much for him, but Oilers fans have said the injury wasn't because of level of play...I'm not sure RNH would have be left to a different fate if he'd stayed in the WHL. Before he was injured he played well in Edmonton.
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They're flawed but they paint a much better overall portrait than just points alone. Especially when you take into account team mates and league.
I'd say it's more well rounded still. I've watched both numerous times. So take it for what it's worth but I'd take Patrick over Reinhart at the same age. Patrick is one of those players that will likely never break 70 points but will be in Selke conversations a top line shutdown center. I don't think Reinhart will ever be in those conversations. He's the kind of guy that could very well lead a team to a cup. I don't think Reinhart will be that player not to say he isn't good but he just doesn't have that playmaker/playbreaker ability. He's more of a strictly offensive center and that is fine.
My bad I thought Yak was a WHLer.
And honestly I'd take a number of guys over Tkachuk at this point so to me that's not saying much. Many many teams would debate him over Laine. Especially teams lacking a high end two-way center which is many many teams. When I see Laine play I see Rick Nash. When I see Patrick play I see Getzlaf. I'd take the high two-way center over the goal scoring winger any day if I don't have one. If I do then I may take the goalscoring winger.
But none of that really matters because he will likely go 1st in next years draft.
 
Another goal and assist tonight for Patrick. That line of Patrick, Hawryluk and coulter is arguably the top line in the WHL this month. In 7 games this February, they have combined for 22 goals and 30 assists...
 
Two more goals for Patrick tonight. 12 in 8 games in February. He is rolling. His speed and intensity are off the charts since the New Year, dominating every game.
 
This is the kind of guy that will win you a cup. I almost kind of hope Vancouver ends up with him, if there's anyone that needs this kind of prospect, it's them.
 
Just 1 goal In a 3v2 road loss to PA. But goals in 9 straight games is the longest goal scoring streak in the league this season, and hasn't been done by a WK since the 90s!
 
Just netted a hat trick.. still time left in the game.

35 goals 44 assists 79 points in 60 games.

16 goals in his last 10 games.

25 goals in his last 24 games.
 
cjrw83 said:
Where do you guys think he'd go if he was Draft Eligible this year... Top 10?
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top 3. all the people saying "maybe top 10" have never seen him play. He's going number 1 next year.

You guys have to remember this is a Brandon team that struggled at the beginning of the season. He has absolutely dominated a lower scoring league the last 25 or so games. (at 17...)
 
If you compare their draft -1 seasons Patrick has Dubois lapped.
I still stand by Patrick giving Laine a run for his money in this draft for 2nd overall. I think a majority of teams take the C over the Winger.
 
HeavyMcHitter97 said:
No...no he's not. Could he be by next season? Yah probably but right now they're are close.
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Disagree. Not even comparing playing styles and just looking at stats:

PLD: 82 points 55 GP 6th in league scoring
Patrick: 79 points 60 GP 5th in league scoring

Looks close? Sure, then you have to realize Patrick had a SLOW start and is one of the hottest players in the CHL right now. Then, you can't even compare the two's defensive games. Patrick was taking dying seconds d zone faceoffs last season at 16(on McCrimmon's team). The kid is one of the best defensive players in the CHL already. Please do NOT tell me they are on the same level. Because they are NOT.
 
YouthMovement said:
Disagree. Not even comparing playing styles and just looking at stats:

PLD: 82 points 55 GP 6th in league scoring
Patrick: 79 points 60 GP 5th in league scoring

Looks close? Sure, then you have to realize Patrick had a SLOW start and is one of the hottest players in the CHL right now. Then, you can't even compare the two's defensive games. Patrick was taking dying seconds d zone faceoffs last season at 16(on McCrimmon's team). The kid is one of the best defensive players in the CHL already. Please do NOT tell me they are on the same level. Because they are NOT.
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They are both big center who are dominant in the faceoff circles.. From what i've seen similar type of players. Dubois might have a meaner streak and Patrick more potential as he is a bit younger. As a poster said not so long ago, they are on the same level right now, just have to wait to see how both will adapt to the bigs.
 
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