Bruins Off Season III

[PatriceBergeronFan]

What

The jets who had 78 points last year and have sucked oh, I don't know forever

How did they get to be so modern?

If you are talking Laine and Scheifele you kind of have to pick in top 5. Boston fans can't even deal with 95 and 93 point seasons and 9 first and second round picks while retooling - and they'll be in the 90's again this year

Kyle Connor better be great- history as the 17th pick is not on his side but we shall see. Hey he was my guy I'm covered

I was being very sarcastic -- some Winnipeg fans here think they are the next dynasty.

 

[BadBruins]

I didn't realize how many quality high profile RFA's are still unsigned. Trouba, Ristolainen, Lindholm, Kucherov, Gaudreau, Nichushkin.

Just looking at the fact they're typically not a cap team, I'm watching the Ducks. Maybe the bridge it out, but if I'm Lindholm, I want my $30+ Million guaranteed. They also have Rakell to worry about. Less significant, but still a piece. Have to think something will happen there at some point with one of their D.

 

[PlayMakers]

...I do strongly believe that finding a match between the two clubs is a profoundly difficult thing to do. "The Team with no Holes" is a more accurate statement than 78 points would have you believe. And Cheveldayoff is one difficult and stingy GM. If it doesn't apply direct benefit to his team, I could see him holding out for an offer that would.

I'm skeptical that the Bruins currently stable the correct horses to make it work.

I agree MMB. The last time Chevy had issues with a player it was Kane and that went on for years before he finally got the deal he wanted. When it finally went down, it was...

Evander Kane, Zach Bogosian and Jason Kasdorf to the Buffalo Sabres for...
Tyler Myers, Drew Stafford, Joel Armia, Brendan Lemieux and a first-round draft pick in 2015


To guess at a deal that could work for both sides, it might make sense to find an analog to that deal using Trouba as the main piece. Anyone want to take a shot?

 

[Coach Parker]

It's a contest between Chevy and Trouba.

Who has the patients to wait it all out?

Is Trouba willing to lose a year or will he settle for the best he can get from the Jets? And if he is, will Chevy be willing to have an asset miss a season?

Yeah in this situation it seems the team has the advantage where I see Lindholm in a much more better situation with Anaheim who know they need to shed salary on defense to make it work.

Chevy wins this one and I bet Trouba signs a bridge deal and then walks away in two years.

He wants top pairing minutes.
He wants special team minutes.
He wants...what the Bruins need.

They have Myers and Byfuglien locked down long term already.

I could imagine Chevy pointing to Dumba and Subban's bridge contracts and Trouba pointing to Ekblad's.

 

[Coach Parker]

I didn't realize how many quality high profile RFA's are still unsigned. Trouba, Ristolainen, Lindholm, Kucherov, Gaudreau, Nichushkin.

Just looking at the fact they're typically not a cap team, I'm watching the Ducks. Maybe the bridge it out, but if I'm Lindholm, I want my $30+ Million guaranteed. They also have Rakell to worry about. Less significant, but still a piece. Have to think something will happen there at some point with one of their D.

Same.

Haven't signed Lindholm? We'll offer sheet him.
Need to move a defenseman? We'll trade for Fowler.
Want to keep them all? We'll move prospects for Theodore.

Either way, the Ducks will be moving a defenseman and any one they move the Bruins should be interested in.

 

[Coach Parker]

I agree MMB. The last time Chevy had issues with a player it was Kane and that went on for years before he finally got the deal he wanted. When it finally went down, it was...

Evander Kane, Zach Bogosian and Jason Kasdorf to the Buffalo Sabres for...
Tyler Myers, Drew Stafford, Joel Armia, Brendan Lemieux and a first-round draft pick in 2015


To guess at a deal that could work for both sides, it might make sense to find an analog to that deal using Trouba as the main piece. Anyone want to take a shot?

All I could come up with was:

2017 1st
2018 1st
D Joe Morrow

 

[Dr Quincy]

All I could come up with was:

2017 1st
2018 1st
D Joe Morrow

If you are Chevy would you rather that, or a similar package from DET:

2017 1st
2018 1st
D Ryan Sproul

Sproul is a little younger than Morrow and I "think" DET's picks will be slightly higher than BOS.

What I'm kind of getting at is that it's not just about coming up with a package, but one that will beat out other offers. That said, I guess that doesn't always happen- Thornton deal, Hamilton deal.

But I do think if WPG is dealing Trouba they are going to be looking to add something that helps their roster now as opposed to purely futures.

 

[BruinDust]

I was being very sarcastic -- some Winnipeg fans here think they are the next dynasty.

Talking to Jets fans about Trouba, for a franchise with ZERO playoff game wins, two playoff appearances in 16 seasons, they are a fairly over-confident bunch.

Most think:

1) Anything prior to moving to Winnipeg doesn't count.

2) They have UNLIMITED resources and regardless of financial performance, ownership will spend whatever it takes to win.

3) They have one of the best pools of young players and prospects and are on the verge of a Chicago-like run of contending for cups.

But that being said, I agree with many when it's very difficult to come up with a good fit in terms of a trade deal to bring Trouba to Boston. Their needs are fairly minimal.

They basically need a comparable left-shoot D-man. Bruins have one, Torey Krug, and I'm not sure moving him for Trouba makes a whole lot of sense, and considering he just signed a 4-year extension, moving him now would be a huge mistake for many reasons.

Packages consisting of Spooner/Vatrano, other left-shot forward prospects, Subban, Morrow, other left-shot D-men prospects, or 1st round picks just aren't going to get it done.

Considering Chevy is known for digging in his heels a bit on trades, I can see this going on right up until the Dec. 1 deadline for RFAs to sign and play this year. I have no idea what the outcome will be.

One factor to play out in all of this is the health of Tyler Myers. I can see Winnipeg moving him and keeping Trouba, but until they see how he recovers from off-season surgery, it's hard for them to make a judgement call on what path to take.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

2015-16 Liiga Rookie of the Year.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Rookie Points Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff MVP and Champion.
2015-16 Liiga Playoff Goals Leader.
2015-16 Liiga Record Setter for Most Playoff Goals By a Rookie.
2016 World Junior All Star Team.
2016 World Junior Gold Medal.
2016 World Junior Goals Leader.
(2015 U-18 All Star Team.
2015 U-18 Silver Medal.
2015 U-18 Goals Leader.)
2016 World Championship MVP.
2016 World Championship Silver Medal.
2016 World Championship All-Star Team.
2016 World Championship, IIHF Directorate Award for Best Forward.
2016 World Championship, Award for Top 3 Player on Team.
2016 World Championship Goals Leader.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Goals by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
2016 World Championship Record Setter for Most Points by a Player in First Year of NHL Draft Eligibility.
Second-Highest Point Total by a U-19 Player at a World Championship Tournament (behind only Sidney Crosby, 2006).


Laines draft year, please don't compare him to Armia.
I've said it before to you that they are different.



They aren't perfect but they are considered as having one of the best prospect pools/u25 team in the league, then they have quality vets in Wheeler, Buff, Little and so on.
Like said before me Boston- Winnipeg make bad trading partners.

I get it, you have a man crush on Laine (have for awhile).

All I was saying is don't count your chickens before they are hatched. And don't count on rookie 18 year olds (no matter how talented) to solve your problems. You want those players to exceed lower expectations, not be counted on as key contributors. There have been higher draft picks than Laine that haven't panned out.

 

[BB88]

I get it, you have a man crush on Laine (have for awhile).

All I was saying is don't count your chickens before they are hatched. And don't count on rookie 18 year olds (no matter how talented) to solve your problems. You want those players to exceed lower expectations, not be counted on as key contributors. There have been higher draft picks than Laine that haven't panned out.

My problem with you on this is that you keep comparing Laine to Armia which is laughable, Laine played 104 games last season, how many did you watch?
Laine was Liigas best player at the end of year and kept breaking records, they did not have comparable years.

I'm not expecting miracles from his 1st year and neither are majority of Jets fans, I want to see his game get better as the season goes and about 20 goals, but that comparison is very poor.

If you are Chevy would you rather that, or a similar package from DET:

2017 1st
2018 1st
D Ryan Sproul

Sproul is a little younger than Morrow and I "think" DET's picks will be slightly higher than BOS.

What I'm kind of getting at is that it's not just about coming up with a package, but one that will beat out other offers. That said, I guess that doesn't always happen- Thornton deal, Hamilton deal.

But I do think if WPG is dealing Trouba they are going to be looking to add something that helps their roster now as opposed to purely futures.

If Trouba would get traded and for futures I'd be very surprised, getting worse doesn't seem to be their goal.
It's more like it's about time to start winning and being contenders in few years.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

My problem with you on this is that you keep comparing Laine to Armia which is damm laughable, Laine played 104 games last season, how many did you watch?
Laine was Liigas best player at the end of year.

I'm not comparing him to Armia. I am pointing to Armia and saying, hey look there was another 17 year old that was good in the Liga against men (Armia had what 17-18 goals as a 17 yr old?) and he never really panned out. Laine is better than Armia, but until he proves it in the NHL, they are both just kids that had success in the Finnish Elite League.

It isn't that difficult a concept to grasp and holds true of all rookies in that situation. Don't count on them as key contributors (which the WPG poster was doing) until they actually prove they can do it on the next level.

End of story.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

My problem with you on this is that you keep comparing Laine to Armia which is laughable, Laine played 104 games last season, how many did you watch?
Laine was Liigas best player at the end of year and kept breaking records, they did not have comparable years.

I'm not expecting miracles from his 1st year and neither are majority of Jets fans, I want to see his game get better as the season goes and about 20 goals, but that comparison is very poor.




If Trouba would get traded and for futures I'd be very surprised, getting worse doesn't seem to be their goal.
It's more like it's about time to start winning and being contenders in few years.

Right now, the thing they'd want for Trouba is Krug. And I think that's a non-starter for the Bruins.

 

[BB88]

I'm not comparing him to Armia. I am pointing to Armia and saying, hey look there was another 17 year old that was good in the Liga against men (Armia had what 17-18 goals as a 17 yr old?) and he never really panned out. Laine is better than Armia, but until he proves it in the NHL, they are both just kids that had success in the Finnish Elite League.

It isn't that difficult a concept to grasp and holds true of all rookies in that situation. Don't count on them as key contributors (which the WPG poster was doing) until they actually prove they can do it on the next level.

End of story.

It's still about good vs the best.
The one player proved himself everywhere last year, 2 mvp titles in mens leagues/tourneys unlike the one you mentioned with him and again the one was Liigas best player at the end of year, unlike the one you compared him.
So poor comparison again.

So if you're not too high on him you probably see their needs differently than Chevy does, they don't need forwards, forwards Sweeney could give them, but time to move on.

Right now, the thing they'd want for Trouba is Krug. And I think that's a non-starter for the Bruins.

If Trouba would sign a longterm contract with a good cap hit I'd make the trade.
He's younger, better and has more potential. He could be the answer for that top pairing RD spot for the next 10 years.
Trading for RD's isn't cheap.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

It's still about good vs the best.
The one player proved himself everywhere last year, 2 mvp titles in mens leagues/tourneys unlike the one you mentioned with him and again the one was Liigas best player at the end of year, unlike the one you compared him.
So poor comparison again.

So if you're not too high on him you probably see their needs differently than Chevy does, they don't need forwards, forwards Sweeney could give them, but time to move on.



If Trouba would sign a longterm contract with a good cap hit I'd make the trade.
He's younger, better and has more potential. He could be the answer for that top pairing RD spot for the next 10 years.
Trading for RD's isn't cheap.

What are you not getting about this? Also, you are putting words in my mouth. I said I would love Laine on the B's, I'm just not ready to anoint him as the second coming of McJesus and would not count on him as a rookie.

That's called being prudent and/or realistic, not being down on a guy. Same goes for the B's prospects. Would I love to see Heinen, DeBrusk, or Senyshyn break camp with the B's and become key contributors? Absolutely, but it doesn't mean I'm counting on it.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[BB88]

What are you not getting about this? Also, you are putting words in my mouth. I said I would love Laine on the B's, I'm just not ready to anoint him as the second coming of McJesus and would not count on him as a rookie.

That's called being prudent and/or realistic, not being down on a guy. Same goes for the B's prospects. Would I love to see Heinen, DeBrusk, or Senyshyn break camp with the B's and become key contributors? Absolutely, but it doesn't mean I'm counting on it.

Is that clear enough for you?

"Laine looks like the real deal and I would love him in Boston, but there is another player on your roster than did nearly as well as a 17 year old in the Finnish Elite League and he has never established himself in the NHL"

That's about Armia and the problem which shows you really haven't followed Liiga all that much or the 2.

Jets biggest problems last year were special teams(worst pp in the league) and goaltending which started this few days back.
Helle is NHL ready and they got to pick NHL ready Laine, they aren't expecting miracles but for him to improve their offense a bit, he's a franchise level prospect who won MVP title at the Worlds around NHL players& already is looked as having one of the best shots in the NHL.

So what can Boston offer Winnipeg for Trouba to get them say yes?
What can Boston offer them to potentially improve their weaknesses more than Laine, Connor or Helle?
Prospects won't do that, Bergeron isn't for sale, Spooner would be a 3rd liner for them now and longterm.

Don't even know why you brought DeBrusk, Seny and Heinen up.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

"Laine looks like the real deal and I would love him in Boston, but there is another player on your roster than did nearly as well as a 17 year old in the Finnish Elite League and he has never established himself in the NHL"

That's about Armia and the problem which shows you really haven't followed Liiga all that much or the 2.

Jets biggest problems last year were special teams(worst pp in the league) and goaltending which started this few days back.
Helle is NHL ready and they got to pick NHL ready Laine, they aren't expecting miracles but for him to improve their offense a bit, he's a franchise level prospect who won MVP title at the Worlds around NHL players& already is looked as having one of the best shots in the NHL.

So what can Boston offer Winnipeg for Trouba to get them say yes?
What can Boston offer them to potentially improve their weaknesses more than Laine, Connor or Helle?
Prospects won't do that, Bergeron isn't for sale, Spooner would be a 3rd liner for them now and longterm.

Don't even know why you brought DeBrusk, Seny and Heinen up.

So, you missed the first 13 words of the quote? Done with this conversation, because it's pointless. You either can't or won't comprehend what I'm saying.

 

[DominicT]

Joe, if you want in the poker game tonight, save your fingers

 

[BB88]

So, you missed the first 13 words of the quote? Done with this conversation, because it's pointless. You either can't or won't comprehend what I'm saying.

No I saw it, and I also saw that bolded claim which showed you haven't followed him all that much, which you can't admit.
If you didn't mention Armia I wouldn't have said anything.

Which affects a lot on how you see their team and their needs.
No one is expecting him to make the Jets a contender next year, just simply to help to improve their biggest weakness atleast a bit. He definitely has a better shot at improving their roster than any of the prospects Sweeney would be sending them, and they can add Laine without losing Trouba.

Boston really isn't interesting trading partner for Winnipeg, they are adding Connor, Laine and Helle into their roster and Scheifele, Ehlers and Trouba are one year older.

edit, from few days ago.
http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/drafting-laine-complicated-potential-trouba-trade-talks/

"Friedman: Drafting Laine ‘complicated’ potential Trouba trade talks"
“The one thing I do think is this, and I’ve been told this. Some teams that were trying to potentially talk trade with Winnipeg for Trouba… You know, when Winnipeg got Patrik Laine in the draft – they ended up second – it complicated the whole process. Because Winnipeg at one point in time was looking for scoring. Well now, they’ve got a tremendous young scorer. A guy who is going to be a stud in this league. So Winnipeg is looking at it and saying, ‘We don’t necessarily need that now.’ So a couple of teams have told me that Winnipeg getting Laine has complicated the entire process of getting a deal done there."

“I’m not sure where that one’s going to go. But Winnipeg, I think, is looking at it and saying, ‘Hey, we don’t have as many needs now, so if you want to get Jacob Trouba off our hands, it’s going to have to be a great offer. We’re not just giving him away.’”

 

[Bruin4Life]

Wonder if winnipeg would do something like

To Winnipeg
2017 first
2018 first
McQuaid
Morrow

To Boston:
Mark Stuart (cap dump. I know winnipeg hates him)
Jacob Trouba

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Wonder if winnipeg would do something like

To Winnipeg
2017 first
2018 first
McQuaid
Morrow

To Boston:
Mark Stuart (cap dump. I know winnipeg hates him)
Jacob Trouba

McQuaid and Stuart are a wash.

Trouba for 2 1sts and Morrow?

Sounds reasonable, but not enough incentive to make Winnipeg jump on it.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

If Trouba would sign a longterm contract with a good cap hit I'd make the trade.
He's younger, better and has more potential. He could be the answer for that top pairing RD spot for the next 10 years.
Trading for RD's isn't cheap.

I might make the deal, Trouba has more potential upside than Krug, but it is all potential at this point. Trouba was a mediocre #5 last season, not a high end top pairing guy.

That is the big concern with Trouba, he is more like a Hamiliton at this point than a Lindholm. A different type of player than Hamilton, as Hamilton was an explosive offensive force who had problems in his end. Trouba is more of a stay home guy who has shown poor hockey sense, and very limited offensive upside. But Lindholm has already shown he is the real deal, and a legitimate #1, Trouba has a long way to go to make it there.

Honestly I think Krug for Trouba makes you worse this season, and well it might make you better 2-3 years down the line, I just don't know I'd do it.

In general I don't believe in 3 way deals but a Trouba for Fowler makes a ton of sense for Winnepeg, and makes them a lot better, but is not a deal that works for Anaheim. So could Boston (or someone else), make a deal with Anaheim that makes a 3 way trade happen? That is the only way I think Boston has a chance of making a deal happen

 

[BruinDust]

McQuaid and Stuart are a wash.

Trouba for 2 1sts and Morrow?

Sounds reasonable, but not enough incentive to make Winnipeg jump on it.

Not if you believe Winnipeg fans.

Stuart is barely an NHL level D-man at this stage if you put any stock in their opinions. At least McQuaid is a more than capable bottom-pairing guy who can in short stints hold his own in a Top 4 role.

But still not enough to get Winnipeg to bite unless they are Joe Morrow fans, which I doubt they are, and I actually like Morrow but his value at this stage being waiver-eligible is minimal.

 

[BruinDust]

I might make the deal, Trouba has more potential upside than Krug, but it is all potential at this point. Trouba was a mediocre #5 last season, not a high end top pairing guy.

That is the big concern with Trouba, he is more like a Hamiliton at this point than a Lindholm. A different type of player than Hamilton, as Hamilton was an explosive offensive force who had problems in his end. Trouba is more of a stay home guy who has shown poor hockey sense, and very limited offensive upside. But Lindholm has already shown he is the real deal, and a legitimate #1, Trouba has a long way to go to make it there.

Honestly I think Krug for Trouba makes you worse this season, and well it might make you better 2-3 years down the line, I just don't know I'd do it.

In general I don't believe in 3 way deals but a Trouba for Fowler makes a ton of sense for Winnepeg, and makes them a lot better, but is not a deal that works for Anaheim. So could Boston (or someone else), make a deal with Anaheim that makes a 3 way trade happen? That is the only way I think Boston has a chance of making a deal happen

I have a hard time calling Trouba the Jets No.5 when he was tied for 2nd on the D in ice-time behind Buff.

That being said, I don't see him ever being a Norris-level guy, probably tops out at a notch below. He's not even at that tier yet, depending on who you ask his growth has stagnated since his rookie season. It happens, everyone's development curve is different.

I also agree the 3-way between Ana-Bos-Win is probably the only option to get Trouba to Boston. I don't see a match directly with Winnipeg. Fowler is a polarizing player, some love him, some hate him, the Winnipeg fans that don't like Fowler won't like this deal, but the basis of a deal is there that can serve all 3 teams now and going forward.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I might make the deal, Trouba has more potential upside than Krug, but it is all potential at this point. Trouba was a mediocre #5 last season, not a high end top pairing guy.

There's a whole lot of room between mediocre #5 and high end top pairing guy. Those aren't the only choices.

Right now: Good #3 with potential to be more.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Wonder if winnipeg would do something like

To Winnipeg
2017 first
2018 first
McQuaid
Morrow

To Boston:
Mark Stuart (cap dump. I know winnipeg hates him)
Jacob Trouba

If I'm Chevy I'll come back at that offer with a bottom line of replacing McQuaid with McAvoy. So ...

To Winnipeg
2017 first
2018 first
McAvoy
Morrow

To Boston
Mark Stuart
Jacob Trouba

It equals the 4 firsts they would likely receive in a Trouba offer sheet.

They get to dump Stewart, but we are also asking them to eat a first in Morrow who looks like his ceiling may be lower than it was in his draft year.