Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[Dekes For Days]

No. Go look at "nuanced" now.

There's nothing to be nuanced about. It's undeniably, straight up cherry picking, and a bad representation of what those players are expected to bring, by your own admission.

"Closing the gap offensively" doesn't mean 9 pts is "insignificant"

Okay, so you agree that there is a significant offensive gap between them? Because it's sure taken you a while to admit it.

Uh... very odd logic.

It's not odd logic at all. It's literally just logic. You don't get random bonus points for your attributes or play style. You get credit for what you do with it, that has meaningful impact for the team.

Have you re-opened the first post of this thread at least once? OP never talked about pace, yet you keep repeating.

OP creates the thread and posts their stats early in the season when their point pace creates a very misleading picture, and then tells everybody to ignore everything outside of this season.
I think you can see what the purpose here was, whether you choose to admit it or not.

It's obvious that the discussion only happens IF Tkachuk keeps up with Marner production this season... If it doesn't happen, then it's still Marner by a significant margin so this discussion wouldn't be needed. Is it that hard to understand?

Well Tkachuk didn't maintain that pace, and Marner increased his, and you're still here arguing against Marner being better, so it is a bit hard to understand what you're doing here.
You keep acknowledging that it's obviously Marner, and then arguing against anybody that says it's obviously Marner.

Highlighted is exactly what "closing the gap" means.

But there's still a significant gap, by your own admission, and he gets beat everywhere else. Until he's at least closed the gap, there's no discussion to even be had, so who cares if he's slightly narrowed it?

Pace is nice and everything but Marner never scored more than 97 pts.

There's been a pandemic, in case you hadn't noticed.
Your whole argument is literally based on pace that Tkachuk has maintained for far less time.
You were acting like it was crazy for Marner to hit a point total that he paced closed to just last season.
Either way, you don't need 30 point separation to have a significant offensive gap.

Again, your reading problems...

This is like the 5th time you've said this in one post, when the only one experiencing that is you.

I NEVER said what you think I have said. I am saying coaching plays a pretty big part though.

Literally every time the defensive difference gets pointed out, you go on and on about coaching and teams and arbitrarily giving credit to Tkachuk for random things.
Is it that hard to just admit that Marner is much better defensively?

Ok but I looked at Even Strength (which includes 5v5), what is the point of only look at 5v5 then?

Because 5v5 is a better representation of their actual defensive abilities, which is why that is what is always used. It's a consistent, equal game state, whereas ES has a lot of differing game states that fall under it and are experienced by teams and players in different amounts, which can skew the numbers - some of which don't even feature equal skaters like empty net situations.

And why is Marner PK being qualified as Elite?

Because it is elite. He's one of the best PKers in the league.

Yes Marner is still the better overall player but the AINEC you've been going on with is what is ridiculous.

Glad we can agree that Marner is the better player. It's obviously AINEC, but I don't really care how close you think it is.

Considering contracts, I think Dubas would pull the trigger on a 1 for 1 trade

Not a chance. Better players get paid more. That doesn't mean you trade them for worse players.

 

[Xspyrit]

There's nothing to be nuanced about. It's undeniably, straight up cherry picking, and a bad representation of what those players are expected to bring, by your own admission.

Okay, so you agree that there is a significant offensive gap between them? Because it's sure taken you a while to admit it.

It's not odd logic at all. It's literally just logic. You don't get random bonus points for your attributes or play style. You get credit for what you do with it, that has meaningful impact for the team.

OP creates the thread and posts their stats early in the season when their point pace creates a very misleading picture, and then tells everybody to ignore everything outside of this season.
I think you can see what the purpose here was, whether you choose to admit it or not.

Well Tkachuk didn't maintain that pace, and Marner increased his, and you're still here arguing against Marner being better, so it is a bit hard to understand what you're doing here.
You keep acknowledging that it's obviously Marner, and then arguing against anybody that says it's obviously Marner.

But there's still a significant gap, by your own admission, and he gets beat everywhere else. Until he's at least closed the gap, there's no discussion to even be had, so who cares if he's slightly narrowed it?

There's been a pandemic, in case you hadn't noticed.
Your whole argument is literally based on pace that Tkachuk has maintained for far less time.
You were acting like it was crazy for Marner to hit a point total that he paced closed to just last season.
Either way, you don't need 30 point separation to have a significant offensive gap.

This is like the 5th time you've said this in one post, when the only one experiencing that is you.

Literally every time the defensive difference gets pointed out, you go on and on about coaching and teams and arbitrarily giving credit to Tkachuk for random things.
Is it that hard to just admit that Marner is much better defensively?

Because 5v5 is a better representation of their actual defensive abilities, which is why that is what is always used. It's a consistent, equal game state, whereas ES has a lot of differing game states that fall under it and are experienced by teams and players in different amounts, which can skew the numbers - some of which don't even feature equal skaters like empty net situations.

Because it is elite. He's one of the best PKers in the league.

Glad we can agree that Marner is the better player. It's obviously AINEC, but I don't really care how close you think it is.

Not a chance. Better players get paid more. That doesn't mean you trade them for worse players.

I'll try to come back on this tomorrow but pretty busy these days. In the meantime, I posted a poll regarding the last point

 

[gritdash60]

40% brady huh? i very rarely admit it, but this is leafs hate. Marner is better than 3 brady tkachuks

 

[The Professional]

There's nothing to be nuanced about. It's undeniably, straight up cherry picking, and a bad representation of what those players are expected to bring, by your own admission.

Okay, so you agree that there is a significant offensive gap between them? Because it's sure taken you a while to admit it.

It's not odd logic at all. It's literally just logic. You don't get random bonus points for your attributes or play style. You get credit for what you do with it, that has meaningful impact for the team.

OP creates the thread and posts their stats early in the season when their point pace creates a very misleading picture, and then tells everybody to ignore everything outside of this season.
I think you can see what the purpose here was, whether you choose to admit it or not.

Well Tkachuk didn't maintain that pace, and Marner increased his, and you're still here arguing against Marner being better, so it is a bit hard to understand what you're doing here.
You keep acknowledging that it's obviously Marner, and then arguing against anybody that says it's obviously Marner.

But there's still a significant gap, by your own admission, and he gets beat everywhere else. Until he's at least closed the gap, there's no discussion to even be had, so who cares if he's slightly narrowed it?

There's been a pandemic, in case you hadn't noticed.
Your whole argument is literally based on pace that Tkachuk has maintained for far less time.
You were acting like it was crazy for Marner to hit a point total that he paced closed to just last season.
Either way, you don't need 30 point separation to have a significant offensive gap.

This is like the 5th time you've said this in one post, when the only one experiencing that is you.

Literally every time the defensive difference gets pointed out, you go on and on about coaching and teams and arbitrarily giving credit to Tkachuk for random things.
Is it that hard to just admit that Marner is much better defensively?

Because 5v5 is a better representation of their actual defensive abilities, which is why that is what is always used. It's a consistent, equal game state, whereas ES has a lot of differing game states that fall under it and are experienced by teams and players in different amounts, which can skew the numbers - some of which don't even feature equal skaters like empty net situations.

Because it is elite. He's one of the best PKers in the league.

Glad we can agree that Marner is the better player. It's obviously AINEC, but I don't really care how close you think it is.

Not a chance. Better players get paid more. That doesn't mean you trade them for worse players.

Lol. I posted this thread to create a discussion, to continue on a thread from last year that I couldn't find. I'm sorry if even suggesting a comparison between his holiness Marner and Tkachuk is insulting to you or something. Last I checked, this is Hf, and the purpose of this message board is to discuss hockey. Settle down nerd.

 

[NyQuil]

40% brady huh? i very rarely admit it, but this is leafs hate. Marner is better than 3 brady tkachuks

Brady looked pretty good tonight.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Who

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Brady was better tonight so Brady

 

[bert]

Lol. I posted this thread to create a discussion, to continue on a thread from last year that I couldn't find. I'm sorry if even suggesting that a comparison between his holiness Marner and Tkachuk is insulting to you or something. Last i checked, this is Hf, and the purpose of this message board is to discuss hockey. Settle down nerd.

Hahaha!

How about that novel.

 

[swiftwin]

With Matthews out, the pressure was on Marner to step up tonight. No surprise, he choked again. Meanwhile, Brady had two goals and was first star of the game.

 

[bert]

With Matthews out, the pressure was on Marner to step up tonight. No surprise, he choked again. Meanwhile, Brady had two goals and was first star of the game.

His first goal must have been such a foreign concept to these new eaf fans. Hammering their defensive specialist creating a turnover then going to the net to tip in a goal. A playoff style goal. The type of goal #7 in Blue and White would have scored when they had teams capable of winning in the playoffs. I'd be willing to guess most leaf fans in this thread probably didn't follow those Toronto teams. The ones saying his play style isn't conducive to success in the playoffs. That he 'doesn't bring anything extra'. That's its just 'entertainment'. What I found entertaining was the way the leafs D folded when they saw #7 coming. Or the way they backed in when Stutzle came with speed.

Brady Tkachuk is exactly what Toronto is missing. Which is ironic considering the content in this thread.

 

[Atomos2]

His first goal must have been such a foreign concept to these new eaf fans. Hammering their defensive specialist creating a turnover then going to the net to tip in a goal. A playoff style goal. The type of goal #7 in Blue and White would have scored when they had teams capable of winning in the playoffs. I'd be willing to guess most leaf fans in this thread probably didn't follow those Toronto teams. The ones saying his play style isn't conducive to success in the playoffs. That he 'doesn't bring anything extra'. That's its just 'entertainment'. What I found entertaining was the way the leafs D folded when they saw #7 coming. Or the way they backed in when Stutzle came with speed.

Brady Tkachuk is exactly what Toronto is missing. Which is ironic considering the content in this thread.

What's with the Stutzle comment? As if Marner doesn't make defenders look silly all the time? Very cute opportunistic post tho, well in line with the creation of this poll. Reminds me of back in junior when Jeremy Bracco would always outshine Marner head to head when Kitchener faced London in the regular season.

Emotions aside, the only reason the Leafs would like Tkachuk is because they already have Marner. We can hope Knies helps in that department in the future. But replace Marner with Tkachuk and the leafs lose their leading scorer/consistent 90+ point player, top pker and best defensive winger. You find someone who can replace all that and then we can take it seriously. Til then, congrats on the one game victory. If only Ottawa could be rewarded more than two points for it.

 

[Rals]

What's with the Stutzle comment? As if Marner doesn't make defenders look silly all the time? Very cute opportunistic post tho, well in line with the creation of this poll. Reminds me of back in junior when Jeremy Bracco would always outshine Marner head to head when Kitchener faced London in the regular season.

Emotions aside, the only reason the Leafs would like Tkachuk is because they already have Marner. We can hope Knies helps in that department in the future. But replace Marner with Tkachuk and the leafs lose their leading scorer/consistent 90+ point player, top pker and best defensive winger. You find someone who can replace all that and then we can take it seriously. Til then, congrats on the one game victory. If only Ottawa could be rewarded more than two points for it.

You'd be replacing him with an 80 point power forward..

 

[bert]

You'd be replacing him with an 80 point power forward..

Plus Nylander can do everything marner does offensively. Not hard to replace the PK. Players like Tkachuk are few and far between. Not sure if that previous poster was serious but did he compare Bracco to Tkachuk or Stutzle... If so. Yikes.

 

[Atomos2]

You'd be replacing him with an 80 point power forward..

An 80 point power forward who has never hit 70 points, is much worse defensively and can't pk?

Sign me up! I'd love to create more holes in the lineup and be more like Ottawa.

 

[The Professional]

An 80 point power forward who has never hit 70 points, is much worse defensively and can't pk?

Sign me up! I'd love to create more holes in the lineup and be more like Ottawa.

He had 67 in 79 last year and currently has 49 in 49 this year. You really think he's not gonna hit 80 this year or in the future?

Brady has taken a bit more time to breakout offensively than Marner. But he's a ppg powerfoward now. He's only 23 and will get better.

 

[Atomos2]

He had 67 in 79 last year and currently has 49 in 49 this year. You really think he's not gonna hit 80 this year or in the future?

Brady has taken a bit more time to breakout offensively than Marner. But he's a ppg powerfoward now. He's only 23 and will get better.

It's the same reason I called Marner a 90+ point forward instead of 100-110+. Marner had 97 pts in 72 games last year. If I call Brady ppg, than Marner is a 100-110+ point player. Regardless, it doesn't change the offensive, defensive and pk advantage he has and he's getting better too.

 

[Pyrophorus]

With Matthews out, the pressure was on Marner to step up tonight. No surprise, he choked again. Meanwhile, Brady had two goals and was first star of the game.

Why did he not choke against the Caps?

Leafs don't play against bottom feeders.

 

[bert]

Why did he not choke against the Caps?

Leafs don't play against bottom feeders.

Or playoff teams when it matters most? Who do they beat then?

 

[NyQuil]

Leafs don't play against bottom feeders.

They certainly didn't on Friday.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Or playoff teams when it matters most? Who do they beat then?

Always take 3 games.

 

[Atomos2]

Plus Nylander can do everything marner does offensively. Not hard to replace the PK. Players like Tkachuk are few and far between. Not sure if that previous poster was serious but did he compare Bracco to Tkachuk or Stutzle... If so. Yikes.

So aside from losing offense and defense, the Leafs now have to also go out and find another top pker. You’re really making it impossible for the Leafs to say no aren’t ya

Or playoff teams when it matters most? Who do they beat then?

Playoff comments in B.Tkachuk threads need to be redirected to the 2024-2025 season thanks.

 

[NyQuil]

So aside from losing offense and defense, the Leafs now have to also go out and find another top pker. You’re really making it impossible for the Leafs to say no aren’t ya

Ottawa is a terrible team and yet has a better powerplay and a better penalty kill than Toronto does.

It can't be that hard to find personnel to replace what Marner is providing in that area.

In any event, Marner is a great player, there's no doubt about it. The points and skill level speak for themselves.

But I don't think you can be so cavalier about what Tkachuk provides that Toronto glaringly lacks, but keep mocking the guy if it makes you feel better.

Again, there's nothing intangible or mysterious about it. It is extremely tangible in a physically dominating way.

We saw first-hand last weekend as Brady pretty much had the run of the offensive zone and no one could stop him.

 

[bert]

So aside from losing offense and defense, the Leafs now have to also go out and find another top pker. You’re really making it impossible for the Leafs to say no aren’t ya

Playoff comments in B.Tkachuk threads need to be redirected to the 2024-2025 season thanks.

Did you watch the game on Friday you know when he smoked a guy, created a turnover then went to the net and scored. Or did you completely black out when that happened? Or when the leafs D were turning pucks over when they saw him coming. If you think he isnt bringing something the leafs dont have then you are blind. Go sign Tyler Motte to fill the PK role he can be had for 1.4 million per year. Him and Tkachuk still make way less than Marner.

Always take 3 games.

0 playoff wins in coming up on 20 years and this is what you come back with?

 

[Atomos2]

Did you watch the game on Friday you know when he smoked a guy, created a turnover then went to the net and scored. Or did you completely black out when that happened? Or when the leafs D were turning pucks over when they saw him coming. If you think he isnt bringing something the leafs dont have then you are blind. Go sign Tyler Motte to fill the PK role he can be had for 1.4 million per year. Him and Tkachuk still make way less than Marner.


0 playoff wins in coming up on 20 years and this is what you come back with?

And yet I’d easily take Marner over both of them combined. I don’t focus on specific instances in blowout games. It’s already well documented that the Leafs play down to their competition. Only Ottawa and Arizona have scored 6 or more goals vs the Leafs this season and it isn’t because they are the best teams in the league.

The Washington game where Marner basically broke Kuznetsov’s ankles on the Bunting goal is more indicative of their performance imo considering what the leafs have been doing this season.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I’m taking Brady in a one on one.