Bruins Off Season III

[PlayMakers]

Since Winnipeg really needs Trouba based on their roster why again are they trading him

When you look at the Jets roster he kind of makes sense to them as much as us? No?

No.

They have Byfuglien and Myers in their top4 on the right side. For Trouba to play in their top4 he has to play his off-side. Trouba himself, is frustrated with the role and lack of playing time behind those guys.

What they need is a deal that adds someone on the left to balance out the pairings. They have Enstrom on the left, but bottom pairing guys after that. IMO, they need a top4 LHD if they really want to contend. We need a top4 RHD D if we want to contend. That may not make us ideal trade partners but I don't think he makes as much sense for them as he does for us.

 

[PlayMakers]

Hamilton wasn't going to sign here and the offer of an offer sheet was very real.

The same can't be said for the jets yet anyway.

Once Hamilton signed the offer sheet, he would have been "signed here."

It was a non-issue and a major fumble by our young GM.

 

[PlayMakers]

Don't think they are trading him.
It's more like 10 teams/fans hoping they'd trade him.

With Buff 31y Trouba is a nice fit for that team, difficult to find a better fit via trade.

They just signed Byfuglien to a 5 year $7.6m deal, I don't think they're planning on replacing him anytime soon.

Like AOF has said many times, Myers might have been the smarter player to dangle, but then Chevy and Trouba got into this standoff and now there's some ill will.

If I'm Sweeney, I'm trying to broker a deal between ANA, WPG and BOS where everybody gets something they need...

WPG gets Fowler, cost controlled for a few more years, legit top4 LHD who can play with Myers or Buff.

BOS gets Trouba, legit top4 RHD who can play with either Chara or Krug and grow with the young players coming in.

ANA gets Spooner (their fans in Coach Parker's Lindholm thread seemed to think he would be a good fit), and some hefty prospects or draft picks to balance out the value.

 

[Lord Ahriman]

They just signed Byfuglien to a 5 year $7.6m deal, I don't think they're planning on replacing him anytime soon.

Like AOF has said many times, Myers might have been the smarter player to dangle, but then Chevy and Trouba got into this standoff and now there's some ill will.

If I'm Sweeney, I'm trying to broker a deal between ANA, WPG and BOS where everybody gets something they need...

WPG gets Fowler, cost controlled for a few more years, legit top4 LHD who can play with Myers or Buff.

BOS gets Trouba, legit top4 RHD who can play with either Chara or Krug and grow with the young players coming in.

ANA gets Spooner (their fans in Coach Parker's Lindholm thread seemed to think he would be a good fit), and some hefty prospects or draft picks to balance out the value.

I'm not willing to add much: Spooner for Trouba is almost a fair proposal, imo.

 

[Mpasta]

Once Hamilton signed the offer sheet, he would have been "signed here."

It was a non-issue and a major fumble by our young GM.

How dare you go against the norm!!

 

[PB37]

Once Hamilton signed the offer sheet, he would have been "signed here."

It was a non-issue and a major fumble by our young GM.

In Sweeney's own words " Hamilton did not want to be here ". Yes, the Bruins would have had the right to match. But, they didn't feel having a disgruntled kid moping on the blueline was worth the investment, both for on ice play and off ice chemistry with his teammates. Sweeney said that he wanted to accelerate the draft picks they would have gotten in regards to a potential offer sheet for Hamilton.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/h...-sweeney-didnt-give-dougie-hamilton-after-all


Speculation is, this was the icing on the cake for Hamilton and his feelings towards Boston.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/...uins-after-team-refused-to-trade-for-brother/

 

[PB37]

That flashback works both ways though. We could go back and read about all the amazing prospects the 2010 Bruins have up and coming. I still remember penciling in Lashoff each year to be paired with Chara...

I don't remember being enamored with Lashoff, even with his good Providence numbers. I watched him play a few times in the minors and I came away with the impression that he was confused a lot...which translated to coming into the NHL and looking confused all the time.

Time will tell with McAvoy, but as of right now, he looks like a keeper.

 

[Gump Hasek]

WPG gets Fowler, cost controlled for a few more years, legit top4 LHD who can play with Myers or Buff.

BOS gets Trouba, legit top4 RHD who can play with either Chara or Krug and grow with the young players coming in.

ANA gets Spooner (their fans in Coach Parker's Lindholm thread seemed to think he would be a good fit), and some hefty prospects or draft picks to balance out the value.

The Jets have a similar player to Fowler that is set to graduate to their NHL roster this year in Josh Morrissey. Doubt they'd have much if any interest in Fowler as such. In fact, I'll be surprised if they trade Trouba unless he were to hold out and for a long, long time. He has never reportedly been offered in trade, to anyone. The trade talk appears to be mainly be media-driven speculation in a vacuum of any information, as the agent and GM reportedly have a deal to not negotiate in the press.

PS: The issue of usage is a canard. He played much of last season at LD and said he had no problems with it. Paul Maurice also said that they intend to use him in the #1 pair with Byfuglien, so usage doesn't appear to be a concern.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I'm not willing to add much: Spooner for Trouba is almost a fair proposal, imo.

Really?? I'd be more than willing to go much further than that.

Spooner and Trouba aren't in the same ballpark in terms of their relative trade value.

We would be adding to both the Jets and the Ducks in this scenario. And the Ducks get hosed without something significant.

 

[ODAAT]

Really?? I'd be more than willing to go much further than that.

Spooner and Trouba aren't in the same ballpark in terms of their relative trade value.

We would be adding to both the Jets and the Ducks in this scenario. And the Ducks get hosed without something significant.

agreed..

....and if I may piggyback on your post MMB, do the Jets even need a Spooner?

Up the middle they have Little/Scheifele and Perreault up the middle, not sure where Spoons would even fit into their vision? I like Spoons alot, lots of work to do defensively still but last year he showed he`s, at the very least, willing to accept that playing in 3 zones is important, he needs to get stronger at it but I liked his effort and commitment to improving his D play

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The Jets have a similar player to Fowler that is set to graduate to their NHL roster this year in Josh Morrissey. Doubt they'd have much if any interest in Fowler as such. In fact, I'll be surprised if they trade Trouba unless he were to hold out and for a long, long time. He has never reportedly been offered in trade, to anyone. The trade talk appears to be mainly be media-driven speculation in a vacuum of any information, as the agent and GM reportedly have a deal to not negotiate in the press.

PS: The issue of usage is a canard. He played much of last season at LD and said he had no problems with it. Paul Maurice also said that they intend to use him in the #1 pair with Byfuglien, so usage doesn't appear to be a concern.

I like Josh Morrissey, even drafted him in our SIM league. However, I'm not sure I would go so far as calling him "similar" to Fowler, when Morrissey has played one NHL game and Fowler has logged 414 at the ripe old age of 24. When Fowler was the same age as Morrissey, he was in his 3rd NHL season and an established Top 4 D. Right now, the only similarities is that they were both drafted in the 1st round and both shoot left.

I think you might need to pump the brakes a bit on some of your prospect expectations?

 

[DKH]

The more into Winnipeg if they trade Trouba, they need a Trouba type ready guy back

This makes 0.0 sense even if he is being hyped up more than he is worth

All eyes on Trouba in tourney

 

[bp13]

In Sweeney's own words " Hamilton did not want to be here ". Yes, the Bruins would have had the right to match. But, they didn't feel having a disgruntled kid moping on the blueline was worth the investment, both for on ice play and off ice chemistry with his teammates. Sweeney said that he wanted to accelerate the draft picks they would have gotten in regards to a potential offer sheet for Hamilton.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/h...-sweeney-didnt-give-dougie-hamilton-after-all


Speculation is, this was the icing on the cake for Hamilton and his feelings towards Boston.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/...uins-after-team-refused-to-trade-for-brother/

I think Sweeney's sentiment that he didn't want Hamilton if Hamilton didn't want to be here is perfectly reasonable. I'd want him gone if that's how he felt too. But when he's looking like your only top 3 talent on the blueline for the next 5 years, and his departure leaves you with a terrible defensive roster, then you either need to put your issues with his feelings aside, or you need to make damn sure you replace him right away. Sweeney decided to move him, which again is fine, but he didn't replace him. And somehow, over a year later, he still hasn't replaced him. I think he deserves a lot of heat for that. It's a clear failing.

I'd also add with regard to people suggesting two years isn't enough time to judge a GM that I agree 2 years probably isn't enough time to know if you have a good one, but it might be enough time to know if you don't. For my money, Sweeney seems to match eachmove I like with a move I don't. And while the future may look brighter on the defensive end, the present day is much worse than when he took over. Moreover, the future up front, when the D materializes, isn't all that promising either. So, are we better off today than when he took the job? It's hard for me to see how we are.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I like Josh Morrissey, even drafted him in our SIM league. However, I'm not sure I would go so far as calling him "similar" to Fowler, when Morrissey has played one NHL game and Fowler has logged 414 at the ripe old age of 24. When Fowler was the same age as Morrissey, he was in his 3rd NHL season and an established Top 4 D. Right now, the only similarities is that they were both drafted in the 1st round and both shoot left.

I think you might need to pump the brakes a bit on some of your prospect expectations?

You are excluding that the Jets are a draft and develop adherent; they will always default to the similar-style of player available to them in-house (vs. paying in trade to acquire an older version of virtually the same thing). It isn't Morrissey's fault that the Jets plan to overcook a majority of their prospects akin to DRW. He is actually a hell of a player, an amazing skater, and a guy of good character that management thinks quite highly of.

 

[BruinDust]

You are excluding that the Jets are a draft and develop adherent; they will always default to the similar-style of player available to them in-house (vs. paying in trade to acquire an older version of virtually the same thing). It isn't Morrissey's fault that the Jets plan to overcook a majority of their prospects akin to DRW. He is actually a hell of a player, an amazing skater, and a guy of good character that the GM reportedly thinks quite highly of.

So if their draft/development adherent as you say akin to Detroit, shouldn't Morrissey have another two years left in the AHL to "overcook".

 

[Gump Hasek]

So if their draft/development adherent as you say akin to Detroit, shouldn't Morrissey have another two years left in the AHL to "overcook".

Probably not. They left him in junior for his final season due a high ankle issue that has since healed. He has since played a full year in the AHL now and as well roughly 30 games in a Calder Cup AHL final run at age 19 - a run that the AGM equated as being equal to roughly 1/2 a season of AHL service due the higher intensity of playoffs and that he did it while playing technically at below the league minimum age.

https://www.nhl.com/news/morrisseys-season-long-odyssey-nears-end-in-ahl/c-722616

He is on pace to graduate this season.

 

[BruinDust]

Probably not. They left him in junior for his final season due a high ankle issue that has since healed. He has since played a full year in the AHL now and as well roughly 30 games in a Calder Cup AHL final run at age 19 - a run that the AGM equated as being equal to roughly 1/2 a season of AHL service due the higher intensity of playoffs and that he did it while playing technically at below the league minimum age. He is on pace to graduate this season.

So their not over-cooking as you said but guys play when they are close to ready, which isn't he Detroit model at all.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[Gump Hasek]

So their not over-cooking as you said but guys play when they are close to ready, which isn't he Detroit model at all.

Can't have it both ways.

No, they plan to overcook all but a few select star kids in the A. The GM basically said that the road to the NHL roster is through the A, but also that certain players will dictate their spot by their play there. He is likely one of those players, hopefully. Then they can trade Mark Stuart to Boston by extension, preferably ASAP.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You are excluding that the Jets are a draft and develop adherent; they will always default to the similar-style of player available to them in-house (vs. paying in trade to acquire an older version of virtually the same thing). It isn't Morrissey's fault that the Jets plan to overcook a majority of their prospects akin to DRW. He is actually a hell of a player, an amazing skater, and a guy of good character that management thinks quite highly of.

I completely understand team's preferring to develop "in house" versus having to trade for a player. The issue I have is that despite you saying it's so, Morrissey is not "virtually the same thing" as Fowler. He's not even close to the same thing until he proves he can do it. In addition, Fowler produced in the NHL three years before Morrissey might.

How is that virtually the same thing?

 

[Gump Hasek]

I completely understand team's preferring to develop "in house" versus having to trade for a player. The issue I have is that despite you saying it's so, Morrissey is not "virtually the same thing" as Fowler. He's not even close to the same thing until he proves he can do it. In addition, Fowler produced in the NHL three years before Morrissey might.

How is that virtually the same thing?

They play a similar style of game; it really isn't as difficult a concept to grasp as you are making it out to be.

Morrissey is probably the superior skater of the two though.

 

[BruinDust]

No, they plan to overcook all but a few select star kids in the A. The GM basically said that the road to the NHL roster is through the A, but also that certain players will dictate their spot by their play there. He is likely one of those players, hopefully. Then they can trade Mark Stuart to Boston by extension, preferably ASAP.

Which is basically what almost every NHL team and 99% of NHL players end up doing.

So their isn't anything special about what Winnipeg is planning or doing. Nor is there any real intent on "over-cooking" as you originally stated. So your pretty much contradicting what you said earlier.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Which is basically what almost every NHL team and 99% of NHL players end up doing.

So their isn't anything special about what Winnipeg is planning or doing. Nor is there any real intent on "over-cooking" as you originally stated. So your pretty much contradicting what you said earlier.

Look, the Jets are a draft and develop franchise; they went really young at the AHL-level last season and dumped something like 16 first-year guys into the A that season and the team got pounded all year long for the sake of having their prospects garner ice-time at the pro-level. If you want to cherry-pick the one guy that will rise above that year as evidence of something other than what it is, then whatever. Feel free to conjure up whatever you wish to believe.

 

[Therick67]

And yet the Bruins in the last five years have had two of them used against them with their star ELC players (Kessel threat from Toronto, Hamilton threat from Edmonton).

Well, the threat of the offer sheet isn't the same as them signing one. Some teams might actually use the threat as a tactic.

The Bruins had the option of making a deal, or letting them sign and then matching. If Hamilton and Kessel flat out wouldn't play here, they'd run the risk of signing the offer sheet and then having the Bruins match. Then what do they do?

Working out a trade benefits the team wanting the player, as signing them to the offer sheet doesn't necessarily get them the player, as half the players offer sheeted have the team match them.

 

[PB37]

I think Sweeney's sentiment that he didn't want Hamilton if Hamilton didn't want to be here is perfectly reasonable. I'd want him gone if that's how he felt too. But when he's looking like your only top 3 talent on the blueline for the next 5 years, and his departure leaves you with a terrible defensive roster, then you either need to put your issues with his feelings aside, or you need to make damn sure you replace him right away. Sweeney decided to move him, which again is fine, but he didn't replace him. And somehow, over a year later, he still hasn't replaced him. I think he deserves a lot of heat for that. It's a clear failing.

I'd also add with regard to people suggesting two years isn't enough time to judge a GM that I agree 2 years probably isn't enough time to know if you have a good one, but it might be enough time to know if you don't. For my money, Sweeney seems to match eachmove I like with a move I don't. And while the future may look brighter on the defensive end, the present day is much worse than when he took over. Moreover, the future up front, when the D materializes, isn't all that promising either. So, are we better off today than when he took the job? It's hard for me to see how we are.

Once it was clear Hamilton had no intention of being a Bruin long term and we picked up another first rounder in the Lucic trade, Sweeney's plan was to move the assets to move up in the 2015 draft and pick up local prodigy and Bruins fan Noah Hanafin, who Sweeney coveted. From what I remember, the deal was in place and a gentleman's agreement had happened, but Arizona backed out at the last possible minute, giving in to their desire of wanting Strome in their organization.

As much as I like the prospects we picked up in the 2015 first round, Noah Hanafin would have been a huge boost to this club's present and future outlook. A franchise defenseman who has all the qualities Sweeney wants out of his blueline PLUS being born in this city and a Bruins fan? That was the gamble Sweeney rolled for and it didn't happen but I find it hard to find fault in those that roll big. Fortune favors the bold and if Arizona hadn't gotten cold feet, we'd all be lauding how Sweeney turned a bad situation into an immediate positive one. It still can be if Debrusk and Senyshyn turn into solid top 9 performers and Zboril a steady 2nd pairing dman but it's not as immediate or sure-fire as Noah Hanafin being groomed as the Chara replacement.

 

[BruinDust]

Look, the Jets are a draft and develop franchise; they went really young at the AHL-level last season and dumped something like 16 first-year guys into the A that season and the team got pounded all year long for the sake of having their prospects garner ice-time at the pro-level. If you want to cherry-pick the one guy that will rise above that year as evidence of something other than what it is, then whatever. Feel free to conjure up whatever you wish to believe.

Your the one bringing up (or cherry-picking) Morrissey as a reason NOT to acquire Fowler if a deal was there. No one on this board brought up his name.

I would say every NHL team in the cap era is a "draft and develop" franchise so once again nothing special there.

Your the only one doing any conjuring around here. Maybe you should go conjure over on your own board.