Dreger: Buchnevich is likely to be traded

[Robtom18]

can switch to the 2024 1st doesnt really matter that much. we arent going to give up a top 10 pick for either of these guys so if thats the only thing that gets it done then i understand but i suppose no deal to be made with detroit

Yep no deal you want the best two deadline players for bad offers.

 

[POVERTY]

Put that man on McDavid's wing for reasons totally unrelated to my fantasy team

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Yzerman could trade for Buchnevich, re-sign him at next season, and then trade him to another organization.

Nothing will prevent him doing that, he already did it with JT Miller.

Tampa Subbaned Miller (traded before he was of age to have his NTC kick in). Buchnevich’s NTC will be active right away.

 

[Robtom18]

Tampa Subbaned Miller (traded before he was of age to have his NTC kick in). Buchnevich’s NTC will be active right away.

He has 1 more year left then nt kicks in.

Put that man on McDavid's wing for reasons totally unrelated to my fantasy team

Yeah well oilers do not have what blues need

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

He has 1 more year left then nt kicks in.


Yeah well oilers do not have what blues need

The scenario was trading him 2+ years from now.

Interestingly, Buchnevich does have an active 12 team NTC. You have to assume Canada by default in 2024. Maybe add Anaheim and San Jose (California taxes) and then the tri-state area teams (New York/New Jersey taxes and Drury traded him).

 

[Robtom18]

The scenario was trading him 2+ years from now.

Interestingly, Buchnevich does have an active 12 team NTC. You have to assume Canada by default in 2024. Maybe add Anaheim and San Jose (California taxes) and then the tri-state area teams (New York/New Jersey taxes and Drury traded him).

Dude its about more than just taxes. I bet he would want to win a cup so most contenders would be on the table. Only thing is edm doesnt have what blues need. Vancouver does but i doubt they trade willander but if they did i bet he would go there. He came from nyr and is friends with panarin. His 12 no team list would be to crap teams where he couldnt compete for cup.

 

[mab894]

Yep no deal you want the best two deadline players for bad offers.

Armstrong's M.O. is usually not to wait til he sees the best offer. In the Tarasenko, ROR, Barbashev deals he didn't wait til a bidding war started up, instead he pulled the trigger when a team made what he felt was a fair offer. Of course, there is no reason for the Blues to accept a so-so offer. He won't be traded for anything less than 2 firsts but I don't know if we will get "the best offer possible" either.

 

[Petes2424]

Armstrong's M.O. is usually not to wait til he sees the best offer. In the Tarasenko, ROR, Barbashev deals he didn't wait til a bidding war started up, instead he pulled the trigger when a team made what he felt was a fair offer. Of course, there is no reason for the Blues to accept a so-so offer. He won't be traded for anything less than 2 firsts but I don't know if we will get "the best offer possible" either.

While I disagree that he won’t be traded for anything less than two 1st rounders, this is who Armstrong is.

He’s not into trying to rip anyone off. It’s one of the reasons he’s so respected around the league. That doesn’t mean he lets other managers walk all over him either. His watching morning skates Saturday with Yzerman, is exactly how many of his deals originate. If it makes sense for the Blues, he’ll make the deal. Even if we don’t see the results tomorrow.

The Leddy deal was a perfect example. Leddy fit into where the Blues were at, more than he fit in Detroit. Walman becoming what he has, probably hasn’t surprised Armstrong at all. They just couldn’t really afford Walman’s insane ups and downs, before he matured into what he’s now becoming. Those mistakes had to take place in the NHL, “if” Walman was ever going to be a consistent NHL dman. Detroit was a team who could give him that ice-time, while the Blues couldn’t.

So value to fans and media, has NEVER effected how Armstrong does business. Fans are usually very praising of a deal, or they hate it. While the managers understand more of what they’re actually getting, or trading away.

I’ll just throw a hypothetical out there. If he got a 1st, Joe Veleno and Cross Hanas from Detroit for Buchnevich, fans (in this site) would probably think he got ripped off. We’d see all the Yzerplan and Wizard GM crap posts, ripping on Armstrong. Then we’d wake up in 3 years to Joe Veleno being Adam Henrique, Cross Hanas being Brandon Hagel and that 1st Round pick playing in their Top 4.

You’d find very few people on here who’d admit they were completely against that trade, as it happened. It’s the trade really good hockey managers make though. Not necessarily with those exact players, but they see things fans and the media don’t. They expect a player to develop into a certain type of player, the fans and media also don’t. They understand, a player at 21-22 will likely be a much different player at 26-27.

Armstrong is by far, a Top 5 manager in the NHL. If he makes a deal, fans should (at least) trust why he’s doing the deal. Doesn’t have to be a blind trust, but at least understand why a move is made.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I love how you omit the 2024 1st, or lack of any top prospect, especially on the Hanifin deal which is already atrocious.

Teams who've traded their 2024 1st-round pick outright or otherwise have conditions attached that might cause it to move to another team:

Calgary
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Detroit
Boston
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Florida

So no, Detroit can't just outright move its 2024 1st at the moment. [It has the choice of whether to send its 1st or Boston's 1st to Ottawa, presumably it will send the less favorable of the two which is currently Boston's.] Whether it can commit its 1st anyway on the condition that it doesn't transfer its pick to Ottawa is a Central Registry question.

 

[datsyukfan]

Teams who've traded their 2024 1st-round pick outright or otherwise have conditions attached that might cause it to move to another team:

Calgary
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Detroit
Boston
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Florida

So no, Detroit can't just outright move its 2024 1st at the moment. [It has the choice of whether to send its 1st or Boston's 1st to Ottawa, presumably it will send the less favorable of the two which is currently Boston's.] Whether it can commit its 1st anyway on the condition that it doesn't transfer its pick to Ottawa is a Central Registry question.

So Detroit could just move it’s other first on the condition “best of either theirs or bostons 1st”

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So Detroit could just move it’s other first on the condition “best of either theirs or bostons 1st”

It depends on how exactly the condition is written in the Ottawa trade. The later trade can't deprive Ottawa of options it might have had available.

If it's "Detroit has the option of ____" it would probably have to be worded as "whichever pick does not transfer to Ottawa." Saying "the better of our pick or Boston's pick" arguably deprives Ottawa of the opportunity to get the better pick, even if it's 99.9% likely right now that Detroit would send the Boston pick. If it's at Detroit's discretion, then if the Red Wings commit both picks it could choose to send its own pick to Ottawa and Boston's pick somewhere else.

If it's "Detroit will send the later of _____," then it could say "the better of _____" in a 2nd trade but it would still probably be worded as "whichever pick does not transfer to Ottawa."

But again, that presumes Detroit can attach a condition to its own draft pick when it's technically encumbered by another trade right now. I think it could, but I'm not interested enough to go do the research to see when (if, how often) that's happened in the past.

 

[datsyukfan]

Here is the condition

Conditions: Detroit has the option to send their own or Boston's 2024 1st round pick. In the event the Bruins' 2024 1st round selection is a top-10 pick, Boston can retain the pick and transfer their 2025 1st round pick instead. Detroit will then have the option of sending Boston's 2025 unprotected 1st or their own 2024 1st to Ottawa.

 

[Robtom18]

Armstrong's M.O. is usually not to wait til he sees the best offer. In the Tarasenko, ROR, Barbashev deals he didn't wait til a bidding war started up, instead he pulled the trigger when a team made what he felt was a fair offer. Of course, there is no reason for the Blues to accept a so-so offer. He won't be traded for anything less than 2 firsts but I don't know if we will get "the best offer possible" either.

With buch being thw absolute best forward. There will be q bidding war. To many contenders would rather have him thenhave him against him. You wait and see. I think we have just about 10 days right

 

[Drubilly]

While I disagree that he won’t be traded for anything less than two 1st rounders, this is who Armstrong is.

He’s not into trying to rip anyone off. It’s one of the reasons he’s so respected around the league. That doesn’t mean he lets other managers walk all over him either. His watching morning skates Saturday with Yzerman, is exactly how many of his deals originate. If it makes sense for the Blues, he’ll make the deal. Even if we don’t see the results tomorrow.

The Leddy deal was a perfect example. Leddy fit into where the Blues were at, more than he fit in Detroit. Walman becoming what he has, probably hasn’t surprised Armstrong at all. They just couldn’t really afford Walman’s insane ups and downs, before he matured into what he’s now becoming. Those mistakes had to take place in the NHL, “if” Walman was ever going to be a consistent NHL dman. Detroit was a team who could give him that ice-time, while the Blues couldn’t.

So value to fans and media, has NEVER effected how Armstrong does business. Fans are usually very praising of a deal, or they hate it. While the managers understand more of what they’re actually getting, or trading away.

I’ll just throw a hypothetical out there. If he got a 1st, Joe Veleno and Cross Hanas from Detroit for Buchnevich, fans (in this site) would probably think he got ripped off. We’d see all the Yzerplan and Wizard GM crap posts, ripping on Armstrong. Then we’d wake up in 3 years to Joe Veleno being Adam Henrique, Cross Hanas being Brandon Hagel and that 1st Round pick playing in their Top 4.

You’d find very few people on here who’d admit they were completely against that trade, as it happened. It’s the trade really good hockey managers make though. Not necessarily with those exact players, but they see things fans and the media don’t. They expect a player to develop into a certain type of player, the fans and media also don’t. They understand, a player at 21-22 will likely be a much different player at 26-27.

Armstrong is by far, a Top 5 manager in the NHL. If he makes a deal, fans should (at least) trust why he’s doing the deal. Doesn’t have to be a blind trust, but at least understand why a move is made.

 

[Homesick]

All Blues players are untouchable and will need a massive overpayment to move them. Don't believe me? Just browse any Blues-related thread
Edit: I should clarify that two vocal Blues fans will spam every Blues-related thread

 

[ManofSteel55]

All Blues players are untouchable and will need a massive overpayment to move them. Don't believe me? Just browse any Blues-related thread

I feel like that's just an HF thing.

 

[bleedblue1223]

All Blues players are untouchable and will need a massive overpayment to move them. Don't believe me? Just browse any Blues-related thread

I mean, obviously depends on the player. In this case, it's pretty much been reported that Army has a high price and is willing to hold if the price isn't met. We really don't know if an extension is possible, so that's still a possibility, but if it's not, a move at the draft or next deadline also makes sense. If we essentially just get offered what we'd get next deadline, no point in making a deal now.

And yes, I know a particular poster puts crazy high prices on our players. Don't assume that's how we all think.

 

[BlueDream]

All Blues players are untouchable and will need a massive overpayment to move them. Don't believe me? Just browse any Blues-related thread

Yes, other teams fans are totally reasonable and agree to give their players away for cheap offers.

 

[PocketNines]

While I disagree that he won’t be traded for anything less than two 1st rounders, this is who Armstrong is.

He’s not into trying to rip anyone off. It’s one of the reasons he’s so respected around the league. That doesn’t mean he lets other managers walk all over him either. His watching morning skates Saturday with Yzerman, is exactly how many of his deals originate. If it makes sense for the Blues, he’ll make the deal. Even if we don’t see the results tomorrow.

The Leddy deal was a perfect example. Leddy fit into where the Blues were at, more than he fit in Detroit. Walman becoming what he has, probably hasn’t surprised Armstrong at all. They just couldn’t really afford Walman’s insane ups and downs, before he matured into what he’s now becoming. Those mistakes had to take place in the NHL, “if” Walman was ever going to be a consistent NHL dman. Detroit was a team who could give him that ice-time, while the Blues couldn’t.

So value to fans and media, has NEVER effected how Armstrong does business. Fans are usually very praising of a deal, or they hate it. While the managers understand more of what they’re actually getting, or trading away.

I’ll just throw a hypothetical out there. If he got a 1st, Joe Veleno and Cross Hanas from Detroit for Buchnevich, fans (in this site) would probably think he got ripped off. We’d see all the Yzerplan and Wizard GM crap posts, ripping on Armstrong. Then we’d wake up in 3 years to Joe Veleno being Adam Henrique, Cross Hanas being Brandon Hagel and that 1st Round pick playing in their Top 4.

You’d find very few people on here who’d admit they were completely against that trade, as it happened. It’s the trade really good hockey managers make though. Not necessarily with those exact players, but they see things fans and the media don’t. They expect a player to develop into a certain type of player, the fans and media also don’t. They understand, a player at 21-22 will likely be a much different player at 26-27.

Armstrong is by far, a Top 5 manager in the NHL. If he makes a deal, fans should (at least) trust why he’s doing the deal. Doesn’t have to be a blind trust, but at least understand why a move is made.

Bolded is a patently ridiculous conclusion. It says nothing. It says, fans need to understand there's a reason a manager does things. What you're doing is going further and explaining how that reason is going to be accurate going forward and this was fully foreseen.

But of course that does not hold up to the slightest scrutiny. The team directly sucks now because this man has made a series of decisions tying himself to albotrosses like Kyrou and an umovable Krug. In "by far a top 5" wise management judgment, Krug plus more ice time for Parayko is an adequate replacement.

A couple months ago after Berube was fired he told fans we are pursuing the LA rebuild plan, and they had picks #2 and #5 overall in the last few years and there is no chance the Blues can do anything like that. So untouchable is Armstrong from judgment that there are just people offering themselevs up to be his sycophants. An example of this would be noticing him talk to Yzerman and then choosing to create a narrative that this is deep competence. Your Walman story is absolutely hilarious fiction. Your tale is that the Blues could not suffer the (relatively brief handful of) games it has taken Walman to level up?

I just don't understand what is gained from creating this type of tale. Feeling less anxiety that the guy in control is not going to get it done?

 

[Beauterham]

All Blues players are untouchable and will need a massive overpayment to move them. Don't believe me? Just browse any Blues-related thread

Something tells me your experience with Blues related topics would be a lot better if you put a certain Blues fan on ignore.

 

[Homesick]

Something tells me your experience with Blues-related topics would be a lot better if you put a certain Blues fan on ignore.

Agreed Fixed my original post

 

[Xerloris]

Armstrong's M.O. is usually not to wait til he sees the best offer. In the Tarasenko, ROR, Barbashev deals he didn't wait til a bidding war started up, instead he pulled the trigger when a team made what he felt was a fair offer. Of course, there is no reason for the Blues to accept a so-so offer. He won't be traded for anything less than 2 firsts but I don't know if we will get "the best offer possible" either.

Tarasenko had a full NTC and said he would accept a trade to the Rangers. Armstrong had 2 choices, get nothing or trade him to the Rangers. ROR and Barbashev were actually nice returns and I doubt anyone would have beat those offers.

 

[CornKicker]

the blues deserve something of value back for Buch,

id say hes for sure worth an edmonton oiler who holds franchise records in an offensive category.

buchnevich for sam gagner and a 2nd

 

[bleedblue1223]

the blues deserve something of value back for Buch,

id say hes for sure worth an edmonton oiler who holds franchise records in an offensive category.

buchnevich for sam gagner and a 2nd

How is that guy still playing?

 

[mab894]

Tarasenko had a full NTC and said he would accept a trade to the Rangers. Armstrong had 2 choices, get nothing or trade him to the Rangers. ROR and Barbashev were actually nice returns and I doubt anyone would have beat those offers.

Maybe, maybe not. Once a team offered his asking price he didn't wait around to see if anyone would top that return.