bsu
"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
- Sep 27, 2017
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LmaoCan he drop to 16 please?My favorite player in the draft.
C Marco Rossi - Ottawa 67’s, OHL (2020 Draft)
- Thread starter alko
- Start date
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I think a lot miss the point or are purposely ignoring it.
There’s a very real point that statistics tell us we must consider height when talking about the ability of players to stick as top six centers in the NHL. There are exactly zero top six centers in the NHL that are below 5’10.
It doesn’t mean that Rossi couldn’t be the exception, but how can you ignore data says that there are no comparables? Should we ignore all data when considering how to rank draft eligible prospects?
None of that has anything to do with ones personal opinion of Rossi. Data doesn’t take into account personal opinions.
There’s a very real point that statistics tell us we must consider height when talking about the ability of players to stick as top six centers in the NHL. There are exactly zero top six centers in the NHL that are below 5’10.
It doesn’t mean that Rossi couldn’t be the exception, but how can you ignore data says that there are no comparables? Should we ignore all data when considering how to rank draft eligible prospects?
None of that has anything to do with ones personal opinion of Rossi. Data doesn’t take into account personal opinions.
This focus on faceoffs when it comes to a player's potential viability as a center is ridiculous, faceoffs are just about the least important thing for a center to do in NHL.
You say that data doesn't take personal opinions into account but the way you use it does. As they say, "there's lies, damned lies and statistics"
Some faulty stuff in here. First of all, the cutoff's awfully convenient, as Rossi's 5'9" and you have it at 5'10". Usually, we would call that cherry picking. Second, Tyler Johnson scored some 72 points in 77 games in NHL. So unless you'd assert that it's more difficult to make it in NHL as an undersized center now than it was in 2014, it's not very convincing.
You say that data doesn't take personal opinions into account but the way you use it does. As they say, "there's lies, damned lies and statistics"
you would think Anaheim takes someone else. Feels to me like having your 2 top prospects as undersized playmaking Cs does not make much sense. Both are fantastic prospects but I don’t see it. But maybe I’m just a hopeful Wild fan and subconsciously hope Rossi falls to 9.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Not exactly. 5'10 is a pretty typical cutoff when talking about heights for athletes. Undersized is usually considered anything under 6'0, but there is a pretty widely acknowledged difference between 5'10, 5'11, and 5'8 or 5'9 in discussions of the degree a player is undersized. It also shows up in the data. There are 5'10, 5'11 top 6 centers in the NHL. Not that many of them, but some of them. There are none that are 5'9.
It's not as arbitrary as you make it seem, and I think you know that.
As to Tyler Johnson, I have mentioned him before. The fact of the matter is that he's not playing center right now for his NHL team. Is it a coincidence that the player listed at 5'8 as opposed a few guys 6'0+ and another at 5'10 is the one relegated to winger by his team this season? I don't know, but Johnson's been around a long time in the NHL as a center, and now isn't even playing the position anymore. It's a very borderline example to use because he's not currently playing the position, but even if you want to use it, does there being one as opposed to zero make a huge difference? The data remains pretty similar.
Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Zegras is 6 feet, I wouldn't describe him as undersized. While both Zegras and Rossi are playmakers, there are a lot of differences between their games. I don't think that there's any redundancy to picking Zegras and Rossi in consecutive drafts.
BondraTime
Registered User
Zegras is very slight physically. I think he will get pushed around a lot his first year or two similar to Clayton Keller.
bsu
"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
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Zegras is way more physical than Keller, he has a meanstreak.
he’s going to need it if he wants to be a C in the NHL. I still think Anaheim takes a D or a scoring winger.
JabbaJabba
Registered User
As a Ducks fan I wish that Anaheim focuses on skill rather than size. Ducks have taken players like Ritchie and Jones in the first round who had size and physicality but Ritchie hasn't been able to bring his scoring touch to NHL and Jones has been disappointing as well, although he was a later first rounder. While Rossi is small, it seems that he doesn't back down from physical aspect of the game and he has some muscles already.
I would be fine if Ducks got Rossi and he turned out to be a winger, there are a couple of bigger guys with top six/middle six potential in the pipeline and they can acquire big players later if it seems like there's need to beef up the forward core. I want his skill set in the prospect pool.
It doesn't really matter whether it's "typical" AKA "excusable", or not. My point is that, how much of a practical difference do you think it makes going from 5'10" to 5'9"? Not much, I'd wager. How many of these top 6 5'10" centers would not be top 6 centers if they were 5'9" instead? Not many, I'd wager.
Yes, I'd say it has something to do with them having Brayden Point(5'10" by the way) and Steven Stamkos ahead of him as centers. This is specifically why I asked whether you think it is more difficult right now to play in NHL as an undersized center than it was in 2014(Or one of his other seasons).
No, it doesn't make a huge difference whether there's 0 or 1. After all, I don't know why "Marco Rossi could be the shortest top 6 player in NHL" would not be a valid stance for one to have. Especially if we can't establish there being a massive difference in performance when going from 5'10" to 5'9" for a center. I just think that making a huge deal out of it is misleading.
JabbaJabba
Registered User
Do we even know, how tall Rossi is at the moment? I think that 5'9 measurement is from last Fall so I doubt it is correct anymore.
Sens of Anarchy
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Even at 5'9 he plays bigger than a lot of 6 footers. Size is a good thing. Lack of size isn't necessarily bad. I think he has being short figured out. He has excelled at every level and continues to improve/develop. He is vying for the 4,5,6 spots in this draft. 2 Forwards he's up against Raymond and Perfetti are listed at 5'10.
Pick your poison but height should not be the deciding factor
DatDude44
Hmmmm?
- Feb 23, 2012
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Marco rossi reminds me alot of brayden point. Don't see height being much of an issue for him.
bert
Registered User
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Perfetti and Raymond might still grow though, Rossi definititely isnt he hasnt grown for over a year. He is further along in his physical development and is far closer to his finished product than these other two. You're not picking the player for right now as you clearly know however to not wonder how close Rossi is to his finished product would be irresponsible in making this decision. Personally he is just too far along in his physical development for his size for me to draft in the top 9 for me this year. I have him 10th.
Laf
Byfield
Stutzle
Drysdale
Perfetti
Raymond
Quinn
Sanderson
Holtz
Rossi
He just doesnt drive the play in the same way, Point does with his legs Rossi doesnt. If Rossi had explosive speed like Point he would be in the conversation for number 2. He doesn't have that elite level skating.
Sens of Anarchy
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So he is not in the conversation for 2. His skating can improve just like every other prospect and it is certainly not that bad. Closer to the finished product is conjecture its just another thought put out there to lower him compared to someone else. No one knows that.
bert
Registered User
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His skating will never be at points level. He doesnt have the stride or power, you can develop skating sure, it goes alot further on a big body to get faster, but small guys there is only so much better than can get. He has already made it better and its still very average, he doesnt have the explosiveness to create space.
Its not conjecture he is at his physical maximum he has a late birthday and grew early. Most players this age are not finished, if he gets any heavier he loses even more speed.
Sens of Anarchy
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Barry Amsterdam
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VoidCreature
Before you see the light, you must die.
Honestly don’t care whether he can play center in the NHL or not.
If he’s there at 7 I want him. Devils need difference makers.
If he’s there at 7 I want him. Devils need difference makers.
Realgud
Not good enough for SKA
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Sojourn
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If they do, it should be because they rate them higher than Rossi. Anaheim needs to be drafting the best player available at this point in the draft. They can always try to make a trade for a position of need, and if need be they could even trade one of Zegras or Rossi to acquire that player who fills a need when that time comes, but they'd unquestionably be in a better position of filling that need by having the absolute best player available to them. 100 dollars will allow them to buy more than 75.
But, personally, I think being really strong down the middle is an asset for any team. No matter who Anaheim picks, they will still have work to do to build their team the right way. It's not like one position or another is going to turn things around for them this next season.
