Bruins vs Isles

[sparxx87]

One of the biggest misperceptions is that "moneyball" and "analytics" are synonyms. One was a very specific and contextual use of analytics the other is the broader usage of statistics to help inform decision making which can take different forms.

Yeah. Moneyball is sensible in baseball, a game with far less variables.

Unfortunately, analytics available to the public in hockey actually miss more data than they record so they’re pretty useless.

Would be interesting to see what the professionals are tracking and how they apply it.

 

[AllDay28]

In April 1987, Devils then-owner John McMullenappointed Lamoriello team president. Lamoriello named himself general manager just before the start of the 1987–88 season, a move that surprised many NHL observers. He had never played, coached or managed in the NHL, and was virtually unknown outside the American college hockey community.


imagine Dubas did this. The old crew on here would have a collective brain aneurysm

 

[sparxx87]

so your opinion on if we should win changed when the GM changed? Interesting.

Were your expectations higher? Did Kyle put together what you assumed was a better team? What changed with the GM change that made you think this team should be winning these series?

A fundamental lack of understanding of the game of hockey from the (new) most important decision maker in the organization.

 

[sparxx87]

they got slapped by Boston and Washington too. But it was ok then cause we had the 80 year old GM and not the boy wonder.

Context is important.

 

[egd27]

One of the biggest misperceptions is that "moneyball" and "analytics" are synonyms. One was a very specific and contextual use of analytics the other is the broader usage of statistics to help inform decision making which can take different forms.

So what did I say that was incorrect?

 

[notbias]

A fundamental lack of understanding of the game of hockey from the most important decision maker in the organization.

What? So your expectations got higher when someone who you consider to have no knowledge of hockey was employed?

 

[AllDay28]

Context is important.

Nah you just have a problem with young people getting chances. Lou got the same start but it’s ok cause he’s old.

least Dubas worked his way up and didn’t anoint himself GM

 

[Menzinger]

So what did I say that was incorrect?

I didn't suggest there was anything incorrect, I was making a broader point. Folks sometimes throw around the phrase "money puck" (as they have in this thread) but no hockey team follows that approach.

 

[sparxx87]

What? So your expectations got higher when someone who you consider to have no knowledge of hockey was employed?

My expectations were of the team as inherited relative to the trajectory they were on.

Shanahan lost my confidence when he hired a stick boy.

 

[AllDay28]

Yeah. Moneyball is sensible in baseball, a game with far less variables.

Unfortunately, analytics available to the public in hockey actually miss more data than they record so they’re pretty useless.

Would be interesting to see what the professionals are tracking and how they apply it.

literally made up statements and catch phrase words like variables which actually mean nothing


In 2013, statistician Kevin Dayaratna and mathematician Steven J. Miller provided theoretical justification for applying the Pythagorean Expectation to ice hockey. In particular, they found that by making the same assumptions that Miller made in his 2007 study about baseball, specifically that goals scored and goals allowed follow statistically independentWeibull distributions, that the Pythagorean Expectation works just as well for ice hockey as it does for baseball. The Dayaratna and Miller study verified the statistical legitimacy of making these assumptions and estimated the Pythagorean exponent for ice hockey to be slightly above 2.

 

[sparxx87]

Nah you just have a problem with young people getting chances. Lou got the same start but it’s ok cause he’s old.

least Dubas worked his way up and didn’t anoint himself GM

Not at all. I focus on credentials, not age.

Lamoriello captained a collegiate hockey team. Dubas never made it out of minor hockey.

Lou impressed with his work in the game and got his start in that... Dubas skipped the line because of his grandfather.

 

[sparxx87]

literally made up statements and catch phrase words like variables which actually mean nothing


In 2013, statistician Kevin Dayaratna and mathematician Steven J. Miller provided theoretical justification for applying the Pythagorean Expectation to ice hockey. In particular, they found that by making the same assumptions that Miller made in his 2007 study about baseball, specifically that goals scored and goals allowed follow statistically independentWeibull distributions, that the Pythagorean Expectation works just as well for ice hockey as it does for baseball. The Dayaratna and Miller study verified the statistical legitimacy of making these assumptions and estimated the Pythagorean exponent for ice hockey to be slightly above 2.

What are their hockey credentials?

Let me guess...

 

[AllDay28]

Not at all. I focus on credentials, not age.

Lamoriello captained a collegiate hockey team. Dubas never made it out of minor.

Lou played 1 season? Of collegiate hockey based off his page and he was a “captain”?? And I care?

 

[notbias]

Not at all. I focus on credentials, not age.

Lamoriello captained a collegiate hockey team. Dubas never made it out of minor hockey.

Lou impressed with his work in the game and got his start in that... Dubas skipped the line because of his grandfather.

You should look up Jon Cooper and his qualifications for becoming a Stanely Cup winning coach

 

[sparxx87]

You should look up Jon Cooper and his qualifications for becoming a coach

You mean lacrosse, a game with similar fundamentals where a bright young guy might be able to cross over?

 

[AllDay28]

What are their hockey credentials?

Let me guess...

guess by your horrible logic we should of signed Wayne Gretzky to run the team. What’s his record again as GM/Coach?… right.

Also what about Scotty Bowman and his lack of playing experience?

 

[AllDay28]

You mean lacrosse, a game with similar fundamentals where a bright young guy might be able to cross over?

so I guess cricket players and baseball dudes can cross over cause it’s basically the same (bat, ball, field)

 

[Menzinger]

What are their hockey credentials?

Let me guess...

Michael Peterson - Director of Hockey Analytics

The analytics director of the reigning Stanley Cup champions and best managed team in hockey has a baseball, educational and business background. He may not even know how to skate.

 

[egd27]

Columbus was a slight underdog I believe, that is why I said heavily, lots of people had Columbus winning.

And we had someone like who they have in NY, it was the same results that you guys are complaining about.

A slight underdog? All we heard once Keefe took over was how awesome this team was, and the only reason we even had to qualify was because of Babcock.

CBJ was going to be a tune up according to the Dubites.

 

[sparxx87]

guess by your horrible logic we should of signed Wayne Gretzky to run the team. What’s his record again as GM/Coach?… right.

Also what about Scotty Bowman and his lack of playing experience?

Not ever great player makes a good coach. It’s not that simple, although again, I don’t expect you’ll understand.

 

[notbias]

You mean lacrosse, a game with similar fundamentals where a bright young guy might be able to cross over?

Are you Mark Hunter or something? Why do you hate Dubas? By your argument, Gretzky should have been a great coach, or maybe Roy should have.

You hate analytics too? It is going to be really awkward when you find out which teams use analytics the most.

 

[sparxx87]

Michael Peterson - Director of Hockey Analytics

The analytics director of the reigning Stanley Cup champions and best managed team in hockey has a baseball, educational and business background. He may not even know how to skate.

What decisions is he making? Or is that data passed on to Steve Yzerman and now his almost 10 year apprentice?

 

[sparxx87]

so I guess cricket players and baseball dudes can cross over cause it’s basically the same (bat, ball, field)

If you think so, that’s probably why you aren’t following.

 

[sparxx87]

Are you Mark Hunter or something? Why do you hate Dubas? By your argument, Gretzky should have been a great coach, or maybe Roy should have.

You hate analytics too? It is going to be really awkward when you find out which teams use analytics the most.

I don’t hate Dubas, I don’t know Dubas. He may be a swell guy.

My interest is in the success of the Maple Leafs that he’s been such a detriment to.

 

[jgs]

The Islanders are built right. They have finese players, they have size, they have the grit players. They players stick up for each other. They have a great coach and GM. They have structure and punish the oppsing team. Bruins, well they are built about the same. Leafs are very far from what these two are and until the leafs play like these two teams, they will not make it past the first round.