Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[LeafsNation75]

Id be concerned if Ottawa isn't getting into playoff territory as early as next or the following season. alot of their core is signed long term.
They should have been challenging for a spot this year or at the very least a wild card position.

This season will be the 5th straight year Ottawa will be missing the playoffs since Tkachuk become a full time NHL player.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Agreed. They've had some bad luck and adversity but that's not an excuse.

not saying it is anyways. Ottawa along with alot of other teams have made their mistakes. imo moving the 7th overall for Cat wasn't a great idea. seemed like a good one at the time but imo it hasnt been worth it. if he walks as a FA it was a huge failure from management thinking they were further ahead then they were.
he needs to re-sign

it's just not always greener on the other side. everyone shits on Leafs for their playoff woes but every team have their issues. well most teams.

in the end I dunno why everyone is always trying to make each other feel shitty about their teams. or comparing another teams misery to theirs and if it's not as bad it's bonus. since when has the bar lowered where it's acceptable to be shit but fine as long as it doesnt go on as long as the Leafs.

Im telling you..... you dont want this. to be let down year after year. get so close to winning and still lose. it takes years off ur life lol

 

[MCR74]

Unlike Marner.

You're right. Brady is a no show right now, no need to wait for the playoffs,

 

[Notsince67]

It has nothing to do with size.

Marchand is shorter and lighter than Marner. Nobody would ever question his compete or desire to show up for his teammates.

Nobody would ever be left wondering if Marchand took the long way to a loose puck to avoid a hit.

Marner takes a long way to a loose puck? WTF are you talking about? He tied for first in the league for takeaways. When he doesn't have the puck on his stick, he is getting it from the other team. Do you watch any games because you sure talk a good game about things you seem to know little about.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner takes a long way to a loose puck? WTF are you talking about? He tied for first in the league for takeaways. When he doesn't have the puck on his stick, he is getting it from the other team. Do you watch any games because you sure talk a good game about things you seem to know little about.

I just looked up the takeaway leaders and Marner currently has 56 of them. He's also tied for 1st in that category with Jaccob Slavin and Brandon Hagel.

2022-2023 NHL Takeaway Leaders | StatMuse

Mitchell Marner got the most takeaways in 2022-23, with 104 taken.

www.statmuse.com

 

[Silky Johnson]

When Ottawa was in the 2017 Eastern Conference Finals, they had not even drafted Tkachuk at that time, that happened 1 year later in the 2018.

The fact they were that close to a Stanley Cup Final and became a joke of a franchise in such a short order is not something I want to brag about.

Actually it's fine. For most teams it's about cycles of contending and rebuilding. It's just the leafs that stay in a stasis of suck.

yeah but we still pay for your poverty franchise

Thanks! It's much appreciated

 

[LeafsNation75]

Actually it's fine. For most teams it's about cycles of contending and rebuilding. It's just the leafs that stay in a stasis of suck.

In the 2017-18 season just 1 year after getting to Game 7 and double overtime of the Eastern Conference Finals, Ottawa finished 30th overall which at the time was second last ahead of Buffalo.

In the 2018-19 season Ottawa finished 31st overall which at the time was last place overall. They also didn't have their 2019 1st round pick due to the Matt Duchene trade, and ended up giving Colorado the 4th pick which they used to select Bowen Byram. They were lucky it wasn't 1st overall and Jack Hughes.

That's a lot worse compared to any bad years the Leafs have had.

 

[Silky Johnson]

In the 2017-18 season just 1 year after getting to Game 7 and double overtime of the Eastern Conference Finals, Ottawa finished 30th overall which at the time was second last ahead of Buffalo.

In the 2018-19 season Ottawa finished 31st overall which at the time was last place overall. They also didn't have their 2019 1st round pick due to the Matt Duchene trade, and ended up giving Colorado the 4th pick which they used to select Bowen Byram. They were lucky it wasn't 1st overall and Jack Hughes.

That's a lot worse compared to any bad years the Leafs have had.

See my previous post describing ottawa nuking themselves. It sucked. Adds a year to the rebuild. But then again having San Jose's first turn into Stuetzle was pretty cool. Swings and roundabouts.

The leafs have had Harold Ballard and 56 years of incompetence on the highest budget (coaching, scouting and management in cap era). You might win the saddest franchise in sports, let alone the NHL.

 

[Atomos2]

Yeah, the Sens were a OT goal away from the final in 2017. Then they went into a full rebuild with no expectations of playoffs until this or next season.

When were the leafs last that successful? 1993?

All teams go through cycles. But not being able to win a playoff series with your best roster in 3 decades is...a special type of sad.

All NHL fans have the moral authority to criticise the leafs.

Jesus. The hypocritical nature of this post. Must be nice to time travel back to 2017 when the Sens didn't have Tkachuk holding them back.

It's been 7 seasons in the Matthews/Marner era. How many seasons did it take for Mackinnon to win a cup? How many did it take with Ovechkin? Stamkos?
B.Tkachuk is in his 5th season and can't even make the damn playoffs. But let's give him a pass because they're "rebuilding"

So hypocritical.

But sure, let's pile on the Leafs because they ran into back to back Stanley cup finalists in the first round and HF has decided they have peaked and will never learn from their losses. Those losers that aren't bad enough to miss the playoffs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Jesus. The hypocritical nature of this post. Must be nice to time travel back to 2017 when the Sens didn't have Tkachuk holding them back.

It's been 7 seasons in the Matthews/Marner era. How many seasons did it take for Mackinnon to win a cup? How many did it take with Ovechkin? Stamkos?
B.Tkachuk is in his 5th season and can't even make the damn playoffs. But let's give him a pass because they're "rebuilding"

So hypocritical.

But sure, let's pile on the Leafs because they ran into back to back Stanley cup finalists in the first round and HF has decided they have peaked and will never learn from their losses. Those losers that aren't bad enough to miss the playoffs.

You should know by now that on HF there are different rules and circumstances the Leafs are given, whereas other teams will always be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[NyQuil]

But sure, let's pile on the Leafs because they ran into back to back Stanley cup finalists in the first round and HF has decided they have peaked and will never learn from their losses.

They also ran into Columbus and Montreal.

No one cared when they lost in 6 to Washington.

It’s what has happened since that raises eyebrows.

 

[LeafsNation75]

They also ran into Columbus and Montreal.

No one cared when they lost in 6 to Washington.

It’s what has happened since that raises eyebrows.

Yes, the Leafs lost to Columbus and Montreal, which were two series they should have won.

However, they only played Columbus due to the point percentages when they figured out which teams played each other during the qualifying series for in the bubble. The series against Montreal only happened because of the 56 game divisional schedule.

In a normal 82 game season like last year, chances are they don't play either team in the playoffs.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If they miss the playoffs eight years in a row and then lose in the first round six years in a row then I’ll be concerned.

Optimistic to assume you’d survive 8 years with no playoff revenue.

 

[Bileur]

Marner takes a long way to a loose puck? WTF are you talking about? He tied for first in the league for takeaways. When he doesn't have the puck on his stick, he is getting it from the other team. Do you watch any games because you sure talk a good game about things you seem to know little about.

I’m talking about 7 against the Habs, down one goal



You were probably watching highlight reels of the regular season and missed that.

I’ve watched plenty of his playoff games. He is usually less and less visible as the series goes on.

 

[NyQuil]

Optimistic to assume you’d survive 8 years with no playoff revenue.

I guess you can call it motivational then.

I suppose it could be worse if the team has no real incentive to win.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's always fun when threads involving the comparison of two players turns into random comparisons of teams or fanbases.

 

[Xspyrit]

Marner has had a season of 94 points in 82 games in 2018-19.

Last season he had 97 points in 72 games.

Brady's career best so far is 67 points in 79 games during last season.

So Marner has already proven to also be the better offensive player.

You're not following...

Everything you said here is totally irrelevant, it's been discussed/explained several times

Pacing for 14 points more is not insignificant, especially when the gap is likely to only get wider as the season progresses.

Yeah but look when the thread was made or even when the actual conversation started, it was much closer. The Sens have very good talent but incredibly poor depth and coaching, the team is a mess as a whole (my avatar --> DJ Dorion). This things happen when you play on a bad team, Suzuki has 2 goals 9 pts in his last 21 games for example

Because it was a transparent attempt to try and equate a lesser player to a better player by first cherry picking a small sample where one was unsustainably producing above their normal and one was unsustainably producing below their normal, and then ignoring the superiority Marner has in other areas.

I don't see things like that. What is wrong with making that kind of thread? Tkachuk has closed most of the gap in offense and if he closes the gap defensively next year (with new management/coaching), then what will you say?

And when has Tkachuk "unsustainably produced above his normal"??? This is his production by each month this season :

11 pts in 8 GP, 14 pts in 14 GP, 13 pts in 14 GP, 9 pts in 10 GP

Maybe reality is not what you think it is.

But it is AINEC. Offense may be getting closer, but it's still not that close. Defense is not close, and you can't just eliminate that by arbitrarily claiming that Tkachuk would be awesome if X, Y, and Z. And the only "other element" that has a significant, tangible benefit is Marner's elite PKing.

There's if and X, Y, and Z elements. Just ONE : switch teams and you would see very different results. Anyway, you'll see next year I guess (I'm assuming the Senators will be sold before that)

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah but look when the thread was made or even when the actual conversation started, it was much closer.

Yes, that's the point. A small production sample that's not very representative of these players was cherry picked to make them seem closer than they were.

Tkachuk has closed most of the gap in offense and if he closes the gap defensively next year (with new management/coaching), then what will you say?

He has not closed most of the offensive gap.
If he closes the offensive gap, there is still the defensive gap.
If he closes the offensive and defensive gap, there is still Marner's elite PKing separating them.
If he closes the offensive and defensive gap and suddenly become a top-tier PKer, then maybe we have the makings of an actual comparison.

And when has Tkachuk "unsustainably produced above his normal"???

When he was on a 100 point pace when this thread was made.

There's if and X, Y, and Z elements. Just ONE : switch teams and you would see very different results.

The difference between these players is a lot more than just... "switch teams". That seems to be your excuse to arbitrarily ignore all of the ways in which Marner is better.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You're not following...

Everything you said here is totally irrelevant, it's been discussed/explained several times

So, it's irrelevant that Marner has already proven to be a better offensive player? If it was the opposite and Tkachuk had better regular season numbers, I'm sure you wouldn't be saying it was irrelevant.

 

[Atomos2]

You're not following...

Everything you said here is totally irrelevant, it's been discussed/explained several times

Yea all of Marner's regular season history is irrelevant yet all Marner's playoff history is totally relevant (well...only the playoff series he was bad in are relevant).

What a double standard...the funniest part about double standards is you repeatedly trip over your own logic.

Which is it? History doesn't count or history does count. Make a decision.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yea all of Marner's regular season history is irrelevant yet all Marner's playoff history is totally relevant (well...only the playoff series he was bad in are relevant).

What a double standard...the funniest part about double standards is you repeatedly trip over your own logic.

Which is it? History doesn't count or history does count. Make a decision.

The only playoff series where you can say Marner wasn't good was against Columbus in 2020 and Montreal in 2021. Besides Leafs fans who said that, right after he scored in Game 1 against Tampa in 2022, the first thing Chris Cuthbert said was how his playoff goal drought was over.

So, when non Leafs fans like to bring that up it's not like we didn't know about that already.

With that being said it doesn't take away how much a better overall player he is compared to Tkachuk.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Jesus. The hypocritical nature of this post. Must be nice to time travel back to 2017 when the Sens didn't have Tkachuk holding them back.

It's been 7 seasons in the Matthews/Marner era. How many seasons did it take for Mackinnon to win a cup? How many did it take with Ovechkin? Stamkos?
B.Tkachuk is in his 5th season and can't even make the damn playoffs. But let's give him a pass because they're "rebuilding"

So hypocritical.

But sure, let's pile on the Leafs because they ran into back to back Stanley cup finalists in the first round and HF has decided they have peaked and will never learn from their losses. Those losers that aren't bad enough to miss the playoffs.

I don't think you understand what the word hypocritical means...but anyways.

Tkachuk gets a pass for now because the Sens are in a full ground up rebuild... It doesn't matter about his personal development its about the rest of the team. There has been no expectations for success because of where the TEAM is in the rebuild. If they don't do well by next year - then he starts taking shit.

Marner & Matthews take shit because they have been in a win now scenario for a while and cannot get it done. Their window is waining and if they don't win a series soon it will get torn down & their reputations will further tarnish.

My comment about 2017 had nothing to do with Marner or Tkachuk but was rather a response to an ignorant Leaf fans comment about quality of organisations.

I understand being a Leaf fan requires a bit of self delusion but let's try and keep up.

 

[wetcoast]

I love Brady but this is easily Marner if one is comparing players.

 

[bert]

See my previous post describing ottawa nuking themselves. It sucked. Adds a year to the rebuild. But then again having San Jose's first turn into Stuetzle was pretty cool. Slings and roundabouts.

The leafs have had Harold Ballard and 56 years of incompetence on the highest budget (coaching, scouting and management in cap era). You might win the saddest franchise in sports, let alone the NHL.

Its unparallel futility for a team that seemingly has every single advantage. Its truly incredible how bad they have been while being the most wealthy team in the league.

Three things about the Leafs organization and fanbase stick out to me most.

1. They have never won 3 consecutive playoff series in a row in one season. Forget about the cup drought since the league had more than 6 teams. They've never been to a Stanley Cup Final.

2. This streak of not having won a playoff series that is approaching 20 years. Truly incredible.

3. The overall arrogance of the fan base given 1 and 2. Where does this come from? The audacity should be a study in human nature and behavior. Where is this need to put down fans of other teams all the time? Is it built in insecurities? Perhaps if unrealistic expectations and pressure werent put on players like Marner he would perform better in the playoffs. I am not sure but I think the fan base/media is a big part of the problem and might be part of the answer for 1 and 2.

As a sens fan its quite clear why they have struggled. Its not hard to look at the situation objectively. They had the worst owner in the league who hired the least expensive options while being volatile and meddling with management. Resulting in a skeleton staff with people that weren't qualified for their jobs. Meanwhile tearing it down the studs. The teams big draft was 2020, thats what the rebuild is built on. Until those players start to seriously mature the rebuild is still in full effect.

The hilarious comments saying stuff like 'Brady is the reason the sens arent in the playoffs'. When its obvious the team is still in its rebuild and still has the unqualified people running the organization and team. He is performing very well given the pressure his age etc. He shows up for his teammates drops the gloves, finishes his checks and scores goals while leading the team in scoring. Any team wants a player like this.

Seems like most of the fans that are unable to identify with Tkachuks skillset and how that has traditionally translated to post season success likely havent followed the leafs for very long. The last time the Leafs were successful they were built on a physical brand of hockey that scored dirty goals and was hard to play against.

 

[bert]

The only playoff series where you can say Marner wasn't good was against Columbus in 2020 and Montreal in 2021. Besides Leafs fans who said that, right after he scored in Game 1 against Tampa in 2022, the first thing Chris Cuthbert said was how his playoff goal drought was over.

So, when non Leafs fans like to bring that up it's not like we didn't know about that already.

With that being said it doesn't take away how much a better overall player he is compared to Tkachuk.

Only is singular.