Bruins vs Isles

[ToneDog]

Did that actually happen? Verified? Simmonds was a fine signing but I 100% would have rather had Perry than Thornton even at time of signing.

Heard it from Kypreos and Brady and a few have mentioned it as well. I found it hard to believe. Worst case you sign Perry and Simmonds after Cliffy turned them down if you really want to be more difficult to play against. We gotta hope he does better this summer or it will be a long, painful winter and spring.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Heard it from Kypreos and Brady and a few have mentioned it as well. I found it hard to believe. Worst case you sign Perry and Simmonds after Cliffy turned them down if you really want to be more difficult to play against. We gotta hope he does better this summer or it will be a long, painful winter and spring.

Wow... Didn't know that. I was really hoping for Perry last summer too. Really makes me wonder what is going to happen this summer... You'd have to think if Montreal gets past Winnipeg that they will try hard to extend him.

 

[ToneDog]

Wow... Didn't know that. I was really hoping for Perry last summer too. Really makes me wonder what is going to happen this summer... You'd have to think if Montreal gets past Winnipeg that they will try hard to extend him.

Many wanted Perry the summer he went to Dallas. The same Dallas team that went to the SCF that year with Seguin playing with a serious injury.

 

[Maple Leaf]

This right here

Instead of have playboys

 

[rumman]

At present he’s burning soup.

couldn't boil water.........

 

[rumman]

I think Lou's 35+ years in the game and 3x Stanley Cups with the modern dynasty New Jersey Devils makes him magically a lot better than Kyle Dubas, but that's not to say the philosophical underpinnings of his success (more program based blue collar programs, de-emphasizing offensive star power) is what the fanbase wants, or that people wanted to see a hard line taken with our stars. Finally, Lou being a HHOF caliber GM also doesn't preclude Kyle from eventually becoming a great GM in his own right.

there will always be a job for Kyle in the Soo, he might even be a HOF OHL GM some day, with luck, but he's only going to be a footnote of bad mgmt in the NHL............

 

[rumman]

The only thing the Leafs gained by replacing Kadri with Tavares was an extra $6.5m of salary.

Although the pyjama photo op was a cute PR gimmick.

JT was definitely a luxury that the Leafs couldn't afford with pending RFA's waiting for Dubas behind the woodshed..........

 

[ToneDog]

there will always be a job for Kyle in the Soo, he might even be a HOF OHL GM some day, with luck, but he's only going to be a footnote of bad mgmt in the NHL............

Present day Gord Stellick.

 

[rumman]

Bog was a great pick up imo and Brodie was also but yea to think that Joe and Wayne were going to add the elements we needed was ill advised. I think Dubas felt that these guys know its the end for them so they will give everything they have which in theory sounds good but in reality it was not a good read.

adding Bogo and Brodie were boy wonders best moves to date, but even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day...........

 

[Mitch Matthews]

And Babcock

No doubt. Babcock would have stapled him to the bench early in the series

 

[Donnie740]

there will always be a job for Kyle in the Soo, he might even be a HOF OHL GM some day, with luck, but he's only going to be a footnote of bad mgmt in the NHL............

Dubas is the second coming if Gord Stellick.

Inexperienced and incompetent little kids who were inexplicably put in charge of the Leafs.

Dubas might get one more job like Stellick did as a front office coffee fetch and photocopy gimp, but that’ll be the extent of his NHL “career” too.

I expect Dubas will also end up hosting a call in show on the FAN590 about fantasy hockey leagues and building an NHL21 dynasty.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

2 wins away from their 6th series win in 3 years. BuT tHeY hAvEnT wOn a CuP.

It's still not a cup.

 

[ponder]

Yeah apparently Lou Was too stupid to keep in Toronto do you I’m glad we didn’t hang onto him and we got Kyle lmao

Isles pre-Lou:

• Missed the playoffs the previous 2 years, had only won 1 playoff series in the past 24 seasons
• Just lost their franchise player (to us!), appeared to have a bleak future
• They were also terrible defensively - literally last in the league in goals against

But Lou hired Trotz and instantly turned them into a hard working, gritty, top notch defensive team that gets it done in the playoffs. Literally went from last in goals against to first in just one season. Made it to the 2nd round his first year, 3rd round his 2nd year, and currently in the 2nd round with a legit shot to go further.

Meanwhile Dubas:

• Inherited an absolutely incredible young core
• Also inherited a very good cap situation

And ... he goes out and adds an $11 mil forward that we don’t need (good player, but not what we needed), massively overpays our RFAs, and generally builds teams that are mentally and physically soft, that fall to pieces in the playoffs. 3 straight first round losses. Yes, he’s done a very good job improving the D on a limited budget, but he’s made too many major mistakes.

Shanny f***ed up HARD going with an unproven young exec over a literal living legend who’s still a phenomenal GM. I absolutely believe we’d have had some deep playoff runs already if we’d stuck with Lou.

 

[Menzinger]

This is an example of where I question Dubas’ “analytics” or at least how he applies them

Both Leo and Matt Martin enjoy regular shifts in the post season on a final 8 team... again.

but not good enough for ours?

The funny thing here. He gets made a regular season healthy scratch by Babcock while Lou is still GM. Dubas' later trades him because his coach has no interest in that type of player. Once Babcock is fired Dubas' traded for Clifford. When Clifford doesn't resign, the Leafs spend the money on Simmonds instead. Babcock also made Leo a healthy scratch in the playoffs in what would have been his last game for Andreas Johnsson.

Maybe the narrative around Dubas' and some of these types of players is misplaced?

 

[egd27]

there will always be a job for Kyle in the Soo, he might even be a HOF OHL GM some day, with luck, but he's only going to be a footnote of bad mgmt in the NHL............

Is there an Expected HOF?

 

[Bluelines]

Where to start?
Orr/Esposito
Toews/Kane
Sakic/Foresberg
Trottier/Bossy
You get the idea.
Hull/Makita
Stars win you Cups.
Always have.
Always will.
Crosby/Malkin
Etc....

Yup they do and we have 4 of the best forwards in the League.

 

[Donnie740]

Yup they do and we have 4 of the best forwards in the League.

Joe Thornton and Pat Marleau are both in the Top 50 all time scorers - - and they consistently choked every year in the playoffs.

Having talent is wonderful - - but without the relentless drive to succeed and ability to deliver under pressure, it’s useless.

Just like Thornton and Marleau were in SJ.

 

[WildWolfdog]

Isles pre-Lou:

• Missed the playoffs the previous 2 years, had only won 1 playoff series in the past 24 seasons
• Just lost their franchise player (to us!), appeared to have a bleak future
• They were also terrible defensively - literally last in the league in goals against

But Lou hired Trotz and instantly turned them into a hard working, gritty, top notch defensive team that gets it done in the playoffs. Literally went from last in goals against to first in just one season. Made it to the 2nd round his first year, 3rd round his 2nd year, and currently in the 2nd round with a legit shot to go further.

Meanwhile Dubas:

• Inherited an absolutely incredible young core
• Also inherited a very good cap situation

And ... he goes out and adds an $11 mil forward that we don’t need (good player, but not what we needed), massively overpays our RFAs, and generally builds teams that are mentally and physically soft, that fall to pieces in the playoffs. 3 straight first round losses. Yes, he’s done a very good job improving the D on a limited budget, but he’s made too many major mistakes.

Shanny f***ed up HARD going with an unproven young exec over a literal living legend who’s still a phenomenal GM. I absolutely believe we’d have had some deep playoff runs already if we’d stuck with Lou.

How many times will we need to go over this stuff? Lou was REALLY good with the Leafs early on (Lou Island + Phaneuf trade + Kadri/Reilly extensions) but then f***ed up in major ways near the end of his reign.

1. Signing Zaitsev to a 7 year deal after 1 year - Leafs had to pay to get out of it.

2. Signing Matt Martin to his 4 year deal - this was fine when Leafs had cap room galore but it was sunk cost afterwards.

3. Patrick Marleau getting a 3rd year of $6+ million when no one else would touch it - this was an albatross and Leafs had to pay a 1st to get out of it.

4. Some people might say this is not on Lou but I think it definitely is - he left the extension for Nylander until the last moment knowing the other two were also coming up for potential pay days.

5. He's the one who Marner and his camp had an issue with (being sent down and not getting the signing bonus etc) which they foolishly made up for in the current contract which could mean Marner has to get moved.

6. Let's not forget that Lou TRIED HIS BEST to keep Tavares. He didn't decide to show him the door, Tavares left. At the time it was a huge loss for the Islanders and they've managed to overcome it which is great for them.

Dubas has made mistakes as well but Lou isn't this perfect GM that people seem to keep bringing up. He's used up a lot of their cap space and Islanders don't have many stars or ability to land any stars.

 

[Donnie740]

Anybody think Dubas will win 3 Cups in his career as a GM and be elected into the Hall of Fame?

Me neither.

 

[Superstar]

Anybody think Dubas will win 3 Cups in his career as a GM and be elected into the Hall of Fame?

Me neither.

Not asking for much, but maybe 1 Cup next year if he brings back Joe Thornton...

 

[Donnie740]

Not asking for much, but maybe 1 Cup next year if he brings back Joe Thornton...

There’s a better chance of the Raptors winning an NBA championship with Joe Thornton as their starting C than there is of the Leafs winning a Cup with him.

 

[Stigma]

Some good points made above by WildWolfdog, but there's an explanation for some of them.

1. Signing Zaitsev to a 7 year deal after 1 year - Leafs had to pay to get out of it.

Yes, bad move. For sure. Too much money. Mind you, my Sens friends do like him on the team. He's not a total dud. But the contract was not good.

2. Signing Matt Martin to his 4 year deal - this was fine when Leafs had cap room galore but it was sunk cost afterwards.

This one is tricky. He was probably given this contract with the expectation that M and M and Nylander would not have demanded so much money. Martin is a playoff performer though. Look at Clutterbuck, Martin and Cizikas in the Isles series. They are a huge factor.

3. Patrick Marleau getting a 3rd year of $6+ million when no one else would touch it - this was an albatross and Leafs had to pay a 1st to get out of it.

The adding of the third year was not a great move, no, but I believe the expectation was the same as listed above (reasonable M and M cap hits), which would have allowed for him to stay that extra year.

4. Some people might say this is not on Lou but I think it definitely is - he left the extension for Nylander until the last moment knowing the other two were also coming up for potential pay days.

There's usually more to the story than what we know in such situations.

5. He's the one who Marner and his camp had an issue with (being sent down and not getting the signing bonus etc) which they foolishly made up for in the current contract which could mean Marner has to get moved.

Now this I disagree with. This was a good move! I think Lou realized, early on, what colossal d-bags the Marner camp was and pulled a power move on them. Some people have to be approached in this manner. Especially if you're dealing with narcissists. He knows the psychology of leadership and how to approach different individuals to inflate or deflate their egos. It's a fine art.

6. Let's not forget that Lou TRIED HIS BEST to keep Tavares. He didn't decide to show him the door, Tavares left. At the time it was a huge loss for the Islanders and they've managed to overcome it which is great for them.

I don't think he had that much control over that. Tavares's wife wanted to practice medicine in Toronto.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Shh9ukd bring back lou

 

[Pookie]

The funny thing here. He gets made a regular season healthy scratch by Babcock while Lou is still GM. Dubas' later trades him because his coach has no interest in that type of player. Once Babcock is fired Dubas' traded for Clifford. When Clifford doesn't resign, the Leafs spend the money on Simmonds instead. Babcock also made Leo a healthy scratch in the playoffs in what would have been his last game for Andreas Johnsson.

Maybe the narrative around Dubas' and some of these types of players is misplaced?

Martin got benched for standing up to Babcock in the Mitch Marner list situation.

Had nothing to do with Babcock's interest in "that type of player."

 

[Pookie]

Let's not create a fake narrative about Dubas really wanting physicality and big bad Babcock stood in his way.

Dubas' views on the roster without Komarov and Martin:
Dubas will not go shopping for physicality

There is concern the Maple Leafs — a group that, comparatively, eschews penalties and body checking — lack the sandpaper on the roster to survive a long, gruelling playoff run, where whistles tend to get tucked away.

Dubas said in constructing his roster — now free of rugged characters like Matt Martin, Leo Komarov and Roman Polak — he looks at the Atlantic Division rivals first.

“For whatever reason, that takes on a life of its own — the whole ‘toughness’ question. I look at Tampa Bay, they’re eight or nine points ahead of us now, and they built their team their way. I understand it’s at every level, whether it’s been Sault Ste. Marie or the Marlies, it’s been the same question,” Dubas said.

“I don’t buy it, myself. I know that there are a lot of pundits that say you have to have it, but I look at the teams that have had success, and I don’t think bringing in one big person is going to change our culture — and it’s not going to have us carry on with the process we’ve started.

“We want to have skill, we want to be fast, and we want to be competitive. I don’t really think that the way that the league is going that having someone that can come in and fight or anything like that is going to change that. We’ve got a way that we want to play, and we’re just going to carry on with that. In the end, people will judge whether it was effective.”

Leafs GM Kyle Dubas talks offer sheets, toughness and blue-line status - Sportsnet.ca