Bruins vs Isles

[4thline]

They have a brand new building. They need a product with tangible results to sell to their fans.

Again, this area is a gold mine. They could be one of the more profitable franchises if they can draw more fans. Rangers take a huge piece of the pie. New owners want more. How do you do that? Playoff gates.

True, but do you remember what followed the Quinn era in Toronto, the Lou era in NJ?
Will these fans in a very competitive market stick around?

 

[sparxx87]

True, but do you remember what followed the Quinn era in Toronto, the Lou era in NJ?
Will these fans in a very competitive market stick around?

Which is why I think you could be right..

...but in the meantime, that’s a whole lot of millions, and a whole lot of fun moments for fans that will hopefully endear them for a long time.

Big picture you have the more sensible approach, but pro sports are a different animal. A lot can change in 5 years.

 

[Pookie]

Maybe, but I don't see how it doesn't result in where he left the Devils. I really do see a time bomb. It's a team in the true sense of the word, every piece matters and they're getting more than the sum of their parts. But it's not sustainable financially unless several guys take like 50% discounts, when a couple guys start falling off from age or are lost to cap I think it crumbles, and with no plan to reload.

I think the Quinn era example is very apt, especially given the financial strength of the org.

so our situation is sustainable?

Matthews pending UFA status in 3 years? JT on a NMC and years left? Rielly’s pendingUFA status. trading away draft picks?

 

[RoadWarrior]

I’m cringing at how laughably misguided those comments by Dubas turned out to be.

The little kid truly does not have the slightest clue.

Yeah Dubas is and was out to lunch on the whole toughness question. Even more importantly he seems to place greater value on large data sets collected in relatively meaningless games vs critical games such as elimination games which of course are smaller sample sizes but very important. Of course that raises questions about the value of analytics in hockey entirely which has no measurement for heart and character.

A good historical example would be the 1980 "miracle on ice" Olympics where you had a team USA composed of entirely amateur - mostly college - players defeat the very best of the Soviet Union. On paper it should have been a cakewalk for the Soviets but in individual games heart and work ethic can make an enormous difference.

"Moneypuck" i.e. "the process" isn't working and like the emperor with no clothes everyone knows it except the management at MLSE.

 

[4thline]

so our situation is sustainable?

Matthews pending UFA status in 3 years? JT on a NMC and years left? Rielly’s pendingUFA status. trading away draft picks?

JT's contract ends at an age younger than Sundin played post cap. He's a 1c and will likely continue to be.
We can't formally sign Matthews prior to his NMC kicking in, but you can bet that we'll be talking beforehand. If signs aren't good his trade is literally a one step retool. If he's re-signed, moot.
We picked 12 times last season, have a 10-15 prospect pool

 

[Kurtz]

Discrediting Lou because "it's all Trotz" is as cheesy an argument as it is when people say so and so team wouldn't be as good if they didn't have an elite goalie. Last I checked, they were just as part of the team/solution. You can't "fault" a GM for handpicking the right coach and/or drafting/signing a game-changing goalie.

Who is this game-changing goalie? Varlamov? Sorokin? Lehner? Greiss? Look up Greiss' numbers the year before Trotz got there vs after.

Funny how every goalie that they tried under Trotz turned from journeyman into a "game-changing" goalie overnight.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Who is this game-changing goalie? Varlamov? Sorokin? Lehner? Greiss? Look up Greiss' numbers the year before Trotz got there vs after.

Funny how every goalie that they tried under Trotz turned from journeyman into a "game-changing" goalie overnight.

I wasn't referencing the Islanders about a goalie.

I was moreso suggesting someone like Price and Montreal.

 

[egd27]

Lou is nothing special - a perfectly average GM. He sacrifices futures (picks, cap) to build above-average but unspectacular teams, and his successors pay for these sacrifices down the line. Devils fans were glad to get rid of him, and so were we at the time.

He made 1 amazing, opportunistic move. Trotz became available at just the right time, and he signed him. That's it. Trotz works miracles.

If you look at the rest of Lou's moves, it's the same story as here - trading away picks for vets and overpaying mediocre talent.

So you see merit in a GM selecting a high quality coach to get the most out of a team, I agree.

I'm guessing we probably disagree on the merits of selecting a coach because he's your ex-NHLer friend from the Soo.

 

[Brobust]

So you see merit in a GM selecting a high quality coach to get the most out of a team, I agree.

I'm guessing we probably disagree on the merits of selecting a coach because he's your ex-NHLer friend from the Soo.

I guess the leafs three young forwards having their best years under Keefe means that he sucks.

 

[hamzarocks]

Isles really 1 win away from another conference finals appearance

In 2018 when JT had signed and we were told that we would go to 1 ECSF and 2 Conference finals but never win in the 3 years we would be disappointed with that saying we haven't accomplished enough with the core

3 years later we haven't made it past the 1st round even once

Islanders are about to be Boston a team whicb we certainly would lose a 7 game series for this year and next. The islanders are simply a better team and organization at the moment than the leafs

 

[Pookie]

JT's contract ends at an age younger than Sundin played post cap. He's a 1c and will likely continue to be.
We can't formally sign Matthews prior to his NMC kicking in, but you can bet that we'll be talking beforehand. If signs aren't good his trade is literally a one step retool. If he's re-signed, moot.
We picked 12 times last season, have a 10-15 prospect pool

In reading my question about whether what we have is sustainable, I should have thought about it more.

Is what the Islanders have sustainable? Probably not, every franchise that has won goes through a challenging time. Cycle repeats.

Is what we have sustainable? Hopefully not. Considering we haven't won anything.

 

[egd27]

Moneypuck" i.e. "the process" isn't working and like the emperor with no clothes everyone knows it except the management at MLSE.

Wasn't the whole Moneyball approach a response to the fact that Beane was unable to compete financially so he was forced to find inexpensive players that could succeed in specific roles?

 

[Trapper]

In reading my question about whether what we have is sustainable, I should have thought about it more.

Is what the Islanders have sustainable? Probably not, every franchise that has won goes through a challenging time. Cycle repeats.

Is what we have sustainable? Hopefully not. Considering we haven't won anything.

The Islanders might need some change down the road for sustainability, but it’s not like they are 12 Leo Komarovs.

They have skill on the team in Barzal for the future, Eberle, Leddy, Mayfield, Dobson, etc.
And these guys are currently in the Lou/Trotz system to understand how you have that success. They might dip, they might change. There is no guarantee they win the Cup any more than us.
Matthews could pull a JT on us in 3 years. Who knows.

 

[Pookie]

Wasn't the whole Moneyball approach a response to the fact that Beane was unable to compete financially so he was forced to find inexpensive players that could succeed in specific roles?

Yes. Yes it was.

To me there are 2 questions here.

Is "Moneypuck" a thing that has value?

Are the people running our "Moneypuck" department any good at it?

Liverpool FC has a guy with a PhD running theirs.

 

[egd27]

I guess the leafs three young forwards having their best years under Keefe means that he sucks.

Their best years? Can you let me know what metric you are using?

I hope it's not points accumulated during a 56 game season where they didn't play another Top 10 team once.

 

[Pookie]

The Islanders might need some change down the road for sustainability, but it’s not like they are 12 Leo Komarovs.

They have skill on the team in Barzal for the future, Eberle, Leddy, Mayfield, Dobson, etc.
And these guys are currently in the Lou/Trotz system to understand how you have that success. They might dip, they might change. There is no guarantee they win the Cup any more than us.
Matthews could pull a JT on us in 3 years. Who knows.

On that Matthews leaving front... this section of the article I linked above regarding JT signing here is erie:

"Although Tavares had physically left (Toronto) years earlier, his friends admit there was always a strong connection. He lived and trained there in the summers. And, like most great players, he is acutely aware of what was going on in the league. It was not unusual for him to listen to Toronto sports radio to hear what was happening with the Leafs as he drove to and from practices or games. “We used to roll our eyes at it,” one teammate laughs.

Friends begrudgingly admit that during the tough moments after the deadline, the thought of leaving must have entered his mind. But they get noticeably angry (even over a phone line) at the suggestion he’d checked out. "

.... sounds really.... really... familiar

 

[Trapper]

On that Matthews leaving front... this section of the article I linked above regarding JT signing here is erie:

"Although Tavares had physically left (Toronto) years earlier, his friends admit there was always a strong connection. He lived and trained there in the summers. And, like most great players, he is acutely aware of what was going on in the league. It was not unusual for him to listen to Toronto sports radio to hear what was happening with the Leafs as he drove to and from practices or games. “We used to roll our eyes at it,” one teammate laughs.

Friends begrudgingly admit that during the tough moments after the deadline, the thought of leaving must have entered his mind. But they get noticeably angry (even over a phone line) at the suggestion he’d checked out. "

.... sounds really.... really... familiar

It’s eerily similar.
In 9 years on the Island, Tavares only made it past the first round once.
Matthews will be UFA around 9 years.
If the team fails again, the media will be twice as toxic.

But you know what, NYI survived.

 

[AvroArrow]

Our stars are entitled and the coach/gm don't have the balls to set them straight. That's the difference.

 

[Donnie740]

Their best years? Can you let me know what metric you are using?

I hope it's not points accumulated during a 56 game season where they didn't play another Top 10 team once.

Maybe he means they had their best playoffs ever under Keefe?

 

[tellermine]

Let's not create a fake narrative about Dubas really wanting physicality and big bad Babcock stood in his way.

Dubas' views on the roster without Komarov and Martin:
Dubas will not go shopping for physicality

There is concern the Maple Leafs — a group that, comparatively, eschews penalties and body checking — lack the sandpaper on the roster to survive a long, gruelling playoff run, where whistles tend to get tucked away.

Dubas said in constructing his roster — now free of rugged characters like Matt Martin, Leo Komarov and Roman Polak — he looks at the Atlantic Division rivals first.

“For whatever reason, that takes on a life of its own — the whole ‘toughness’ question. I look at Tampa Bay, they’re eight or nine points ahead of us now, and they built their team their way. I understand it’s at every level, whether it’s been Sault Ste. Marie or the Marlies, it’s been the same question,” Dubas said.

“I don’t buy it, myself. I know that there are a lot of pundits that say you have to have it, but I look at the teams that have had success, and I don’t think bringing in one big person is going to change our culture — and it’s not going to have us carry on with the process we’ve started.

“We want to have skill, we want to be fast, and we want to be competitive. I don’t really think that the way that the league is going that having someone that can come in and fight or anything like that is going to change that. We’ve got a way that we want to play, and we’re just going to carry on with that. In the end, people will judge whether it was effective.”

Leafs GM Kyle Dubas talks offer sheets, toughness and blue-line status - Sportsnet.ca

Oh. That is brutal...
It really starts to look like Dubas is not too qualified to job.

 

[3blizzard4]

The guy who hasn’t missed a single playoff game for the Islanders couldn’t keep up with the mighty Round One Maple Leafs?

He’s played PK mins there too. As well as PP.

also can’t dismiss his role with Marner. They were very good buddies. Dude was had a positive role here.

 

[egd27]

Maybe he means they had their best playoffs ever under Keefe?

So winning 3 games instead of 2 ? Sure ok

 

[Racer88]

I guess the leafs three young forwards having their best years under Keefe means that he sucks.

Of the three young forwards only 1 had their best year when it counted. The other 2 crapped the bed and failed big time

 

[Kurtz]

Isles really 1 win away from another conference finals appearance

In 2018 when JT had signed and we were told that we would go to 1 ECSF and 2 Conference finals but never win in the 3 years we would be disappointed with that saying we haven't accomplished enough with the core

3 years later we haven't made it past the 1st round even once

Islanders are about to be Boston a team whicb we certainly would lose a 7 game series for this year and next. The islanders are simply a better team and organization at the moment than the leafs

Boston outshot the Isles 44-19 last night. They've come back from being down 3-2 before...as we well know. Let's wait a few days until we write Boston's obituary.

 

[Kurtz]

So you see merit in a GM selecting a high quality coach to get the most out of a team, I agree.

I'm guessing we probably disagree on the merits of selecting a coach because he's your ex-NHLer friend from the Soo.

I'm in the Johnny Torts camp. If you won't touch the core, the next best thing is to get a coach who will make them sweat.