C Adam Fantilli - (2023, 3rd, CBJ) Part 2

[ORRFForever]

None of the back and forth will matter in a week. Much ado about nothing.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

As a playmaker vs goalscorer yes, but in terms of agression probably Fantilli is closer to Getzlaf

As well as timely scoring in the playoffs. Getz used to be a beast in the playoffs using his size and physicality to his advantage. He has the swagger like Getzlaf to be a beast in the playoffs.
It turns out that the only 1 out 10 scouts who didn't have Fantilli at #2 in Bob McKenzies list had Michkov at #2 and Fantilli at #3 so that means all 10 scouts had Fantilli above Carlsson, that is a slam dunk as it gets.

I just don't see Carlsson being as good in the playoffs, he seems more likely he'll be playoffs Marner/Matthews. When the push come to shove he choked terrible vs Latvia defensively and offensive while Fantilli stepped up while playing 4th line minutes to put Latvia away, Latvia that eliminated USA and Sweden.

Sweden was counting on Carlsson to be their hero and he didn't do the job. Canada didn't take Fantilli serious and he saved them vs Latvia. This shows to me that Fantilli is the guy who will do whatever it takes no matter what his role is. He is constantly working on his game.

 

[Garl]

As well as timely scoring in the playoffs. Getz used to be a beast in the playoffs using his size and physicality to his advantage. He has the swagger like Getzlaf to be a beast in the playoffs.
It turns out that the only 1 out 10 scouts who didn't have Fantilli at #2 in Bob McKenzies list had Michkov at #2 and Fantilli at #3 so that means all 10 scouts had Fantilli above Carlsson, that is a slam dunk as it gets.

I just don't see Carlsson being as good in the playoffs, he seems more likely he'll be playoffs Marner/Matthews. When the push come to shove he choked terrible vs Latvia defensively and offensive while Fantilli stepped up while playing 4th line minutes to put Latvia away, Latvia that eliminated USA and Sweden.

Sweden was counting on Carlsson to be their hero and he didn't do the job. Canada didn't take Fantilli serious and he saved them vs Latvia. This shows to me that Fantilli is the guy who will do whatever it takes no matter what his role is. He is constantly working on his game.

18 y.o "choked" at a Senior World Championships. And they say I am harsh on Michkov LMAO.

Carlsson had a really good playoff run as an 18 yo in Sweden. Best after Sedin brothers back in 99

 

[CBJx614]

As well as timely scoring in the playoffs. Getz used to be a beast in the playoffs using his size and physicality to his advantage. He has the swagger like Getzlaf to be a beast in the playoffs.
It turns out that the only 1 out 10 scouts who didn't have Fantilli at #2 in Bob McKenzies list had Michkov at #2 and Fantilli at #3 so that means all 10 scouts had Fantilli above Carlsson, that is a slam dunk as it gets.

I just don't see Carlsson being as good in the playoffs, he seems more likely he'll be playoffs Marner/Matthews. When the push come to shove he choked terrible vs Latvia defensively and offensive while Fantilli stepped up while playing 4th line minutes to put Latvia away, Latvia that eliminated USA and Sweden.

Sweden was counting on Carlsson to be their hero and he didn't do the job. Canada didn't take Fantilli serious and he saved them vs Latvia. This shows to me that Fantilli is the guy who will do whatever it takes no matter what his role is. He is constantly working on his game.

One game doesn't decide who is or isn't clutch. Teams don't base that off of one tournament. Fantilli was on the 4th because his team was better and deeper than Sweden's. And Carlsson was only on the first because other top swedish centers didn't show up. Hockey is a team sport. What does it say if Sweden was counting on Carlsson but Canada was able to put Fantilli on the 4th? Fantilli played in two more games while averaging just slightly less TOI(13 for Carlsson, 12 for Fantilli) and still scored less than Carlsson did.

 

[forever1922]

One game doesn't decide who is or isn't clutch. Teams don't base that off of one tournament. Fantilli was on the 4th because his team was better and deeper than Sweden's. And Carlsson was only on the first because other top swedish centers didn't show up. Hockey is a team sport. What does it say if Sweden was counting on Carlsson but Canada was able to put Fantilli on the 4th? Fantilli played in two more games while averaging just slightly less TOI(13 for Carlsson, 12 for Fantilli) and still scored less than Carlsson did.

You can look back to what was discussed about their play in the world champs' thread, most posters here covered them plenty in much detail. Carlsson benefitted more from play of his linemates but he had to perform to stay there, which to his credit he did. Fantilli was a playdriver on each of his line combinations, outshooting and creating his linemates by far.

Also, Carlsson averaged 15:38 to Fantilli's 12:25, while getting outshot 12 to 24. Someone probably has the counting stats when it comes to expected goals, I'm not sure who has the lead but I' venture a guess it's much closer than the 2-to-1 shooting. Which both are clear wins for Fantilli given the circumstances.

 

[CBJx614]

You can look back to what was discussed about their play in the world champs' thread, most posters here covered them plenty in much detail. Carlsson benefitted more from play of his linemates but he had to perform to stay there, which to his credit he did. Fantilli was a playdriver on each of his line combinations, outshooting and creating his linemates by far.

Also, Carlsson averaged 15:38 to Fantilli's 12:25, while getting outshot 12 to 24. Someone probably has the counting stats when it comes to expected goals, I'm not sure who has the lead but I' venture a guess it's much closer than the 2-to-1 shooting. Which both are clear wins for Fantilli given the circumstances.

Well considering that Carlsson is a playmaker and not a goal scorer it's not surprising that Carlsson didn't shoot much. And then once again, Canada's roster make-up was much better than Sweden's. Hence Sweden putting a 18 year old at 1C vs Canada being able to put it's 18yr old on the 4th. First line minutes also means the toughest competition vs 4th line minutes and easier matchups.

 

[HanSolo]

Well considering that Carlsson is a playmaker and not a goal scorer it's not surprising that Carlsson didn't shoot much. And then once again, Canada's roster make-up was much better than Sweden's. Hence Sweden putting a 18 year old at 1C vs Canada being able to put it's 18yr old on the 4th. First line minutes also means the toughest competition vs 4th line minutes and easier matchups.

Well. I just woke up so I could probably have a more detailed take if I was less groggy but another important difference is Carlsson had two years of experience playing against professional adults while Fantilli did it the first time at the WC. That's not necessarily a knock on Carlsson bit it's context for why he was better conditioned to handle his role than Fantilli.

 

[CBJx614]

Well. I just woke up so I could probably have a more detailed take if I was less groggy but another important difference is Carlsson had two years of experience playing against professional adults while Fantilli did it the first time at the WC. That's not necessarily a knock on Carlsson bit it's context for why he was better conditioned to handle his role than Fantilli.

While that's true, Fantilli also spent the last season mainly playing against older competition as a true freshman. And it was both of their first appearance at the Men's tournament.

 

[tomd]

While that's true, Fantilli also spent the last season mainly playing against older competition as a true freshman. And it was both of their first appearance at the Men's tournament.

Let's also not overlook that the tournament was on the larger Euro ice surface and played under IIHF rules...both of which played to the advantage of Carlsson.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Sweden was counting on Carlsson to be the hero and he didn't do the job.

No they weren't. He wasn't even in the top 50 in scoring in the SHL why would they expect him to already be carrying a national team?

He got a lot of minutes but that's mainly because the other players were underperforming and they expected those other players to step up.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Carlsson tire pumping in here too eh.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Carlsson tire pumping in here too eh.

Yup, because despite Carlsson is not built for the playoffs despite having one of the best playoffs by a draft eligible in SHL history. I think it’s very close, but the hard line Fantilli and Carlsson fanboys have crazy blinders on and objectivity is out the window.

 

[Gliff]

I honestly don’t care which the Ducks get. They are both gonna be studs and I trust our scouts.

 

[HanSolo]

While that's true, Fantilli also spent the last season mainly playing against older competition as a true freshman. And it was both of their first appearance at the Men's tournament.

Right but there's a far cry difference between some whatever NCAA senior and a European pro who makes the national team. Like yeah they're the best of guys not good enough to play in the NHL but the SHL isn't some slouch league. In a small sample tournament, of course the guy who is used to playing bigger and faster bodies is going to adapt to the situation better. He also got the benefit of playing on the same line most of the tournament, or at least Lucas Raymond was the constant. Fantilli was bounced around until they settled on Lucic and Glass which was obviously not a good chemistry fit.

I think for me I was looking at both guys within the context of what their experience is and what it's going to take to adapt their game at an NHL level. Carlsson is built to be an NHL pro. I think the difference for me, having not abandoned my Ducks fandom, is Fantilli seems to have the wider range of strengths that he can execute at a higher pace if everything pans out with his development and he plays in more of the mold that I think Anaheim needs. Comes back to the common thread that Carlsson has the higher floor but Fantilli has the higher ceiling. Don't get me wrong. Whether Anaheim ends up with Fantilli or Carlsson I know they're getting an elite prospect and their best prospect since Getzlaf and Perry. But I don't view the WC as a tipping point as to putting Carlsson over Fantilli.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I've come to accept that the Ducks will probably (80%) draft Carlsson, Columbus will draft Smith and SJ will get Fantilli.
As long as we don't end up with picking tiny man Michkov i'm happy with one of Smith, Carlsson or Fantilli. Michkov might never play in the NHL if Russian government suddenly changes its mind, it could be one of their ways of punishing the west or a dictator who wants the next Ovi to play only for Russia.

 

[ORRFForever]

I honestly don’t care which the Ducks get. They are both gonna be studs and I trust our scouts.

Exactly. The better player is a coin flip so don't sweat it.

 

[MessierII]

I think he’ll be the disappointment of the draft

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I think he’ll be the disappointment of the draft

It appears like he's about to be Shane Wrighted to #4 overall.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I think he’ll be the disappointment of the draft

I think this board is becoming an echo chamber of Carlsson fanboys / Fantilli detractors. Bob said 9 out of 10 scouts had Fantilli second and that was a bit of a reality check to me.

He’s closer to his final form I get that but he was the best player in the NCAA a year ago and does everything incredibly well. Seems like people are talking themselves into this because they either only saw him at the worlds or are latching onto one or two data points. The whole picture is an exceptional prospect as far as I can tell.

 

[Dominance]

I've come to accept that the Ducks will probably (80%) draft Carlsson, Columbus will draft Smith and SJ will get Fantilli.
As long as we don't end up with picking tiny man Michkov i'm happy with one of Smith, Carlsson or Fantilli. Michkov might never play in the NHL if Russian government suddenly changes its mind, it could be one of their ways of punishing the west or a dictator who wants the next Ovi to play only for Russia.

You’re stuck in a one-man echo chamber. It’s oddly impressive.

 

[ohcomeonref]

 

[paulmm3]

Guy's about to become a Fantillionaire (sorry)

 

[jj cale]

I find it odd to see the amount of criticism Fantilli has received for a freshman player who has won the Hobey Baker and has his size/skillset.

Strange stuff and I've got to wonder what's really behind that.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

I find it odd to see the amount of criticism Fantilli has received for a freshman player who has won the Hobey Baker and has his size/skillset.

Strange stuff and I've got to wonder what's really behind that.

My guess is because he was underwhelming at the world juniors given the hype.

Edit: I think there was a night and day difference between him playing for Canada vs him playing in Uni.

 

[SouthernCal]

Canadian Mike Modano.