Bruins vs Isles

[Menzinger]

Martin got benched for standing up to Babcock in the Mitch Marner list situation.

Had nothing to do with Babcock's interest in "that type of player."

That's a bit speculative on your part. It may have been the final wedge between them, but Martin was averaging well under 8 minutes a night during his second season with the Leafs prior to that incident/benching (and a mere minute more than that the season prior). He clearly wasnt one of Babcock's preferred players.

And if course there's the fact that Babcock never really had a Martin type player on his Wing's teams either.

Edit:
And I don't think pointing out the reality that Dubas' noticeably added Clifford after firing Babcock is a "fake narrative". It's just how things unfolded in recent Leafs history.

 

[Pookie]

And I don't think pointing out the reality that Dubas' noticible added Clifford after firing Babcock is a "fake narrative". It's just how things unfolded in recent Leafs history.

I totally agree that Dubas course corrected and added Clifford to address physicality.

A season and a half later.

 

[Bomber0104]

Let's not create a fake narrative about Dubas really wanting physicality and big bad Babcock stood in his way.

[....]

“We want to have skill, we want to be fast, and we want to be competitive. I don’t really think that the way that the league is going that having someone that can come in and fight or anything like that is going to change that. We’ve got a way that we want to play, and we’re just going to carry on with that. In the end, people will judge whether it was effective.”

Leafs GM Kyle Dubas talks offer sheets, toughness and blue-line status - Sportsnet.ca

Consecutive first round exits against progressively worse teams..

That's pretty ineffective.

 

[Donnie740]

Let's not create a fake narrative about Dubas really wanting physicality and big bad Babcock stood in his way.

Dubas' views on the roster without Komarov and Martin:
Dubas will not go shopping for physicality

There is concern the Maple Leafs — a group that, comparatively, eschews penalties and body checking — lack the sandpaper on the roster to survive a long, gruelling playoff run, where whistles tend to get tucked away.

Dubas said in constructing his roster — now free of rugged characters like Matt Martin, Leo Komarov and Roman Polak — he looks at the Atlantic Division rivals first.

“For whatever reason, that takes on a life of its own — the whole ‘toughness’ question. I look at Tampa Bay, they’re eight or nine points ahead of us now, and they built their team their way. I understand it’s at every level, whether it’s been Sault Ste. Marie or the Marlies, it’s been the same question,” Dubas said.

“I don’t buy it, myself. I know that there are a lot of pundits that say you have to have it, but I look at the teams that have had success, and I don’t think bringing in one big person is going to change our culture — and it’s not going to have us carry on with the process we’ve started.

“We want to have skill, we want to be fast, and we want to be competitive. I don’t really think that the way that the league is going that having someone that can come in and fight or anything like that is going to change that. We’ve got a way that we want to play, and we’re just going to carry on with that. In the end, people will judge whether it was effective.”

Leafs GM Kyle Dubas talks offer sheets, toughness and blue-line status - Sportsnet.ca

I’m cringing at how laughably misguided those comments by Dubas turned out to be.

The little kid truly does not have the slightest clue.

 

[Pookie]

3-2 in the series for Matt, Leo and Lou.

Let’s go boys!

 

[deprw]

I totally agree that Dubas course corrected and added Clifford to address physicality.

A season and a half later.

You can't add players like Clifford that often. They are rare at the moment and not players you should drastically overpay in trades. This summer we added Simmonds and Clifford went UFA. Might have been different case without contract clause in trade deal with Kings.

 

[Pookie]

You can't add players like Clifford that often. They are rare at the moment and not players you should drastically overpay in trades. This summer we added Simmonds and Clifford went UFA. Might have been different case without contract clause in trade deal with Kings.

The Dubas values physicality argument is bigger than adding a player to the bottom 3. Though it is a piece.

the core is not physical. That top 9... Hyman?

Just not enough to get it done in the playoffs.

we have all the evidence we need. Time to act.

 

[Pookie]

How happy are you today if you are an Islander fan who suffered through the Tavares saga?

Tavares hasn’t won a playoff round with the Leafs.

And your Islanders are on the verge of knocking out the Bruins with only the Habs standing in your way of a Cup final?

 

[Trapper]

How happy are you today if you are an Islander fan who suffered through the Tavares saga?

Tavares hasn’t won a playoff round with the Leafs.

And your Islanders are on the verge of knocking out the Bruins with only the Habs standing in your way of a Cup final?

Islanders watched Tavares walk for free and didn’t fold the franchise.
I think we can trade a winger.

 

[sparxx87]

How happy are you today if you are an Islander fan who suffered through the Tavares saga?

Tavares hasn’t won a playoff round with the Leafs.

And your Islanders are on the verge of knocking out the Bruins with only the Habs standing in your way of a Cup final?

They’ll play the winner of Bolts/Canes. Montréal gets Vegas/Colorado.

...but your point remains the same. Just win, baby!

Tavares for Lamoriello, Martin and Komorov - who says no?

 

[4thline]

They’ll play the winner of Bolts/Canes. Montréal gets Vegas/Colorado.

...but your point remains the same. Just win, baby!

Tavares for Lamoriello, Martin and Komorov - who says no?

Call it sour grapes/ stubborness if you want, , but when I look at the Isles relative to Knights/Tampa/Lightning/Avalanche I see the 01-04 leafs relative to the avalanche, red wings, etc. Strong hard working playoff team, good for a couple of rounds, gets your hopes up, but outclassed in the final 4 and at the end of the day the cupboards are empty from betting on what really was a darkhorse year after year.

 

[sparxx87]

Call it sour grapes/ stubborness if you want, , but when I look at the Isles relative to Knights/Tampa/Lightning/Avalanche I see the 01-04 leafs relative to the avalanche, red wings, etc. Strong hard working playoff team, good for a couple of rounds, gets your hopes up, but outclassed in the final 4 and at the end of the day the cupboards are empty from betting on what really was a darkhorse year after year.

You might be right, but they have a brand new billion dollar building in Belmont park opening next year in the middle of the gold mine that is Nassau county NY.

Lot easier to sell this team than a rebuilder.

I think the new ownership and the culture Lamoriello built could carry on for the next half decade until the natural life cycle of sports starts to creep in.

 

[ToneDog]

How happy are you today if you are an Islander fan who suffered through the Tavares saga?

Tavares hasn’t won a playoff round with the Leafs.

And your Islanders are on the verge of knocking out the Bruins with only the Habs standing in your way of a Cup final?

Nope won't be so easy. They should have gotten the easy path if Leafs did not collapse. Now thanks to that collapse they get the winner of TB/Canes.

 

[Kurtz]

Lou is nothing special - a perfectly average GM. He sacrifices futures (picks, cap) to build above-average but unspectacular teams, and his successors pay for these sacrifices down the line. Devils fans were glad to get rid of him, and so were we at the time.

He made 1 amazing, opportunistic move. Trotz became available at just the right time, and he signed him. That's it. Trotz works miracles.

If you look at the rest of Lou's moves, it's the same story as here - trading away picks for vets and overpaying mediocre talent.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Discrediting Lou because "it's all Trotz" is as cheesy an argument as it is when people say so and so team wouldn't be as good if they didn't have an elite goalie. Last I checked, they were just as part of the team/solution. You can't "fault" a GM for handpicking the right coach and/or drafting/signing a game-changing goalie.

 

[4thline]

You might be right, but they have a brand new billion dollar building in Belmont park opening next year in the middle of the gold mine that is Nassau county NY.

Lot easier to sell this team than a rebuilder.

I think the new ownership and the culture Lamoriello built could carry on for the next half decade until the natural life cycle of sports starts to creep in.

Maybe, but I don't see how it doesn't result in where he left the Devils. I really do see a time bomb. It's a team in the true sense of the word, every piece matters and they're getting more than the sum of their parts. But it's not sustainable financially unless several guys take like 50% discounts, when a couple guys start falling off from age or are lost to cap I think it crumbles, and with no plan to reload.

I think the Quinn era example is very apt, especially given the financial strength of the org.

 

[Brobust]

Martin got benched for standing up to Babcock in the Mitch Marner list situation.

Had nothing to do with Babcock's interest in "that type of player."

This is such bullshit.

Martin didn't miss a single game during Mitch Marner's rookie season. The year he got benched, the leafs were running guys like Connor Brown and Kapanen on the 4th line.

Martin didn't play because the leafs were stacked at wing and he was utterly ineffective keeping up with the leafs pace of play.

 

[sparxx87]

Maybe, but I don't see how it doesn't result in where he left the Devils. I really do see a time bomb. It's a team in the true sense of the word, every piece matters and they're getting more than the sum of their parts. But it's not sustainable financially unless several guys take like 50% discounts, when a couple guys start falling off from age or are lost to cap I think it crumbles, and with no plan to reload.

I think the Quinn era example is very apt, especially given the financial strength of the org.

Are you familiar with the area? They have a gold mine there with the 2nd most expendable income in the US. They want to fill their building and draw new and young (and rich) fans.

When the cycle turns over and they have to gut and rebuild, they’ve added a whole bunch of lifetime fans.

It’s a business for them

 

[sparxx87]

@4thline

NY is a very different sports market than Toronto. Jets, Giants, Rangers, Devils, Knicks, Nets all play similar season and Yankees and Mets in the summer.

Theyre competing with a lot of other franchises for dollars. Results are the number one thing that drive revenue here.

 

[4thline]

@4thline

NY is a very different sports market than Toronto. Jets, Giants, Rangers, Devils, Knicks, Nets all play similar season and Yankees and Mets in the summer.

Theyre competing with a lot of other franchises for dollars. Results are the number one thing that drive revenue here.

It's a bold play then, going for the short-term results rather than trying to build something sustainable.

 

[Aus34Matt]

I’m cringing at how laughably misguided those comments by Dubas turned out to be.

The little kid truly does not have the slightest clue.

We should frame this tweet:

 

[3blizzard4]

We should frame this tweet:

Hmmm so its. experiment? What go with something tried true and tested when you can experiment for 8-10 years!! If it didn't work out we can pat ourselves on the back and say "we tried yay!!".

 

[sparxx87]

It's a bold play then, going for the short-term results rather than trying to build something sustainable.

They have a brand new building. They need a product with tangible results to sell to their fans.

Again, this area is a gold mine. They could be one of the more profitable franchises if they can draw more fans. Rangers take a huge piece of the pie. New owners want more. How do you do that? Playoff gates.

 

[sparxx87]

@4thline Should check out their new building. It’s in one of the best spots you could pick (completely overhauling the RR station) and looks to be one of the best sports venues in NA.

 

[Pookie]

This is such bullshit.

Martin didn't miss a single game during Mitch Marner's rookie season. The year he got benched, the leafs were running guys like Connor Brown and Kapanen on the 4th line.

Martin didn't play because the leafs were stacked at wing and he was utterly ineffective keeping up with the leafs pace of play.

The guy who hasn’t missed a single playoff game for the Islanders couldn’t keep up with the mighty Round One Maple Leafs?

He’s played PK mins there too. As well as PP.