Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[Atomos2]

Ottawa is a terrible team and yet has a better powerplay and a better penalty kill than Toronto does.

It can't be that hard to find personnel to replace what Marner is providing in that area.

In any event, Marner is a great player, there's no doubt about it. The points and skill level speak for themselves.

But I don't think you can be so cavalier about what Tkachuk provides that Toronto glaringly lacks, but keep mocking the guy if it makes you feel better.

Again, there's nothing intangible or mysterious about it. It is extremely tangible in a physically dominating way.

We saw first-hand last weekend as Brady pretty much had the run of the offensive zone and no one could stop him.

Too bad it only happens once in a while or they'd be winning enough games to put them in a playoff position.

Look Tkachuk isn't a bad player. But if you're comparing him to a player that has been 1st team all star for 2 straight years and has consistently put up a 90+ point pace for almost as many years as Tkachuk has been in the league, he has to bring more to the table than just physically dominating once in a while.

 

[Bileur]

Too bad it only happens once in a while or they'd be winning enough games to put them in a playoff position.

Look Tkachuk isn't a bad player. But if you're comparing him to a player that has been 1st team all star for 2 straight years and has consistently put up a 90+ point pace for almost as many years as Tkachuk has been in the league, he has to bring more to the table than just physically dominating once in a while.

Once in a while? He’s third in hits over the last 5 seasons.

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5th in major penalties.

He’s easily one of the most physically dominant forwards in the league.

 

[Atomos2]

Once in a while? He’s third in hits over the last 5 seasons.

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5th in major penalties.

He’s easily one of the most physically dominant forwards in the league.

So he hits a lot but it doesn’t result in many wins. If it’s so easy to find a pker to take Marner’s spot, how hard would it be to find someone who can hit a bunch.

Leafs could just bring back Uncle Leo. Leafs need Tkachuk because they’d be a good team with the added element he brings. But you don’t subtract what makes them a good team to bring him on.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Once in a while? He’s third in hits over the last 5 seasons.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

5th in major penalties.

He’s easily one of the most physically dominant forwards in the league.

Helps that Ottawa rarely has the puck

 

[Bileur]

So he hits a lot but it doesn’t result in many wins. If it’s so easy to find a pker to take Marner’s spot, how hard would it be to find someone who can hit a bunch.

Leafs could just bring back Uncle Leo. Leafs need Tkachuk because they’d be a good team with the added element he brings. But you don’t subtract what makes them a good team to bring him on.

Brady has 725 more hits than any leaf over that time frame (more games played, but damn thays a lot). I don’t think it would be as easy as you seem to think to find, particularly not in a first line player.

Only Reaves and Gudas have more but they’re less impactful because they’re not out against top competition wearing down the opposing team’s best players.

Hits are only a part of what he does physically. His dominance along the boards and at the net front are huge. I don’t think you understand how rare he is.

Leo Komarov in his prime didn’t come close to Brady’s impact.

Helps that Ottawa rarely has the puck

Are either of you actually disputing that he’s one of the most physical players in the game?

Raw hit stats are just an indicator but they definitely pass the eye test.

 

[Atomos2]

Brady has 725 more hits than any leaf over that time frame (more games played, but damn thays a lot). I don’t think it would be as easy as you seem to think to find, particularly not in a first line player.

Only Reaves and Gudas have more but they’re less impactful because they’re not out against top competition wearing down the opposing team’s best players.

Hits are only a part of what he does physically. His dominance along the boards and at the net front are huge. I don’t think you understand how rare he is.

Leo Komarov in his prime didn’t come close to Brady’s impact.



Are either of you actually disputing that he’s one of the most physical players in the game?

Raw hit stats are just an indicator but they definitely pass the eye test.

As I said, when those hits start turning into more wins for his team, then I'd acknowledge Brady's impact on the game when compared to Marner. The Leafs are a top 5 team and that's with Marner having a hand in everything. 1st line, 1st pp, 1st pk, 5on3 pp, 5on3 pk, last minute when down a goal, last minute when defending a lead. Overtime, 4 on 4 etc.. Keefe puts him on every chance he gets. Hell Keefe was even trying him as a defenceman. All this while putting up elite offense.

You just don't take that out of the lineup of a top team for an unknown variable who's play doesn't correlate to more wins for the team he plays for. No team/GM would do that to their lineup because it's completely silly. Brady's play is nice when it's an addition to Marner, but like I said, causes more holes in the lineup as a replacement.

 

[Rals]

No team/GM would do that to their lineup because it's completely silly.

Well Kyle wouldn't. Sweeney might

 

[MAB1]

Tkachuk is probably the 3rd or 4th best forward on a championship level team. Marner is probably the 2nd best player on a championship team.

A better comparison would be Nylander and Tkachuk. There's nothing Brady does better than Mitch other than playing in the most irrelevant market in Canada that only gets recognition because the Leafs & Habs are right next to them.

Sens get overhyped every year and when they fall flat on their face nobody cares because that team is an afterthought to begin with.

 

[jbeck5]

Tkachuk is probably the 3rd or 4th best forward on a championship level team. Marner is probably the 2nd best player on a championship team.

A better comparison would be Nylander and Tkachuk. There's nothing Brady does better than Mitch other than playing in the most irrelevant market in Canada that only gets recognition because the Leafs & Habs are right next to them.

Sens get overhyped every year and when they fall flat on their face nobody cares because that team is an afterthought to begin with.

Lol why do you care about the sens so much?

 

[Xspyrit]

Not a chance. Better players get paid more. That doesn't mean you trade them for worse players.

So coming back on this, still very busy but just wanted to see if the poll results would be sufficient or do you need me to come back on all points?

As a GM, which player do you take? (contract considered)

As a GM, which player do you take? Contracts are of course considered This is the term they have left after this season : Mitch Marner ($10,903,000 x 2 years then UFA) Brady Tkachuk ($8,205,714 x 5 years then UFA)

forums.hfboards.com

63-36 for Tkachuk. Even some Leafs fans picking Tkachuk.

But you said "not a chance"

Is it becoming clear why it's hard to discuss rationally with you as you're a bit on the "homer side"? Plus, that reading comprehension, oof.

Helps that Ottawa rarely has the puck

lol you didn't learn anything from the pandemic about spreading misinformation?

Sens at ES :

CF% : 6th
SF% 10th
GF% : 28th (the problem)
xGF% : 8th
SCF% : 8th
HDCF% : 8th

Tkachuk is probably the 3rd or 4th best forward on a championship level team. Marner is probably the 2nd best player on a championship team.

IMO, Stutzle, Norris and Batherson (more the version from last season) are better than Tkachuk so I would agree with this. Some would argue DeBrincat and/or Giroux but whatever, agree that Tkachuk is more the 3rd/4th best forward on the Sens

The rest of your post was just too childish/provocative to even bother so I skipped

 

[Dekes For Days]

So coming back on this, still very busy but just wanted to see if the poll results would be sufficient or do you need me to come back on all points?

As a GM, which player do you take? (contract considered)

As a GM, which player do you take? Contracts are of course considered This is the term they have left after this season : Mitch Marner ($10,903,000 x 2 years then UFA) Brady Tkachuk ($8,205,714 x 5 years then UFA)

forums.hfboards.com

63-36 for Tkachuk. Even some Leafs fans picking Tkachuk.
But you said "not a chance"
Is it becoming clear why it's hard to discuss rationally with you as you're a bit on the "homer side"? Plus, that reading comprehension, oof.

There is not a chance that the Leafs would trade Marner for Tkachuk.
As you've been shown repeatedly throughout this thread, Marner is unquestionably the better player.
Heck, you were even shown that pretty extensively in the linked second poll you created when you didn't like the results of the first poll, by somebody who is very much not a Leaf fan.
He is better offensively. He is better defensively. He also brings actual additional impacts with elite PKing. They are on whole different tiers as players.
You have agreed Marner is better. You have agreed the differences are significant. And yet somehow when it comes time to put those facts together for the obvious rational conclusion, you refuse to acknowledge it, refuse to respond, hide behind a silly poll, and throw around personal attacks that apply to yourself more than anybody you're trying to insult.
I think it's time to just admit you're wrong.

 

[DJB]

There is not a chance that the Leafs would trade Marner for Tkachuk.
As you've been shown repeatedly throughout this thread, Marner is unquestionably the better player.
Heck, you were even shown that pretty extensively in the linked second poll you created when you didn't like the results of the first poll, by somebody who is very much not a Leaf fan.
He is better offensively. He is better defensively. He also brings actual additional impacts with elite PKing. They are on whole different tiers as players.
You have agreed Marner is better. You have agreed the differences are significant. And yet somehow when it comes time to put those facts together for the obvious rational conclusion, you refuse to acknowledge it, refuse to respond, hide behind a silly poll, and throw around personal attacks that apply to yourself more than anybody you're trying to insult.
I think it's time to just admit you're wrong.

And yet a guy like Tkachuk is exactly what the Leafs need in their top 6.

Until that top 6 is anything other than buttery soft Leafs aren’t winning in the playoffs

 

[JimmyApples]

I don’t trust Marner in the playoffs. He has like 2 goals in the last 20+ games in the playoffs and you always see him giving up on plays to avoid getting hit.

 

[swiftwin]

I don’t trust Marner in the playoffs. He has like 2 goals in the last 20+ games in the playoffs and you always see him giving up on plays to avoid getting hit.

or panicking and throwing the puck over the glass.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And yet a guy like Tkachuk is exactly what the Leafs need in their top 6.

The Leafs don't "need" anything in their top 6. They are one of the best teams in the league. Tkachuk is a great player and would be great to have, but if we're taking out Marner to get him, that's just giant steps backward.

 

[jbeck5]

The Leafs don't "need" anything in their top 6. They are one of the best teams in the league. Tkachuk is a great player and would be great to have, but if we're taking out Marner to get him, that's just giant steps backward.

To make the playoffs or advance a round? That changes a lot of what they need or don't.

You're right in that they don't need anything to make the playoffs.

You're wrong that they don't need anything to make some noise in the playoffs.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Yeah, the Sens were a OT goal away from the final in 2017. Then they went into a full rebuild with no expectations of playoffs until this or next season.

When were the leafs last that successful? 1993?

All teams go through cycles. But not being able to win a playoff series with your best roster in 3 decades is...a special type of sad.

All NHL fans have the moral authority to criticise the leafs.

The expectations going into the Sens rebuild was to not make the playoffs for 6 or 7 years?

 

[Byron Bitz]

To make the playoffs or advance a round? That changes a lot of what they need or don't.

You're right in that they don't need anything to make the playoffs.

You're wrong that they don't need anything to make some noise in the playoffs.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say the Leafs don’t have what they need to advance a round. This core has played in 9 potential series winning games where they were just one lucky bounce away from winning the series. It’s just insane bad luck that they didn’t win atleast one of those series.

 

[Dekes For Days]

To make the playoffs or advance a round?

To win the cup. The Leafs, like all teams, have areas they could upgrade, but they are one of the best teams in the league and have one of the best chances at a cup already.
Switching Marner for Tkachuk just makes the team worse and decreases their chance.

 

[Rals]

Another GWG last night.
....if only he played a couple minutes on the PK....

 

[DJB]

The Leafs don't "need" anything in their top 6. They are one of the best teams in the league. Tkachuk is a great player and would be great to have, but if we're taking out Marner to get him, that's just giant steps backward.

Enjoy another year not winning the Cup.

Th Leafs are built for the regular season and not the playoffs.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Enjoy another year not winning the Cup.

Th Leafs are built for the regular season and not the playoffs.

I'm not a fan of either team...but atleast they are making the playoffs

 

[DJB]

I'm not a fan of either team...but atleast they are making the playoffs

Like I wrote earlier, Sens can’t overcome our terrible owners, GM and coach.

I’m in full agreement with you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Enjoy another year not winning the Cup.

I'll take one of the best chances at winning the cup over not making the playoffs, any day.

 

[jbeck5]

I don’t think it’s accurate to say the Leafs don’t have what they need to advance a round. This core has played in 9 potential series winning games where they were just one lucky bounce away from winning the series. It’s just insane bad luck that they didn’t win atleast one of those series.

Or, they needed more.

To win the cup. The Leafs, like all teams, have areas they could upgrade, but they are one of the best teams in the league and have one of the best chances at a cup already.
Switching Marner for Tkachuk just makes the team worse and decreases their chance.

In the season or in the playoffs?

2 very different things.

For example: Hossa was a better regular season player than Gary Roberts in the 2000-2004 era, but Roberts was better than Hossa in the playoffs..


The Leafs are a very good regular season team, no one is disputing that.

But if we're talking making a playoff run, they need more oomph.