Proposal: Brodin to Habs

BuiumSaveUs

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Are you kidding me? Ryan Suzuki is a surefire top 6 prospect and Brodin hasn't even hit 30 points yet. If it creates too big a hole for your club, that's 1 thing, but my ass that offering Ryan Suzuki is considered lowballing for Brodin on a pure value level.
I think offering a player who has a chance to be an NHL player for a top 4 defensmen is lowballing. If Suzuki had the pedigree of a top end prospect, it wouldn’t be lowballing, but then why would you trade him?

You just don’t simply get top 4 defensmen who are top 20 in the league at shutting players down for a prospect who might be a top 6 center in the future.

Also, Brodin is a 25 point defensmen with no power play time whatsoever. He’s played the power play one game this year. If you take Suter off the power play, suter is a 30 point defensmen.
 

Habs Halifax

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If minnesota was going into a rebuild, I'd try to get Coyle and Brodin... 1st (lottery protected) + suzuki + ylonen + cap dump or something like that.

Not a smart move to trade a Grade A prospect in Suzuki for 2 and 3 year rentals that could walk into UFA. I'm interested in Coyle and Brodin but they are not getting a grade A prospect who is trending very well. Not going to happen, not for guys soon to be UFA. Maybe if they were RFA controlled

Brodin:
- Age 25
- Averages 20-25 pts per season
- Top 4D that does the little things well.
- UFA in 3 seasons (2021)

Coyle:
- Age 26
- Had one great year with 56 pts. He's all over the map with production.
- 30-40 pts middle 6 RW/C option? Big body with good skills
- UFA in 2 season (2020)

Not sure I understand why they would trade these young players? Trying to rebuild but they are not old? Regardless, they would bring in value on the trade market but grade A prospects? I doubt it. Brodin has more value due to being a reliable top 4D and he has one more year in term. I think a 1st (top 10 protection), a 2nd, and a grade B prospect fits. If that's the return they are looking for.

A Grade A prospect who is trending well and has top 6 potential? I think not
 

Habs Halifax

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I think offering a player who has a chance to be an NHL player for a top 4 defensmen is lowballing. If Suzuki had the pedigree of a top end prospect, it wouldn’t be lowballing, but then why would you trade him?

You just don’t simply get top 4 defensmen who are top 20 in the league at shutting players down for a prospect who might be a top 6 center in the future.

Also, Brodin is a 25 point defensmen with no power play time whatsoever. He’s played the power play one game this year. If you take Suter off the power play, suter is a 30 point defensmen.

Truth is in the middle. Brodin is good. A very good top 4D piece. However, he is UFA in 3 years. It would be a different story if he was RFA controlled.

We have to ask our selfs why Brodin does not get any PP time at this stage of his career? It's cause that's not his game. He never was a high producing D man in terms of production and likely never well. 20-30 pts guy that is strong on D.

In truth, there will be interest in him on the trade market. But NHL GM's are not going to trade Grade A prospects who are developing and trending very well in their draft +1 and +2 years for Brodin.
 

Digitalbooya

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Never mind then. Brodin is not worth Tatar, Mete, and another grade B piece alone. Were talking about a 20-30 pts top 4D man here. He's solid value but not that much.

- A center? What kind of center you looking for? You think you will get a top 2C potential for Brodin? I don't think so.
- A RW? This is possible. Habs have Ylonen but based on your over evaluation on Brodin alone, I pass. Thinking you can get Suzuki who is developing very well in his draft +1 and +2 years is not going to happen.
You completely missed the point of my post in your first paragraph. Tatar would be yet another left wing added to the clusterf*** that is Parise, Zucker, Nino, Greenway, (and Granlund). Mete is a nice piece but I’m looking to address needs not trade for an unneeded LW, a downgrade at LD and a throw in of some kind while also giving up the only right shot consistently in Minnesota’s top 9.

If you want Brodin+Coyle and you’re not willing to include Suzuki then at that point discussions end and I move on. Talk about ridiculous.
 

Captain Mountain

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I think offering a player who has a chance to be an NHL player for a top 4 defensmen is lowballing. If Suzuki had the pedigree of a top end prospect, it wouldn’t be lowballing, but then why would you trade him?

You just don’t simply get top 4 defensmen who are top 20 in the league at shutting players down for a prospect who might be a top 6 center in the future.

Also, Brodin is a 25 point defensmen with no power play time whatsoever. He’s played the power play one game this year. If you take Suter off the power play, suter is a 30 point defensmen.

They aren't trading Suzuki.
 

Randy Randerson

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Truth is in the middle. Brodin is good. A very good top 4D piece. However, he is UFA in 3 years. It would be a different story if he was RFA controlled.

We have to ask our selfs why Brodin does not get any PP time at this stage of his career? It's cause that's not his game. He never was a high producing D man in terms of production and likely never well. 20-30 pts guy that is strong on D.

In truth, there will be interest in him on the trade market. But NHL GM's are not going to trade Grade A prospects who are developing and trending very well in their draft +1 and +2 years for Brodin.
remember, you guys just got Suzuki for a guy who was over 30 with 1 year left instead of 3 who was a similar tier of trade value to Brodin before he started struggling, and you got some significant adds. If what you're saying here was true, Suzuki would still be Vegas property
 
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Habs Halifax

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You completely missed the point of my post in your first paragraph. Tatar would be yet another left wing added to the cluster**** that is Parise, Zucker, Nino, Greenway, (and Granlund). Mete is a nice piece but I’m looking to address needs not trade for an unneeded LW, a downgrade at LD and a throw in of some kind while also giving up the only right shot consistently in Minnesota’s top 9.

If you want Brodin+Coyle and you’re not willing to include Suzuki then at that point discussions end and I move on. Talk about ridiculous.

No I didn't miss the point. Relax. I clearly broke down my point and did ask for clarity on a few things that you ignored.

- Tatar plays both wings. Did you not read that?

- Suzuki is not on the table. Try getting another grade A prospect who is developing very well from another team. Good luck. Habs pass.
 

Digitalbooya

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Truth is in the middle. Brodin is good. A very good top 4D piece. However, he is UFA in 3 years. It would be a different story if he was RFA controlled.
Gallagher is good. A very good top 6 piece. However, he UFA in 3 years. His value in a trade must be mega trash because he is an UFA in 3 god damn years. Get real. Do you hear yourself?
 

Bazeek

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Fair. I have Three questions then

1) If Brodin is traded, what's the current and future depth at LD in the wild organization? Not sure I agree Mete don't fit their needs once Brodin is traded. Someone needs to explain their future LD outlook

2) A Center? What kind of center? Prospect or current NHL player? Think about Patch's return in a sign and trade value. Brodin does not have as much value as Patch and is UFA in 3 years. Vegas got Patch for 5 years. Were talking about a top 4D man with 20-25 pts in production. Yes I get he does more than put up points but thinking he will get a massive haul is not something I believe. A potential top 2 center? Come on man

3) RW. Tatar can play both wings. How does this not fit? Is it because they are after futures? Like Suzuki? I seriously doubt a team trades a grade A prospect who is trending very well for Brodin.
1.) Seeler's next on the depth chart. About the same age but probably more of a 3rd pairing guy overall. He's been a very capable player though, so I don't think he'd do poorly playing 2nd pairing minutes. We do have mostly righties in Iowa, to the extent that Belpedio's playing LD at the moment. There's Soucy and Bartkowski, who are probably tweeners/AHL guys.

The real thing with 2nd pairing LD is that it's not all that hard to acquire one in free agency. If we traded Brodin we'd presumably be extending Spurgeon, who can carry that pairing just fine with whoever the LD equivalent of Greg Pateryn is. So whether it's Seeler or a UFA, that spot's pretty easy to fill without Mete (I feel like there's a joke there, but I'll leave it).

2.) During the season: a middle-6 center, ideally the same age as Brodin but possibly a few years older. The criteria probably relaxes once the season's over (either formally or informally), at which point I don't think a futures package is out of the question.

3.) We've already got Granlund as a lefty playing RW, and Nino as a lefty who plays both sides. We've also got Sokolov down in Iowa, another lefty that plays RW. The deeper need is for rigth-shot forwards, which Tatar doesn't help with.

4.) There's no reason to trade Brodin unless doing so fills a bigger hole. We can handle losing a 2nd pairing defenseman if we're addressing a need, but Brodin's making $4m for the next 2.5 years. He's fine where he is.
 

Digitalbooya

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No I didn't miss the point. Relax. I clearly broke down my point and did ask for clarity on a few things that you ignored.

- Tatar plays both wings. Did you not read that?

- Suzuki is not on the table. Try getting another grade A prospect who is developing very well from another team. Good luck. Habs pass.
We need RIGHT HANDED PLAYERS. I swear these boards are like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

Suzuki is off the table? Goodbye.
 

Habs Halifax

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Gallagher is good. A very good top 6 piece. However, he UFA in 3 years. His value in a trade must be mega trash because he is an UFA in 3 god damn years. Get real. Do you hear yourself?

Nobody is saying Gallagher, Brodin, Colye are trash in value. The idea you will get a grade A prospect who is trending very well in both their draft +1 and +2 years is the problem here man. It's not going to happen.
 

Digitalbooya

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Nobody is saying Gallagher, Brodin, Colye are trash in value. The idea you will get a grade A prospect who is trending very well in both their draft +1 and +2 years is the problem here man. It's not going to happen.
K, then I find some other team to deal with or I keep Brodin. Simple. Thread closed.
 

Habs Halifax

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1.) Seeler's next on the depth chart. About the same age but probably more of a 3rd pairing guy overall. He's been a very capable player though, so I don't think he'd do poorly playing 2nd pairing minutes. We do have mostly righties in Iowa, to the extent that Belpedio's playing LD at the moment. There's Soucy and Bartkowski, who are probably tweeners/AHL guys.

The real thing with 2nd pairing LD is that it's not all that hard to acquire one in free agency. If we traded Brodin we'd presumably be extending Spurgeon, who can carry that pairing just fine with whoever the LD equivalent of Greg Pateryn is. So whether it's Seeler or a UFA, that spot's pretty easy to fill without Mete (I feel like there's a joke there, but I'll leave it).

2.) During the season: a middle-6 center, ideally the same age as Brodin but possibly a few years older. The criteria probably relaxes once the season's over, at which point I don't think a futures package is out of the question.

3.) We've already got Granlund as a lefty playing RW, and Nino as a lefty who plays both sides. We've also got Sokolov down in Iowa, another lefty that plays RW. The deeper need is for rigth-shot forwards, which Tatar doesn't help with.

4.) There's no reason to trade Brodin unless doing so fills a bigger hole. We can handle losing a 2nd pairing defenseman if we're addressing a need, but Brodin's making $4m for the next 2.5 years. He's fine where he is.

First off I will say THANK YOU for not resorting to nasty levels and focusing on the conversation. Some people are just way too sensitive and snap too quick on stupid stuff. It's a negotiation between fans and lets just talk and see what each side is saying. It's rare to have a deal that both sides agree on. Like very rare on HF boards.

1) Fair enough. If the Wild don't feel like they need young LD, then that's their prerogative. It just seems like it's another area of need to me and that's why I offered Mete and then asked for the clarity

2) So it's not necessarily a prospect or futures they are after with Brodin? Thanks for answering this. I was wondering. I know Bergevin would not trade Danault but does Danault fit?

3) I know Tatar is a left handed shot but he has played both wings. He's listed as a LW/RW player on many websites. Haven't seen him play RW with the Habs yet though. But that's because we don't need him at RW.

4) I respect the intentions of weather or not to trade Brodin or Coyle. Seems to me the Wild are not in panic mode to trade these young and soon to be UFA players. There is still time yet to see if they can increase their value.... If the Wild are even interested in trading him.


Now from the Habs perspective according to my perception.

- Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, Primeau are not on the table for guys who are 2 or 3 years from UFA. Not going to happen.
- Pieces like Mete, Ikonen, Ylonen, Evans, Lindgren, Fleury might be available
- 2nd's and 3rd's might be available.
- 1st's? This is tricky for the Habs. Even if we wait till deadline to ensure we have a better probability of knowing what the pick was and put top 10 protection on it, it still exposes us like it did with the Sens. Bergevin has never traded a 1st round pick (pre draft) so I don't see this happening
- Tatar, Petry, Byron, Danault, Shaw could be available depending on the trade and who is coming back the other way
- Salary retention is on the table. Habs have money and cap space
 

Habs Halifax

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K, then I find some other team to deal with or I keep Brodin. Simple. Thread closed.

Sure. No worries. Many trade conversations fall through. But you do get my point about the soon to be UFA though right? With Patch, the only way we could get that return is in a sign and trade. Vegas got Patch for 5 years and were also able to unload Tatar who was not a good fit for them.

Circumstance plays a huge factor.
 

Habs Halifax

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We need RIGHT HANDED PLAYERS. I swear these boards are like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

Suzuki is off the table? Goodbye.

You need to relax. How about just saying yeah, Tatar can play both wings but I prefer to have a RW who is a Right handed shot? What's your problem with talking and having a conversation? You totally ignored the LW/RW comment and went off on complain mode.

As far as Suzuki or getting someone similar. Talk to me when you get that from another team.
 
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Habs Halifax

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remember, you guys just got Suzuki for a guy who was over 30 with 1 year left instead of 3 who was a similar tier of trade value to Brodin before he started struggling, and you got some significant adds. If what you're saying here was true, Suzuki would still be Vegas property

You miss remembered or did not have all the details. It was a sign and trade value. Patch for 5 years, not as a pending UFA.

I have an answer to you if you disagree about weather it was a pending UFA return or a 5 year player return with Patch. It was confirmed to be a sign and trade by many sources when the trade was announced.
 

Bazeek

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First off I will say THANK YOU for not resorting to nasty levels and focusing on the conversation. Some people are just way too sensitive and snap too quick on stupid stuff. It's a negotiation between fans and lets just talk and see what each side is saying. It's rare to have a deal that both sides agree on. Like very rare on HF boards.

1) Fair enough. If the Wild don't feel like they need young LD, then that's their prerogative. It just seems like it's another area of need to me and that's why I offered Mete and then asked for the clarity

2) So it's not necessarily a prospect or futures they are after with Brodin? Thanks for answering this. I was wondering. I know Bergevin would not trade Danault but does Danault fit?

3) I know Tatar is a left handed shot but he has played both wings. He's listed as a LW/RW player on many websites. Haven't seen him play RW with the Habs yet though. But that's because we don't need him at RW.

4) I respect the intentions of weather or not to trade Brodin or Coyle. Seems to me the Wild are not in panic mode to trade these young and soon to be UFA players. There is still time yet to see if they can increase their value.... If the Wild are even interested in trading him.


Now from the Habs perspective according to my perception.

- Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, Primeau are not on the table for guys who are 2 or 3 years from UFA. Not going to happen.
- Pieces like Mete, Ikonen, Ylonen, Evans, Lindgren, Fleury might be available
- 2nd's and 3rd's might be available.
- 1st's? This is tricky for the Habs. Even if we wait till deadline to ensure we have a better probability of knowing what the pick was and put top 10 protection on it, it still exposes us like it did with the Sens. Bergevin has never traded a 1st round pick (pre draft) so I don't see this happening
- Tatar, Petry, Byron, Danault, Shaw could be available depending on the trade and who is coming back the other way
- Salary retention is on the table. Habs have money and cap space

2.) I haven't watched Danault much, but I'd hope Fenton is aiming higher if he trades Brodin.

3.) Again, it's not so much a need for a RW. We've got plenty of guys that can play RW. What we don't have is many righties that play RW (or C). Really it's more of a powerplay issue than a 5-on-5 one: Coyle's the only right-shot forward on the powerplay right now, and he hasn't been great at it. Kunin might get a shot there now that he's been called up, but he's played all of 1 NHL game since his ACL injury last year. So it's a soft spot.

I don't see much in that available list that is going to interest Minnesota for either Coyle or Brodin. Maybe the 1st or Danault for Coyle, though I personally don't really like it. Guys like Tatar, Petry and Shaw could all be appealing to the right team, I just don't think it's Minnesota. .

Who knows what the GMs are thinking, but I tend to agree with Habs fans: Coyle isn't really a need and the current rumors are probably driven more by previous interest, while Brodin would require a steeper price than the Canadiens should be paying right now.
 
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Digitalbooya

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Sure. No worries. Many trade conversations fall through. But you do get my point about the soon to be UFA though right? With Patch, the only way we could get that return is in a sign and trade. Vegas got Patch for 5 years and were also able to unload Tatar who was not a good fit for them.

Circumstance plays a huge factor.
They are not at all the same thing. Mid 20’s top 4 dmen are worth way more than old wingers. Three years is a long time as well (see below).
You need to relax. How about just saying yeah, Tatar can play both wings but I prefer to have a RW who is a Right handed shot? What's your problem with talking and having a conversation?

You totally ignored the LW/RW comment and went off on complain mode.

As far as Suzuki or getting someone similar. Talk to me when you get that from another team.
Very clearly stated here:
You completely missed the point of my post in your first paragraph. Tatar would be yet another left wing added to the cluster**** that is Parise, Zucker, Nino, Greenway, (and Granlund). Mete is a nice piece but I’m looking to address needs not trade for an unneeded LW, a downgrade at LD and a throw in of some kind while also giving up the only right shot consistently in Minnesota’s top 9.

If you want Brodin+Coyle and you’re not willing to include Suzuki then at that point discussions end and I move on. Talk about ridiculous.
One should be able to infer from the two bolder sentences that I want right handed forwards coming back in any trade.

I’d bet a lot of money that the Wild just keep Brodin and the reason I get pissy is because of the dumb “he’ll be an UFA in 3 years comment.” You know how much of your team would be left in three years if you didn’t sign/extend anybody? Drouin, Shaw, Byron, Weber, Price. And yes, I get that seven players are RFAs but my point still remains about how ridiculous your “UFA in 3 years” comments are. I understand if it’s a 1 year rental. But 3 years? Ridiculous.
 

Habs Halifax

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2.) I haven't watched Danault much, but I'd hope Fenton is aiming higher if he trades Brodin.

3.) Again, it's not so much a need for a RW. We've got plenty of guys that can play RW. What we don't have is many righties that play RW (or C). Really it's more of a powerplay issue than a 5-on-5 one: Coyle's the only right-shot forward on the powerplay right now, and he hasn't been great at it. Kunin might get a shot there now that he's been called up, but he's played all of 1 NHL game since his ACL injury last year. So it's a soft spot.

I don't see much in that available list that is going to interest Minnesota for either Coyle or Brodin. Maybe the 1st or Danault for Coyle, though I personally don't really like it. Guys like Tatar, Petry and Shaw could all be appealing to the right team, I just don't think it's Minnesota. .

Who knows what the GMs are thinking, but I tend to agree with Habs fans: Coyle isn't really a need and the current rumors are probably driven more by previous interest, while Brodin would require a steeper price than the Canadiens should be paying right now.

Good luck with your search and possible return for Brodin. He's a good all around top 4D no doubt. At this stage, I don't see a deal with the Habs.
 

Habs Halifax

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They are not at all the same thing. Mid 20’s top 4 dmen are worth way more than old wingers. Three years is a long time as well (see below).

Very clearly stated here:

One should be able to infer from the two bolder sentences that I want right handed forwards coming back in any trade.

I’d bet a lot of money that the Wild just keep Brodin and the reason I get pissy is because of the dumb “he’ll be an UFA in 3 years comment.” You know how much of your team would be left in three years if you didn’t sign/extend anybody? Drouin, Shaw, Byron, Weber, Price. And yes, I get that seven players are RFAs but my point still remains about how ridiculous your “UFA in 3 years” comments are. I understand if it’s a 1 year rental. But 3 years? Ridiculous.

I think we understand each other. Last few comments..

A old winger vs a mid 20's top 4D man. It's a bit more complicated than that and depends on contract term, age, how the player is trending, and how good they are in their NHL roles.

Focusing on Brodin... His sample size is consistent for a few seasons now. 20-25 pts, top 4D, who does the little things well. Were not talking about a young player in their 20's who has increased production year after year here. He is who he is at this stage more likely. And it's likely the reason why you are willing to trade him in the first place right?

Not trying to disrespect you but I think you are shooting a bit too high thinking you will yield a Suzuki type return. But good luck with it with other teams or keep Brodin
 

Dr Jan Itor

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I think we understand each other. Last few comments..

A old winger vs a mid 20's top 4D man. It's a bit more complicated than that and depends on contract term, age, how the player is trending, and how good they are in their NHL roles.

Focusing on Brodin... His sample size is consistent for a few seasons now. 20-25 pts, top 4D, who does the little things well. Were not talking about a young player in their 20's who has increased production year after year here. He is who he is at this stage more likely. And it's likely the reason why you are willing to trade him in the first place right?

Not trying to disrespect you but I think you are shooting a bit too high thinking you will yield a Suzuki type return. But good luck with it with other teams or keep Brodin

Probably, but it's a case of shooting high or not shooting at all.
 

57special

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Reality check here, guys.

Career stats

Danault 25 yo LHS 218 gp 27g 63 a

Coyle 26 yo RHS 449gp 86g 142a


They are not close statistically, and it's not like Coyle is some lightweight, net sucking offensive player. He's a very responsible and competent two way player. Wild fans get frustrated with Coyle because he looks dominant at times, then disappears. Don't let that frustration goad you into making a one sided deal such a Danault for him.
 

Digitalbooya

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I think we understand each other. Last few comments..

A old winger vs a mid 20's top 4D man. It's a bit more complicated than that and depends on contract term, age, how the player is trending, and how good they are in their NHL roles.

Focusing on Brodin... His sample size is consistent for a few seasons now. 20-25 pts, top 4D, who does the little things well. Were not talking about a young player in their 20's who has increased production year after year here. He is who he is at this stage more likely. And it's likely the reason why you are willing to trade him in the first place right?

Not trying to disrespect you but I think you are shooting a bit too high thinking you will yield a Suzuki type return. But good luck with it with other teams or keep Brodin
Perhaps you overrate a guy who could just as easily never become an NHLer vs two legit NHLers who are both under 27. Just think, Suzuki was included with two +’s for old man Pacioretty. Now suddenly he can garner more than a legit top 6 RW and top 4 shutdown dman (both under 27) all on his own. Perhaps tempered expectations are needed on Suzuki and a reality check on his value.
 

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