C Clayton Keller - Boston University, NCAA (2016, 7th, ARI)

[John Pedro]

Is Giroux a good comparison? Tiny, great creativity and playmaking skills, great shot and good two-way game.

He's one of my favs for the Devils at #11 alongside with Jost, Brown and McLeod.

 

[Magua]

Is Giroux a good comparison? Tiny, great creativity and playmaking skills, great shot and good two-way game.

He's one of my favs for the Devils at #11 alongside with Jost, Brown and McLeod.

He reminds me quite a bit of Giroux. Maybe less physical and chippy, but Keller is a bit faster of a skater. He's young for his draft year and he looks the part...maybe when he bulks up he will be a bit more physically engaged.

 

[Woodhouse]

Hey Woodhouse thanks for this info. Where did you obtain it? Do you have to look at game by game stats?

Yeah, just a simple split tally of the desired game-by-game logs for NTDP guys from their USAH profiles and the college guys from USCHO or team/conference profiles.

 

[stavs*]

I'd love to know why he definitively won't be a #1 C. I think that is his potential. He has all the skill and the hockey IQ to match to be one. He has no holes in game....besides the fact that he's not 6'2'. Whether he will be one is the story of every prospect, but the potential is absolutely there.

Size is the clear issue. That's why Marner was never really the solution to the Leafs center woes even though he could play it. Same goes for Keller, he wouldn't last against a Kopitar, Toews, Getlzaf, Matthews, Eichel, Thornton, etc. he is much better suited for 2nd line C where the size matchup won't be as much of any issue and he may be able to overcome it.

 

[Magua]

Size is the clear issue. That's why Marner was never really the solution to the Leafs center woes even though he could play it. Same goes for Keller, he wouldn't last against a Kopitar, Toews, Getlzaf, Matthews, Eichel, Thornton, etc. he is much better suited for 2nd line C where the size matchup won't be as much of any issue and he may be able to overcome it.

Not all #1 centers have to be 6'3". And just because you're playing against another team, your #1 centers don't always go head to head. Again, if he has everything imaginable except size...then size isn't an issue.

 

[stavs*]

Not all #1 centers have to be 6'3". And just because you're playing against another team, your #1 centers don't always go head to head. Again, if he has everything imaginable except size...then size isn't an issue.

Size is always an issue when we talk about #1 C position. Look at Nashville and Columbus trade, Nashville wanted Johansen over RNH because Johansen can physically match other #1 C in the league and has the skill to go along with it. RNH has height, but he still carries a skinny stature and still gets dominated by bigger centerman. It's not a matchup you would want to go into the playoffs with if you're the team that has Keller as a #1 C and you're going up against an Eichel or Matthews as an age comparable.


Going back to Keller I'm not saying he will need size, because clearly Giroux figured out how to do it. But after Giroux who else in the NHL is there that is small and a legit #1 C? I would certainly hold my expectations of Keller realistic, which is a 2nd line C. If he becomes more than that then whoever gets him will be one of the winners of the draft, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Size is always an issue when we talk about #1 C position. Look at Nashville and Columbus trade, Nashville wanted Johansen over RNH because Johansen can physically match other #1 C in the league and has the skill to go along with it. RNH has height, but he still carries a skinny stature and still gets dominated by bigger centerman. It's not a matchup you would want to go into the playoffs with if you're the team that has Keller as a #1 C and you're going up against an Eichel or Matthews as an age comparable.


Going back to Keller I'm not saying he will need size, because clearly Giroux figured out how to do it. But after Giroux who else in the NHL is there that is small and a legit #1 C? I would certainly hold my expectations of Keller realistic, which is a 2nd line C. If he becomes more than that then whoever gets him will be one of the winners of the draft, but I wouldn't count on it.

Crosby 5' 11"
Giroux 5' 11"
Pavelski 5' 11"
Johnson 5' 9"
Duchene 5' 11"

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I'd love to know why he definitively won't be a #1 C. I think that is his potential. He has all the skill and the hockey IQ to match to be one. He has no holes in game....besides the fact that he's not 6'2'. Whether he will be one is the story of every prospect, but the potential is absolutely there.

The problem is defensive match ups. If you end up having Keller vs Getzlaf, Kopitar or Toews in the defensive zone in particular you're going to lose that matchup. And that is why he may never be a true #1 centre. He may have to be sheltered defensively and match ups would be extremely problematic on the road. That is why you don't see many if any tiny #1 centres.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If Keller was 6' + he would be in the top 5 conversation.

He is likely in the 9-13 range.

He is young and could end up at 5'11' where some pretty decent Centers are playing.
If he is a #2 I do not think it is a blown pick in that range. He has enough skill, speed and compete to take a chance on him IMO

 

[stavs*]

Crosby 5' 11"
Giroux 5' 11"
Pavelski 5' 11"
Johnson 5' 9"
Duchene 5' 11"

Crosby is a generational talent, Johnson not a #1 C, Pavelski sure, Duchene a borderline #1 C

Keller isn't even a top 10 talent either so that makes it more unlikely for him to reach #1C.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Crosby is a generational talent, Johnson not a #1 C, Pavelski sure, Duchene a borderline #1 C

Keller isn't even a top 10 talent either so that makes it more unlikely for him to reach #1C.

Oh... I thought you asked who beside Giroux is small and a legit #1C.
I guess you forgot to mention that generational talents are excluded.

Johnson is their #1C right now works for me

Why are we arguing about this?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Johnson not a #1 C

--> leads his team over two seasons with 34 points in his last 34 playoff games, facing top line checking, playing with top line wingers,
--> not a #1 C



mmkay.

 

[stavs*]

--> leads his team over two seasons with 34 points in his last 34 playoff games, facing top line checking, playing with top line wingers,
--> not a #1 C



mmkay.

go look at his regular season. It takes ALOT more than a good year of playoffs to make someone a #1 C.

 

[stavs*]

Oh... I thought you asked who beside Giroux is small and a legit #1C.
I guess you forgot to mention that generational talents are excluded.

Johnson is their #1C right now works for me

Why are we arguing about this?

I'm just saying its a rarity to actually have a #1 C as a small forward because its literally a matchup in hell when they go up against a big #1 with skill. What team has ever won a cup in the last few decades with a small #1 C aside from generational talents? You see all the Toews, Kopitars, Bergerons winning cups. I don't even know why this is an argument, I already said he should be a good #2, what is wrong with that?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

go look at his regular season.

He was injured this year. Wanna go look at Toews regular season while healthy and declare him not a #1C?

It takes ALOT more than a good year of playoffs to make someone a #1 C.

Like two good years of playoffs, plus another regular season with 72 points.

What team has ever won a cup in the last few decades with a small #1 C aside from generational talents?

Also Doug Gilmour and Bryan Trottier if you wanna go back further into history.

Ideally teams have two very different players who are both "co-#1Cs". A Sakic and a Forsberg, a Malkin and a Crosby, A Johnson and Stamkos, a Brind'Amour and Staal, a Backstrom and Kuznetsov. Teams that have two very similar centers often get figured out.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Keller is significantly smaller than any of those guys pictured above. The kid looks closer in size to Gaudreau than to Yzerman/Sakic

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Keller is significantly smaller than any of those guys pictured above. The kid looks closer in size to Gaudreau than to Yzerman/Sakic

5'10" / 178 as a prospect is "significantly" smaller than 5'11 / 185-195 in prime..?

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

5'10" / 178 as a prospect is "significantly" smaller than 5'11 / 185-195 in prime..?

Listed at 5'10 170 at the U18s. Wouldn't surprise me if the 5'10 was a round up and wouldn't surprise me if the 170 was after he had just eaten a meal, I'll be very curious about his measurements at the combine. The kid looks tiny on the ice. Can he add 20 lbs of muscle to get to 190? Maybe. I'll leave that to the scouts and fitness staff to decide. Just my impression from the U18s but he looked teeny tiny. Size is a definite issue for him. It's going to affect how well he can match up defensively at the NHL level. It's hard to expect a player that size to be able to cover a Getzlaf, Kopitar, Thornton, Toews, Malkin, etc. They just can't physically defend those players.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Listed at 5'10 170 at the U18s.

17 year old Keller listed at 178/5′10″ at U18s, actually.


Contrast with 19 year old Gaudreau, listed at 5'8" / 173 at U20s

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

17 year old Keller listed at 178/5′10″ at U18s, actually.

Well if you search Clayton Keller height weight on google the entire first page of results has him at 170 or 168. Maybe that's all from a year ago and he's packed on 8 lbs. Guess we'll see at the combine.

He looked teeny tiny at the U18s. He would be physically dominated by the big centres in the NHL.

 

[stavs*]

He was injured this year. Wanna go look at Toews regular season while healthy and declare him not a #1C?



Like two good years of playoffs, plus another regular season with 72 points.

Also Doug Gilmour and Bryan Trottier if you wanna go back further into history.

Ideally teams have two very different players who are both "co-#1Cs". A Sakic and a Forsberg, a Malkin and a Crosby, A Johnson and Stamkos, a Brind'Amour and Staal, a Backstrom and Kuznetsov. Teams that have two very similar centers often get figured out.

Keller won't be anywhere near any of those guys, especially in today's NHL. You're really reaching here to prove me wrong, but in no way shape or form is he even close to an Yzerman, Sakic or Datsyuk. Besides those guys have intangibles that are just magical and HHOF worthy.

Keller looked very close to Johnson's size at the U18 that just passed, maybe smaller. If a team wants to roll with him as a #1 center, I would have no problem with that as a Leafs fan. Easy matchup for Matthews or any other big center with skill

 

[The Winter Soldier]

On the right team, Keller is going to be bang for the buck. Liked him earlier in the year, and still do. If you have some bigger fwds to insulate him. I can see him being magical on that team. A very exciting, skilled player that makes the game fun to watch.

 

[Magua]

He looked teeny tiny at the U18s. He would be physically dominated by the big centres in the NHL.

You're saying that a 17 year old who isn't even physically mature yet would be dominated by Kopitar and Toews in the NHL?

Golly gee.

 

[Scorcho]

Keller won't be anywhere near any of those guys, especially in today's NHL. You're really reaching here to prove me wrong, but in no way shape or form is he even close to an Yzerman, Sakic or Datsyuk. Besides those guys have intangibles that are just magical and HHOF worthy.

Keller looked very close to Johnson's size at the U18 that just passed, maybe smaller. If a team wants to roll with him as a #1 center, I would have no problem with that as a Leafs fan. Easy matchup for Matthews or any other big center with skill

are you an expert?

 

[Magua]

Size is always an issue when we talk about #1 C position. Look at Nashville and Columbus trade, Nashville wanted Johansen over RNH because Johansen can physically match other #1 C in the league and has the skill to go along with it. RNH has height, but he still carries a skinny stature and still gets dominated by bigger centerman. It's not a matchup you would want to go into the playoffs with if you're the team that has Keller as a #1 C and you're going up against an Eichel or Matthews as an age comparable.

(Again, your #1 center doesn't always line match with the other team's #1. And RNH is used as a #2 because that's what he is. It has nothing to do with his skinny stature. But that's all tangential, and I don't feel like getting into that.....)

I don't understand your point why a smaller center would get dominated any more than a smaller winger...like Gaudreau or Kane who routinely gets destroyed and embarrassed out there by all the big bads of the west sarcasm. I don't understand why a smaller player has to be inherently dominated to begin with. This is just an outdated model of the NHL: it doesn't matter whether your 1st line center is bigger than your 2nd...they could both be big; they could both not be. And you can be a smaller player and have more ferocity than a bigger one. Really it's all about smarts, skill, and speed -- you have those? Sky is the limit. Size is only an issue when there are other issues. But when you're big...well of course those other issues get glossed over.

I can only pray other teams' GMs at the draft think like you do about Keller.