C Clayton Keller - Boston University, NCAA (2016, 7th, ARI)

[Baemon Severson*]

Would be v happy if NJ ends up taking him. I hear comparisons to P. Kane and Gaudreau. If he's even 75% of those players he's a first liner.

 

[HSF]

Pavel Datsyuk.

Tyler Johnson.

Matt Duchene.

They're out there.

Pavelski

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Keller won't be anywhere near any of those guys, especially in today's NHL. You're really reaching here to prove me wrong, but in no way shape or form is he even close to an Yzerman, Sakic or Datsyuk. Besides those guys have intangibles that are just magical and HHOF worthy.

Keller looked very close to Johnson's size at the U18 that just passed, maybe smaller. If a team wants to roll with him as a #1 center, I would have no problem with that as a Leafs fan. Easy matchup for Matthews or any other big center with skill

All becoming clear now.. It's not about Keller. It's about the opportunity to gloat about Matthews.

Leafs fan... #1 Pick.... Matthews ... Big Center.... got it.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

All becoming clear now.. It's not about Keller. It's about the opportunity to gloat about Matthews.

Leafs fan... #1 Pick.... Matthews ... Big Center.... got it.

Good recognition.

Funny how Mitch Marner can be a Center:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106107067&postcount=85

Who resembles Datsyuk defensively:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106102007&postcount=44

But Keller? "in no way shape or form is he even close to an Yzerman, Sakic or Datsyuk. Besides those guys have intangibles that are just magical and HHOF worthy. "

 

[stavs*]

All becoming clear now.. It's not about Keller. It's about the opportunity to gloat about Matthews.

Leafs fan... #1 Pick.... Matthews ... Big Center.... got it.

Not at all, we thought Marner could play as a #1 C last year in the NHL but its not sensible even though he surely has the skills. We all knew on the Leafs forum his height/weight was going to his biggest problem and even Hunter wasn't sure what to do with him because he was used as a centerman and a winger this year, but he ended up playing most of his time as a winger (even though he has plenty of experience at center growing up). Marner's brother also had a late growth spurt pushing him well over 6' which we were hoping would happen to Marner but it doesnt look like it's going to happen. I think Marner could be a great center (probably not #1), but will be hindered by his size, which goes for Keller too. Marner being on the wing means he doesn't have to focus on matchup's nearly as much and can rely on just playing his game. I think Marner can be an elite winger at the NHL level, I don't think Marner can be an elite center at the NHL level though. Same goes for players like Kane, Gaudreau, etc

 

[stavs*]

Good recognition.

Funny how Mitch Marner can be a Center:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106107067&postcount=85

Who resembles Datsyuk defensively:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106102007&postcount=44

But Keller? "in no way shape or form is he even close to an Yzerman, Sakic or Datsyuk. Besides those guys have intangibles that are just magical and HHOF worthy. "

see my post above. That post was made a year ago when many Leaf fans also had the same mindset. Things have changed now, and he lost the centerman label a long time ago. If you don't believe me go through the Marner thread on here.

Things are always changing, I was on the Stamkos bandwagon for the first few months of the the year this season hyping him up to play in TO. Now my posts about bringing in Stammer are mostly negative and questioning him in a Leafs jersey. People next year might decide that Keller might be better off as a winger when he starts playing against young men in the NCAA and his size becomes more exploitable at C for opposing centres. It would not be a hard transition for him at all.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

see my post above. That post was made a year ago when many Leaf fans also had the same mindset. Things have changed now, and he lost the centerman label a long time ago. If you don't believe me go through the Marner thread on here.

Things are always changing, I was on the Stamkos bandwagon for the first few months of the the year this season hyping him up to play in TO. Now my posts about bringing in Stammer are mostly negative and questioning him in a Leafs jersey. People next year might decide that Keller might be better off as a winger when he starts playing against young men in the NCAA and his size becomes more exploitable at C for opposing centres. It would not be a hard transition for him at all.

Here's the difference:

Mitch Marner was a winger up until the day he was drafted, and it was Leafs fans claiming he would be developed as a center.

Clayton Keller has been a center up until the day he was drafted, and it's Leafs fans now claiming he won't be developed as a center.

 

[stavs*]

Here's the difference:

Mitch Marner was a winger up until the day he was drafted, and it was Leafs fans claiming he would be developed as a center.

Clayton Keller has been a center up until the day he was drafted, and it's Leafs fans now claiming he won't be developed as a center.

Marner is listed as a C/RW so that it entirely false

infact its still up on here and you can probably find it on TSN too when they did the rankings

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=223194


here is another

Because of of his smaller size like Keller, it makes much more sense to have him in a position like a winger where he can fully utilize his skill set without having potential brutal match ups like against an elite defensive center for an entire game. Keller should do fine in the NHL, but if you want to see him in a position where he's more likely to succeed and be a game changer that would definitely be on the wing like Marner. It caters to his size and is more forgiving because wingers are not relied upon as much in the defensive end too. I'm not going to rule out his chance of #1 C because he has the skills to do it, but the potential to reach that is tapered down significantly. At the end of the day, a team will be thrilled to have this guy in their prospect pool and I don't blame them, I think he'll be a true gamer

 

[Magua]

Because of of his smaller size like Keller, it makes much more sense to have him in a position like a winger where he can fully utilize his skill set without having potential brutal match ups like against an elite defensive center for an entire game

Yes, because Kane and the like at wing never ever are line matched against elite defensive centers. It is a widely known fact that a center iceman has no effect on the game other than playing against the player he is positionally matched against. If he gets converted to wing, I believe he doesn't even have to play against defensemen either.

Seriously now: you still have not defined what these "brutal" match ups entail at center. They are only brutal if the player is not good enough defensively. Since that is not the case...what then? Oh wait, could it be....size? Excellent point. A small winger NEVER has to deal with playing against bigger wingers, centers, and d men when on the ice. Only centers have to deal with that.

Why am I even bothering at this point? That's the better question.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Yes, because Kane and the like at wing never ever are line matched against elite defensive centers. It is a widely known fact that a center iceman has no effect on the game other than playing against the player he is positionally matched against. If he gets converted to wing, I believe he doesn't even have to play against defensemen either.

Seriously now: you still have not defined what these "brutal" match ups entail at center. They are only brutal if the player is not good enough defensively. Since that is not the case...what then? Oh wait, could it be....size? Excellent point. A small winger NEVER has to deal with playing against bigger wingers, centers, and d men when on the ice. Only centers have to deal with that.

Why am I even bothering at this point? That's the better question.

Im surprised so many people don't understand how the match ups in the defensive zone work. The opposition has 3 forwards. Who covers them typically? The dmen and the centre. This means the centre has a lot more defensive responsibilities compared to the wingers who are typically covering the defencemen. The centre is defending down low while the wingers are defending the points.

What does this mean for small centres? They are covering down low and that is where a lot of physical battles take place behind the net, on the cycle, in front of the net. Small players often lose physical battles to bigger, stronger players. How is Keller going to prevent a powerforward from driving the net? At his size it's nearly impossible. How is he going to prevent Getzlaf and Perry from cycling the puck and driving the net?

That is why you see very few tiny top line centres in the NHL. In order to not have bad matchups against bigger, stronger forwards in the defensive zone they have to be sheltered defensively. You can't shelter your first line centre.

 

[stavs*]

Im surprised so many people don't understand how the match ups in the defensive zone work. The opposition has 3 forwards. Who covers them typically? The dmen and the centre. This means the centre has a lot more defensive responsibilities compared to the wingers who are typically covering the defencemen. The centre is defending down low while the wingers are defending the points.

What does this mean for small centres? They are covering down low and that is where a lot of physical battles take place behind the net, on the cycle, in front of the net. Small players often lose physical battles to bigger, stronger players. How is Keller going to prevent a powerforward from driving the net? At his size it's nearly impossible. How is he going to prevent Getzlaf and Perry from cycling the puck and driving the net?

That is why you see very few tiny top line centres in the NHL. In order to not have bad matchups against bigger, stronger forwards in the defensive zone they have to be sheltered defensively. You can't shelter your first line centre.

thanks for saving me time to explain. At least someone else here gets it.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Im surprised so many people don't understand how the match ups in the defensive zone work. The opposition has 3 forwards. Who covers them typically? The dmen and the centre. This means the centre has a lot more defensive responsibilities compared to the wingers who are typically covering the defencemen. The centre is defending down low while the wingers are defending the points.

What does this mean for small centres? They are covering down low and that is where a lot of physical battles take place behind the net, on the cycle, in front of the net. Small players often lose physical battles to bigger, stronger players. How is Keller going to prevent a powerforward from driving the net? At his size it's nearly impossible. How is he going to prevent Getzlaf and Perry from cycling the puck and driving the net?

That's a gross and exaggerated, and quite frankly dissapointing oversimplification of defensive hockey if ever I saw one. Defensive zone play isn't just done chasing big bodies off the puck. Getting sticks in passing lanes defensively, anticipating the play and getting in the shooting lane, winning races to rebounds and missed shots, boxing out shooters with a low center of gravity, and having the awareness to make the correct pass quickly are more important to defending, against cycle or otherwise, than being tall.

Wingers don't have to be big unlike centers? Wingers engage in more loose puck battles than centremen do. Teams don't exit the defensive zone through pretty dekes in front of their nets, they exit their zone by chipping the puck from below the goal line to the side walls and to the center. A quick centreman who opens up an exit opportunity with his positioning and speed is a lot more effective at getting out of the defensive zone than a big centreman who just hangs around collapsed in front of the net trying to shoot the puck to the red line. That's what makes guys like Toews, Bergeron, Johnson, Datsyuk and Giroux remain some of the best two-way centremen in the league, not their very average-or-less size.

How is "Keller" going to prevent a power forward (which, by the way, is not a compound word) from driving the net? By skating in front. You make it sound as if small players are just going to matador out of the way of big players. The puck is not above the ice, it is on the ice. All players have advantages and distadvantages. Just like some power forwards can bull their way to the net, some skill forwards can dance right around bigger centres. What matters is strong fundamentals.

Finally, the vast majority of successful modern defensive hockey is not played in the defensive zone. It is played on the forecheck and thru neutral ice coverage. The best way to defend is not to collapse chase the cycle around trying to outmuscle the opponent, it's to prevent the initial entry. Again, anticipation is the single most important element.

Marner is listed as a C/RW so that it entirely false

Marner did not play center in his draft season. Every skilled forward is listed as a center in most drafts. But unless they play the position it's an empty listing.

 

[FrankMTL]

Interesting article about Brown trying to convince Keller to come play with him in Windsor.

http://windsorstar.com/sports/hocke...rychel-now-turns-his-attention-to-star-player

 

[chunkylover53]

While Keller chances of becoming an top #1c are tough because of size, he's going to be a player. On skill he's a top 5 talent and someone will get a great player.

 

[BigRangy]

How does Keller compare to Bracco at the same age? I know Keller has higher PPG, and is slightly bigger, but how do their physical tools compare? Hands, skating, vision, grit, speed etc? Trying to understand why one went in the 2nd and the other might go top 5.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

How does Keller compare to Bracco at the same age? I know Keller has higher PPG, and is slightly bigger, but how do their physical tools compare? Hands, skating, vision, grit, speed etc? Trying to understand why one went in the 2nd and the other might go top 5.

I would say hands and vision on a totally different level on Keller than in bracco.

 

[93LEAFS]

I would say hands and vision on a totally different level on Keller than in bracco.

I don't think there is that wide a gap if any on vision, maybe a slight one on hands. Bracco's vision and passing is almost on Marner's level.

The main difference which makes Keller the better prospect is that he plays with more intensity and grit, and is the better skater. The ability to have pest like qualities seems key for smaller guys, outside of rare talents like Kane and Gaudreau, who are both excellent skaters.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If Nylander is gone, I hope the Flames take Keller over Tkachuk. I like him that much.

 

[blinkman360]

I generally hate trading top picks to move up, but Keller would absolutely be worth it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I would say hands and vision on a totally different level on Keller than in bracco.

Agreed with this, as well as skating.

 

[boredmale]

I generally hate trading top picks to move up, but Keller would absolutely be worth it.

Now we just need picks. lol

 

[blinkman360]

Now we just need picks. lol

If Halak is dealt I'd imagine he could get a 2nd. Even without it though, I'd gladly move our '17 2nd, plus whatever else it would take. Kid is a ridiculous talent.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't think there is that wide a gap if any on vision, maybe a slight one on hands. Bracco's vision and passing is almost on Marner's level.

The main difference which makes Keller the better prospect is that he plays with more intensity and grit, and is the better skater. The ability to have pest like qualities seems key for smaller guys, outside of rare talents like Kane and Gaudreau, who are both excellent skaters.

Not sure why bracco. Would go at the end of the second round then.

 

[jimslob]

Outside of Claude Giroux I can't think of many small big-name centres. Crosby is under 6'0'' but built like a bull. Is it because they have a tougher time? Or it's rare that we see small elite center prospects? Or coach bias against them player center?

Just of the top of my head here is a few:
Wayne Gretzky 6' 0" 185 lbs. 1,487 games played 2,857 points.
Dale Hawerchuck 5" 11" 185 lbs. 1,188 games played 1,409 points
Pat Lafontaine 5'10" 180 lbs 865 games played 1,013 points
Thomas Gradin 5' 11" 170 lbs 677 games played and 593 points (okay this one might be considered a bust but the other three were pretty darn good hockey players)

 

[jimslob]

And just for comparison here is Eric Lindros 6' 4" weight 230 lbs 760 games played 865 points.
Ya I would take him over Gradin but not the other three.