Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[Dekes For Days]

In the season or in the playoffs?

In both, obviously.
But keep acting like somebody who has never even played in the playoffs is a playoff legend. It's quite funny.

 

[1specter]

Enjoy another year not winning the Cup.

Th Leafs are built for the regular season and not the playoffs.

Let me know if you still have a team in 10 years.

 

[jbeck5]

In both, obviously.
But keep acting like somebody who has never even played in the playoffs is a playoff legend. It's quite funny.

When did I act in such a way?

I'm responding to someone saying the Leafs don't need anything.

What are you talking about?

Why are you even quoting me if you're talking about something I didn't say or talk about?

 

[jbeck5]

Let me know if you still have a team in 10 years.

What? Like he's just gonna stop following hockey?

I'm not a fan of either team...but atleast they are making the playoffs

They're at different times in their cycles... Toronto's window will close soon and they haven't got passed the first round...Ottawa's window hasn't opened yet..it's about to open..

So the comment you quoted still stands, and what you responded isn't as relevant as you think.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When did I act in such a way?

Literally the whole time.

I'm responding to someone saying the Leafs don't need anything.

All teams have wants and areas they can upgrade to increase their chances. The Leafs are no exception to this, but they don't need anything to win the cup. The team they already have is an elite, well-balanced team that is fully capable of doing that. Exchanging a better player for a worse player does not help anything.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

They're at different times in their cycles... Toronto's window will close soon and they haven't got passed the first round...Ottawa's window hasn't opened yet..it's about to open..

So the comment you quoted still stands, and what you responded isn't as relevant as you think.

Yes it's relevant...one team is making the playoffs and the other isn't. I understand you have a younger team, but Toronto's main core is only a couple years older than yours. Your two teams will be fighting for playoff spots/matchups for the foreseeable future.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of either team, but one team is clearly ahead of the other right now, so before you start mocking Toronto's playoff abilities, your team needs to make the playoffs and prove they can do better with their current core.

 

[jbeck5]

Literally the whole time.

All teams have wants and areas they can upgrade to increase their chances. The Leafs are no exception to this, but they don't need anything to win the cup. The team they already have is an elite, well-balanced team that is fully capable of doing that. Exchanging a better player for a worse player does not help anything.

It could though, technically.

A team that is equipped to win the president's trophy can be less equipped to win in the playoffs than a lower seed.

Sometimes, certain team builds are just better for the playoffs, even if they'll get you less regular season points.

I'm sure fans of every team have examples of some of their stacked teams getting 100+ point seasons and coming up empty in the playoffs, only to return with what looks like a weaker team on paper, and they finish lower in the standings, only to make deep runs in the playoffs.

It happens quite often.

Why? Because often when you have a shit ton of skill, but no character, trading skill for character, can actually make your team more dangerous in the playoffs, even if you might not have as sexy regular season stats.

That's why I ask, regular season or playoffs.

Because I definitely agree that if the Leafs trade marner for tkachuk, they're getting less regular season points...but do they fair better or worse in the playoffs? I'm not as confident saying the Leafs are worse in the playoffs with the trade. And this isn't even trying to peg tkachuk as proven for the playoffs. I just have seen so many times how a team became less skilled, but more character, and went to new heights in the playoffs.

And I'm not even knocking marner's character. I like his attitude. I just think tkachuk has elite level character.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes it's relevant...one team is making the playoffs and the other isn't. I understand you have a younger team, but Toronto's main core is only a couple years older than yours. Your two teams will be fighting for playoff spots/matchups for the foreseeable future.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of either team, but one team is clearly ahead of the other right now, so before you start mocking Toronto's playoff abilities, your team needs to make the playoffs and prove they can do better with their current core.

Or the other way around.

The Leafs regular seasons are nice, but the sens have won many many playoff rounds since Toronto last won a round. They've went to the Cup finals and then the conference finals.

You could say, the onus is on the Leafs to prove that they can do better with their current core.

They still haven't surpassed the finals or conference finals.

See, you can flip that argument...or you can agree they're at different times in their cycles, and in the time the Leafs need to win the in playoffs, they haven't been able to. When Ottawa's turn was to win in the playoffs, they actually did. Now it's the Leafs turn, and they haven't. In the next few years we'll see if the sens can when it's their turn.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Or the other way around.

The Leafs regular seasons are nice, but the sens have won many many playoff rounds since Toronto last won a round. They've went to the Cup finals and then the conference finals.

You could say, the onus is on the Leafs to prove that they can do better with their current core.

They still haven't surpassed the finals or conference finals.

See, you can flip that argument...or you can agree they're at different times in their cycles, and in the time the Leafs need to win the in playoffs, they haven't been able to. When Ottawa's turn was to win in the playoffs, they actually did. Now it's the Leafs turn, and they haven't. In the next few years we'll see if the sens can when it's their turn.

Okay but Ottawa's current core has yet to make the playoffs. So again, before mocking Toronto's current core, your current core needs to prove they can also make the playoffs, which has yet to happen.

 

[jbeck5]

Okay but Ottawa's current core has yet to make the playoffs. So again, before mocking Toronto's current core, your current core needs to prove they can also make the playoffs, which has yet to happen.

But like I said, our current core is not at that stage yet.

When Ottawa's last core was their turn to win in the playoffs, they won rounds. This is when Toronto was bottom of the league.

When Toronto's current core is their turn to win in the playoffs, they have yet to win a round. This is when Ottawa is at the bottom of the league.

You see how they're on opposite cycles?

Ottawa fans, which are there for all cores that come through, can absolutely talk smack about when it's their turn to win, they do win, and when it's the Leafs turn to win, they don't win.

Obviously we will see if that trend continues when Ottawas time to compete comes.

It's as if they're in a shootout and Ottawas shooter scored (their previous core) then Toronto's shooter (current core) went up and missed. Ottawas core is lining up and about to take their next shot. At this point, sens fans can be happy. It's only once they take their shot and miss that they can go "oh, now we're in the same boat as Toronto was" (missing their shot).

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Okay I'm not having a conversation about a metaphorical shootout between Ottawa and Toronto going through their different competition phases lol.

I'm taking Marner here.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It could though, technically.

No, getting worse does not increase your chances. That fact does not change, regular season or playoffs.

Sometimes, certain team builds are just better for the playoffs, even if they'll get you less regular season points.

That's really not true. There is no "playoff build" and "regular season build". You seem to be mistaking and misattributing what causes lesser teams to sometimes go on runs or beat better teams over small samples.

And this isn't even trying to peg tkachuk as proven for the playoffs.

It literally is. You're suggesting he's a better option in the playoffs (despite never even making the playoffs) than one of the best players in the game, based on absolutely nothing.

And I'm not even knocking marner's character. I like his attitude. I just think tkachuk has elite level character.

Lol @ thinking Tkachuk has better "character" than Marner, let alone that it would close the gap between them.

 

[jbeck5]

No, getting worse does not increase your chances. That fact does not change, regular season or playoffs.

That's really not true. There is no "playoff build" and "regular season build". You seem to be mistaking and misattributing what causes lesser teams to sometimes go on runs or beat better teams over small samples.

It literally is. You're suggesting he's a better option in the playoffs (despite never even making the playoffs) than one of the best players in the game, based on absolutely nothing.

Lol @ thinking Tkachuk has better "character" than Marner, let alone that it would close the gap between them.

Lol ok, so you haven't been watching hockey for years. Or else you would have seen countless examples of what I'm saying, example, Leafs beating the sens teams in the playoffs.

The sens were always regarded as more skilled but the Leafs more gritty.

You disregarding it shows there isn't much point discussing anything with you. You're just gonna ignore countless examples. It's as if youre against the idea of being wrong. You have to be right. No point in talking with people with that attitude.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

But like I said, our current core is not at that stage yet.

When Ottawa's last core was their turn to win in the playoffs, they won rounds. This is when Toronto was bottom of the league.

When Toronto's current core is their turn to win in the playoffs, they have yet to win a round. This is when Ottawa is at the bottom of the league.

You see how they're on opposite cycles?

Ottawa fans, which are there for all cores that come through, can absolutely talk smack about when it's their turn to win, they do win, and when it's the Leafs turn to win, they don't win.

Obviously we will see if that trend continues when Ottawas time to compete comes.

It's as if they're in a shootout and Ottawas shooter scored (their previous core) then Toronto's shooter (current core) went up and missed. Ottawas core is lining up and about to take their next shot. At this point, sens fans can be happy. It's only once they take their shot and miss that they can go "oh, now we're in the same boat as Toronto was" (missing their shot).

It’s funny to see the goal posts moved so quickly on timing of the Sens current core. Go read all of the off-season winner threads from the summer. A bunch of Sens fans were adamant they were on par with the Leafs, ahead of Boston, were a lock to make the playoffs, etc. What happened to that?

 

[Jaska]

There is absolutely no grit in Marner's game.

 

[DJB]

Let me know if you still have a team in 10 years.

Ooohh cuts deep bro

 

[jbeck5]

Okay I'm not having a conversation about a metaphorical shootout between Ottawa and Toronto going through their different competition phases lol.

I'm taking Marner here.

I had to use an analogy because you didn't understand how teams could be at different points in their cycles with different expectations.

The shoutout analogy perfectly illustrates different different teams having their turn.

 

[1specter]

It’s funny to see the goal posts moved so quickly on timing of the Sens current core. Go read all of the off-season winner threads from the summer. A bunch of Sens fans were adamant they were on par with the Leafs, ahead of Boston, were a lock to make the playoffs, etc. What happened to that?

Definitely one of the most insecure and hypocritical fanbases. I guess that's what being near bankruptcy and constantly at risk of losing your team does.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol ok, so you haven't been watching hockey for years. Or else you would have seen countless examples of what I'm saying, example, Leafs beating the sens teams in the playoffs.

I've been watching hockey for longer than you, kid.
There are examples of better teams losing to lesser teams over a small sample, but not for the reasons you seem to think.
And whatever reason you think, you certainly can't claim somebody who has never even played in the playoffs to be a difference maker for the playoffs anyway.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I had to use an analogy because you didn't understand how teams could be at different points in their cycles with different expectations.

The shoutout analogy perfectly illustrates different different teams having their turn.

Your GM has claimed a few teams to be ready for competing, only that has yet to happen. Like I said, Ottawa is a younger team, but your best players aren't as far in age compared to Toronto's as you are making it sound.

If you want to use your analogy:

Torono has been and will continue to shoot
Ottawa is trying to make it to the shootout

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

I had to use an analogy because you didn't understand how teams could be at different points in their cycles with different expectations.

The shoutout analogy perfectly illustrates different different teams having their turn.

Could you address the goal posts being moved on the timing? I read the Sens board in the off-season. They said they were a lock to make the playoffs. Your GM said the rebuild is over. How can you sit there and say your cycle is just starting?

 

[jbeck5]

It’s funny to see the goal posts moved so quickly on timing of the Sens current core. Go read all of the off-season winner threads from the summer. A bunch of Sens fans were adamant they were on par with the Leafs, ahead of Boston, were a lock to make the playoffs, etc. What happened to that?

Fans of teams always predict greener.

Where were neutral fans predicting the sens? (So exclude sens fans that will predict high, and rivals fans that will predict low)

Would you not agree "just missing the playoffs" was the most common prediction?

They're what, 6 points out? They're doing what is expected.

Your GM has claimed a few teams to be ready for competing, only that has yet to happen. Like I said, Ottawa is a younger team, but your best players aren't as far in age compared to Toronto's as you are making it sound.

If you want to use your analogy:

Torono has been and will continue to shoot
Ottawa is trying to make it to the shootout

They literally scored first in the shootout so that doesn't make any sense.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Fans of teams always predict greener.

Where were neutral fans predicting the sens? (So exclude sens fans that will predict high, and rivals fans that will predict low)

Would you not agree "just missing the playoffs" was the most common prediction?

They're what, 6 points out? They're doing what is expected.


They literally scored first in the shootout so that doesn't make any sense.

Right, so you just admitted the fanbase moved the goal posts. So again, how are they at the beginning of their cycle? Go and re read the off-season threads. Just missing the playoffs was not the most common prediction. It was that they were better than Boston and Toronto.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They literally scored first in the shootout so that doesn't make any sense.

If we're just going to randomly talk about decades ago for no apparent reason, the Leafs were scoring in this "shootout" before Ottawa even existed.

 

[jbeck5]

I've been watching hockey for longer than you, kid.
There are examples of better teams losing to lesser teams over a small sample, but not for the reasons you seem to think.
And whatever reason you think, you certainly can't claim somebody who has never even played in the playoffs to be a difference maker for the playoffs anyway.

I said could be a difference, not will.

I've seen countless teams who constantly rank at the top and don't go far in the playoffs, and I've also seen countless teams who always rank in the middle, yet are good to advance a round or two.

There are reasons for that. I'm trying to discuss those reasons. Often, grit is a reason. So is character. And I don't think it's absurd to say tkachuk has a lot more character and grit than marner. Sure, the loss of skill for the uptick in grit and character probably Leafs to less regular season points, but it's not absurd to think it might lead to a higher likeliness to win a playoff round...because we've seen countless examples over the years of teams that are less equipped to go for a season title but are locks to win a round...and then we see those teams that are always fighting for season titles and never make it anywhere in the playoffs.

Right, so you just admitted the fanbase moved the goal posts. So again, how are they at the beginning of their cycle? Go and re read the off-season threads. Just missing the playoffs was not the most common prediction. It was that they were better than Boston and Toronto.

What? When did I say that?

I said Homers are homers and haters are haters. What did the neutral fans say????

Just missing the playoffs???

Stop lying.