Proposal: Brodin to Habs

[Randy Randerson]

But this “evidence” of yours that you aren’t even bringing forth is just your spiteful opinions, it’s evidence in your mind only. It’s not reality.

The Habs trading for Suzuki is a result of my (imagined) spite for the habs, and never really happened?

God you are full of it, i’dd like to see 1 knowledgeable Wild fan who would agree with what you just said.

sure, let's ask them to comment. Do Wild fans think that current Brodin is as valuable an asset as Pacioretty when he was traded considering position, contract, age and performance leading up to the trade?

 

[Cobra Commander]

The Habs trading for Suzuki is a result of my (imagined) spite for the habs, and never really happened?


sure, let's ask them to comment. Do Wild fans think that current Brodin is as valuable an asset as Pacioretty when he was traded considering position, contract, age and performance leading up to the trade?

Brodin was never worth close to Pacioretty, you are out to lunch.

You’re r a spiteful Habs hater.

You’re just here to try and devalue our players.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Brodin was never worth close to Pacioretty, you are out to lunch.

Your a spiteful Habs hater.

let's see what the Wild fans think about those values, as you suggested

 

[Cobra Commander]

let's see what the Wild fans think about those values, as you suggested

It was always Pacioretty > Brodin

 

[Randy Randerson]

It was always Pacioretty > Brodin

didn't you suggest to see what other people thought? let's do that rather than make assumptions

 

[Bazeek]

let's see what the Wild fans think about those values, as you suggested

I would have been livid if they had traded Brodin for Pacioretty, but I was generally very anti-Pacioretty. Team needs definitely played a role there: we didn't need LW's and we should not have been looking to extend him. His eventual extension with Las Vegas seems pretty reasonable, but it'd be a horrible fit with Minnesota.

How the two players' abstract value compares isn't an argument I care about, really.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I would have been livid if they had traded Brodin for Pacioretty, but I was generally very anti-Pacioretty. Team needs definitely played a role there: we didn't need LW's and we should not have been looking to extend him. His eventual extension with Las Vegas seems pretty reasonable, but it'd be a horrible fit with Minnesota.

How the two players' abstract value compares isn't an argument I care about, really.

fair to say comparable value in abstract though? that's really the heart of the argument

 

[AKL]

I would have been livid if they had traded Brodin for Pacioretty, but I was generally very anti-Pacioretty. Team needs definitely played a role there: we didn't need LW's and we should not have been looking to extend him. His eventual extension with Las Vegas seems pretty reasonable, but it'd be a horrible fit with Minnesota.

How the two players' abstract value compares isn't an argument I care about, really.

I agree with this.

As for abstract value, Pacioretty is the one who puts up bigger numbers so I’m sure it’s easier to say he has more, but when it comes down to it, I don’t think the difference is so egregious, so I think team need would be a huge factor.

He had a really bad year last year, there were obvious question marks about his future as it’s an age when it’s not unrealistic for a goal scorer to begin a decline. With his contract situation up in the air too, that was another question mark. His numbers so far this year are better, but he’s still pacing below his 35 goal, 65 point average of the prior seasons.

 

[Cobra Commander]

didn't you suggest to see what other people thought? let's do that rather than make assumptions

Sure go ahead. But to think that the Habs would trade away their best goal scorer for a defensive defenseman who can generate a little bit of offense? So you trade away 30+ goals and you don’t get a young sniper coming back to replace him for the future?and you can’t replace some goals that you are loosing right now?(the reason Tatar was in this deal).

Seriously? That is a move you make if you’re the Habs? You’re full of it. If Pacioretty was a Leaf NO WAY IN HELL you would have traded him for Brodin.

 

[Bazeek]

fair to say comparable value in abstract though? that's really the heart of the argument

At the time of the trade? I'd say so, but it's awkward to compare a 29 year old scoring LW to a 25 year old defensive defenseman. Pacioretty's history works in his favor, Brodin's age works in his. It's not an argument I'd get into with Habs fans, anyway.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I would have been livid if they had traded Brodin for Pacioretty, but I was generally very anti-Pacioretty. Team needs definitely played a role there: we didn't need LW's and we should not have been looking to extend him. His eventual extension with Las Vegas seems pretty reasonable, but it'd be a horrible fit with Minnesota.

How the two players' abstract value compares isn't an argument I care about, really.

Might have been a bad fit, that’s not the question. Randy loves to manipulate things.

Pacioretty > Brodin

Value wise, it has always been this.

There was never a trade to be made here. Don’t twist things up.

 

[Cobra Commander]

At the time of the trade? I'd say so, but it's awkward to compare a 29 year old scoring LW to a 25 year old defensive defenseman. Pacioretty's history works in his favor, Brodin's age works in his. It's not an argument I'd get into with Habs fans, anyway.

The question that Randy is desperately trying to manipulate is who has more value.

And the answer has always been Pacioretty, and still is.

This was not the trade proposal.

The proposal was:

Suzuki
Shlemko

For

Brodin

 

[Cobra Commander]

I agree with this.

As for abstract value, Pacioretty is the one who puts up bigger numbers so I’m sure it’s easier to say he has more, but when it comes down to it, I don’t think the difference is so egregious, so I think team need would be a huge factor.

He had a really bad year last year, there were obvious question marks about his future as it’s an age when it’s not unrealistic for a goal scorer to begin a decline. With his contract situation up in the air too, that was another question mark. His numbers so far this year are better, but he’s still pacing below his 35 goal, 65 point average of the prior seasons.

He started slow and has been on fire, that’s how he is. Last year was a very bad year for the whole team. He will hit 30+ again this season. Ovechkin was finished a few seasons ago when he had a bad season remember??

Pacioretty > Brodin

To argue against this is very Randy Randerson ish

 

[Bazeek]

Might have been a bad fit, that’s not the question. Randy loves to manipulate things.

Pacioretty > Brodin

Value wise, it has always been this.

There was never a trade to be made here. Don’t twist things up.

I get that "value" makes for convenient shorthand in trade discussions between fans, but it's utterly imaginary. You can't convert these players into HFBucks or whatever. There's no exchange rate. The closest you could do is boil them down to draft picks, but even that's influenced largely by context and team needs.

A young, established LD on a good contract seems around the same value as an older scoring LW that needs an expensive extension. But treating the abstractions like they're precisely quantifiable seems dumb to me.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I get that "value" makes for convenient shorthand in trade discussions between fans, but it's utterly imaginary. You can't convert these players into HFBucks or whatever. There's no exchange rate. The closest you could do is boil them down to draft picks, but even that's influenced largely by context and team needs.

A young, established LD on a good contract seems around the same value as an older scoring LW that needs an expensive extension. But treating the abstractions like they're precisely quantifiable seems dumb to me.

Pacioretty is signed for 4 more years at 7 mil! That’s great value for 30+ goals.

He just turned 30, he still has many years of goal scoring left.

Ok sure Brodin is 25, that’s the only advantage, but Brodin doesn’t generate much offense of his own. Any defenseman playing his minutes will get some points. An absolute scrub could get 10-15 points.

We traded our 30+ goal scorer for hopefully our next 30+ goal scorer in Suzuki

You don’t trade Pacioretty who’s worth big pieces for a guy like Brodin who you can assemble a package FOR.

Am I making any sense to you?

Randy has Randersoned this away from the deal that makes sense for everyone.

Suzuki
Shlemko

For

Brodin

Neither team ever has to see the other player much again.

Trust me it will hurt much more for Habs fans in the future watching Suzuki in a wild Jersey and not a Habs one.

 

[Bazeek]

Pacioretty is signed for 4 more years at 7 mil! That’s great value for 30+ goals.

He just turned 30, he still has many years of goal scoring left.

Ok sure Brodin is 25, that’s the only advantage, but Brodin doesn’t generate much offense of his own. Any defenseman playing his minutes will get some points. An absolute scrub could get 10-15 points.

We traded our 30+ goal scorer for hopefully our next 30+ goal scorer in Suzuki

You don’t trade Pacioretty who’s worth big pieces for a guy like Brodin who you can assemble a package FOR.

Am I making any sense to you?

Randy has Randersoned this away from the deal that makes sense for everyone.

Suzuki
Shlemko

For

Brodin

Neither team ever has to see the other player much again.

Trust me it will hurt much more for Habs fans in the future watching Suzuki in a wild Jersey and not a Habs one.

Like I said, Pacioretty's extension is reasonable given when he brings. Now try to fit that contract on the Wild and find a place for him to play. There's probably a team out there that would trade Brodin for Pacioretty, it's just not Minnesota.

I haven't seen enough of Suzuki to have a strong opinion on the latter trade. From looking at his stats I don't see anything that makes him stand out from guys we already have in the system, but projecting junior players from their stat lines is futile. I plead ignorance.

 

[Brando]

I believe that's low unless you're placing some value on Schlemko, the conversation that you're asserting yourself into here is the other guy saying that guys like Suzuki don't get traded (without pluses) for guys like Brodin at all. Is that a position you agree with?


Pacioretty is an example that we just went through in some detail, and we drew a parallel with the Hall/Larsson deal that draws a line in value between Pac and Brodin. Trying to get too granular like that and find an exact match will end with no results. Instead, I'd like you to show an example of a similar player to Brodin getting traded for something centered around a prospect, and show that the prospect is obviously less valuable than Suzuki. I've shown my work already, show yours

Tavares is also declining from a very high plateau, he'll likely be a good player at 35 but also not the player that he is now and probably not worth his cap hit at that point. His game also isn't speed dependent which might help him age well as his footspeed declines, yet to be seen

No I'm just arguing that I think Suzuki and Brodin are almost equal in value and that it would be a fair trade if it were to occur.

 

[Randy Randerson]

At the time of the trade? I'd say so, but it's awkward to compare a 29 year old scoring LW to a 25 year old defensive defenseman. Pacioretty's history works in his favor, Brodin's age works in his. It's not an argument I'd get into with Habs fans, anyway.

It was in response to a Hab poster saying that it's unreasonable that Suzuki be included in a trade for a player of Brodin's caliber where they literally just acquired Suzuki by trading a player of Brodin's caliber

No I'm just arguing that I think Suzuki and Brodin are almost equal in value and that it would be a fair trade if it were to occur.

I still think the balance lies in Brodin's favour by a fair margin as in some adds of lesser value on the Suzuki side, but we agree on the neighbourhood of the value

Sure go ahead. But to think that the Habs would trade away their best goal scorer for a defensive defenseman who can generate a little bit of offense? So you trade away 30+ goals and you don’t get a young sniper coming back to replace him for the future?and you can’t replace some goals that you are loosing right now?(the reason Tatar was in this deal).

Seriously? That is a move you make if you’re the Habs? You’re full of it. If Pacioretty was a Leaf NO WAY IN HELL you would have traded him for Brodin.

trading Pacioretty for Brodin was not a topic that was broached in my convo, it was about the balance of trade value between them as evidence that Brodin is definitely worth Suzuki in a vacuum despite what the other habs homer said

but, aren't you guys looking for top 4 LHD, and weren't you driving Pacioretty out of town as fast as possible? Doesn't seem like it would have been unreasonable if Brodin were available at the time. I do think the Wild would have said absolutely not, though

 

[Cobra Commander]

It was in response to a Hab poster saying that it's unreasonable that Suzuki be included in a trade for a player of Brodin's caliber where they literally just acquired Suzuki by trading a player of Brodin's caliber

I still think the balance lies in Brodin's favour by a fair margin as in some adds of lesser value on the Suzuki side, but we agree on the neighbourhood of the value

Pacioretty is a player of Brodin’s caliber? Wrong again.

When talking about value

Offense > Defense

Pacioretty bring great offense AND defense to the table.

Brodin brings great defense and LITTLE offense to the table.

Starting to understand or still no?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Pacioretty is a player of Brodin’s caliber? Wrong again.

When talking about value

Offense > Defense

Pacioretty bring great offense AND defense to the table.

Brodin brings great defense and LITTLE offense to the table.

Starting to understand or still no?

I still understand that you don't understand, if that's what you mean

 

[Digitalbooya]

Pacioretty has way more value than Brodin? Haha, Habs fans... So typical. Just like Suzuki>Brodin+Coyle. Good ol' HF back at it again.

 

[2Pair]

It was always Pacioretty > Brodin

Pacioretty doesn't get you Brodin

 

[ole ole]

Pacioretty has way more value than Brodin? Haha, Habs fans... So typical. Just like Suzuki>Brodin+Coyle. Good ol' HF back at it again.

Suzuki>Brodin+Coyle.
Where did you see that. What post # again?
Or is this another typical TROLL post from you.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Pacioretty doesn't get you Brodin

The deal was Suzuki + Shlemko for Brodin

 

[Cobra Commander]

I still understand that you don't understand, if that's what you mean

I like how you “liked” your buddy’s made up proposal.

Do you understand

Suzuki > any of your prospects

Brook > any of your prospects

Suzuki + Shlemko for Brodin is great for the Wild, it’s us who might start to regret it in 3 years.