Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[34]

Goaltending is the MAJOR hole/problem with this team. It is absolutely putrid. Both Sam and Woll are f***ing terrible. There is no way the Leafs should have lost to the Hawks today. House league caliber Goaltending, embarrassing.

Tre needs to f*** off with trying to trade for the garbage 3rd pairing D men in Calgary and focus on getting a goalie who can actually stop the puck. At this point call up Martin Jones and give him a shot.

 

[Drytoast]

Sure would be nice if those team had money to afford a real goalie today.


But hey! We will just give Willy whatever the hell he wants and that will be that.

 

[Menzinger]

Sure would be nice if those team had money to afford a real goalie today.


But hey! We will just give Willy whatever the hell he wants and that will be that.

The team is sitting with capspace now, and in the coming offseason.

The issue isn't Nylander, it's you can't make a starting goalie appear out of thin air

 

[Drytoast]

The team is sitting with capspace now, and in the coming offseason.

The issue isn't Nylander, it's you can't make a starting goalie appear out of thin air

Wouldn't matter anyways. We can't afford to pay a starting goalie if one appeared.

Or a competent defense pairing.

But regardless. It may take some doing but eventually even Toronto Maple Leaf fans, as thick head as they may be...will figure out a commonality between the cap structures of those who win versus those who don't.

 

[Menzinger]

Wouldn't matter anyways. We can't afford to pay a starting goalie if one appeared.

Or a competent defense pairing.

But regardless. It may take some doing but eventually even Toronto Maple Leaf fans, as thick head as they may be...will figure out a commonality between the cap structures of those who win versus those who don't.

Last few cup winners have done so with cheap goalies.

3-5 mil seems to be the sweet spot for teams. And the Leafs can afford that next offseason

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Last few cup winners have done so with cheap goalies.

3-5 mil seems to be the sweet spot for teams. And the Leafs can afford that next offseason

The last few cup winners have been Tampa, Talking, Colorado who beat Tampa and Vegas who had Hill.

What are You talking about?

Vasy and Kuempeur aren't cheap.

Beyond That You have Binner, Holtby Murray/Fluery twice, Crawford, Quick, Crawford Quick, Thomas

Again what are You talking about?

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Should we edit the title and put great in quotations.

 

[Menzinger]

The last few cup winners have been Tampa, Talking, Colorado who beat Tampa and Vegas who had Hill.

What are You talking about?

Vasy and Kuempeur aren't cheap.

Beyond That You have Binner, Holtby Murray/Fluery twice, Crawford, Quick, Crawford Quick, Thomas

Again what are You talking about?

Have you actually looked at the caphits when they won the cup?

Hill had a caphit of 2.1 mil; Kuempeur 4.5 mil; Vasy had two caphits.9.5 mil and 3.5 mil; Bennington 650k; quick two caphit 1.8 mil and 5.8 mil; flurry had a 5 mil caphit, Crawford 2.6 mil and 6 mil

4/5 of the last goalies to win a cup had a caphit under 5 mil....

 

[Drytoast]

Last few cup winners have done so with cheap goalies.

3-5 mil seems to be the sweet spot for teams. And the Leafs can afford that next offseason

What about top 4 defense? Or your third line?

 

[Bomber0104]

Have you actually looked at the caphits when they won the cup?

Hill had a caphit of 2.1 mil; Kuempeur 4.5 mil; Vasy had two caphits.9.5 mil and 3.5 mil; Bennington 650k; quick two caphit 1.8 mil and 5.8 mil; flurry had a 5 mil caphit, Crawford 2.6 mil and 6 mil

4/5 of the last goalies to win a cup had a caphit under 5 mil....

This post conveniently stopped just short of listing Braden Holtby who held a $6.1M cap hit when the Caps won the Cup in 2018 (upper cap limit of $75 million that year), and entirely ignores cap hit as a percentage of salary cap...

No matter, the far more statistically significant variable with goaltending and Cup success is the method of player acquisition:

Hill - trade (4th round pick)
Kuemper - trade (1st round pick, conditional 3rd, Timmins)
Vasy - drafted/developed
Binnington - drafted/developed
Holtby - drafted/developed
Quick - drafted/developed
Fleury - drafted/developed
Murray - drafted/developed
Crawford - drafted/developed
Niemi - undrafted FA

When we're looking at Cup winners it seems having a great drafted and developed goaltender has really been the key all this time, mostly before they hit the big post-Cup payday.

Drafting, developing, and singing your own players in-house usually has big benefits from a cost-performance standpoint and goaltending is certainly no exception here.

 

[thusk]

This post conveniently stopped just short of listing Braden Holtby who held a $6.1M cap hit when the Caps won the Cup in 2018 (upper cap limit of $75 million that year), and entirely ignores cap hit as a percentage of salary cap...

No matter, the far more statistically significant variable with goaltending and Cup success is the method of player acquisition:

Hill - trade (4th round pick)
Kuemper - trade (1st round pick, conditional 3rd, Timmins)
Vasy - drafted/developed
Binnington - drafted/developed
Holtby - drafted/developed
Quick - drafted/developed
Fleury - drafted/developed
Murray - drafted/developed
Crawford - drafted/developed
Niemi - undrafted FA

When we're looking at Cup winners it seems having a great drafted and developed goaltender has really been the key all this time, mostly before they hit the big post-Cup payday.

Drafting, developing, and singing your own players in-house usually has big benefits from a cost-performance standpoint and goaltending is certainly no exception here.

exactly when team find a way to develop an elite goalie, they do everything they can to keep him.

hellebuyck, price, lundqvist, rask, quick, rinne, holtby, crawford, fleury, luongo... of my top 10 best goalie of last decade, 80% of them played basically their entire carreer in the same team.

and fleury was result of expansion draft + young promissing goalie just step up in Murray, before injuries broke his carreer fleury still still playing in pittsburgh until 33

 

[cyris]

Goaltending is the MAJOR hole/problem with this team. It is absolutely putrid. Both Sam and Woll are f***ing terrible. There is no way the Leafs should have lost to the Hawks today. House league caliber Goaltending, embarrassing.

Tre needs to f*** off with trying to trade for the garbage 3rd pairing D men in Calgary and focus on getting a goalie who can actually stop the puck. At this point call up Martin Jones and give him a shot.

Martin Jones has worse numbers in the AHL than Samsonov has in the NHL this season.

You might say he can’t be worse than what we have gotten from Sammy this season but yeah he can. A random goalie off waivers would be better than Jones.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm starting to get in line with your thinking. Dubas took over at really poor time, not his fault. What was he expected to do with a young core of: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly all in place and years from UFA status. Dubas was dealt a bad hand by not having a couple of 4th line players available on ELCs......what a tough position for a new GM to step into.

With a core of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly, he added onto that core, built around them well with complimentary players, and built a consistently top tier team year after year through one of the most difficult league situations a GM could face and very little internal backup.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. You came in here with a whole tirade against Dubas, and how he screwed over our whole future by trading some picks in situations where any GM would and has done the same, even though we currently have multiple Dubas-drafted prospects playing top-9 roles on the NHL team on their ELCs, multiple others providing depth roles, and a healthy pool with multiple well-performing and promising prospects for the future.

Then, it's shown that Dubas is actually the one who had to deal with a barren prospect pool, and through a pandemic-induced stagnant cap no less, and suddenly prospect pools are only good for providing "a couple of 4th line players"? I guess Dubas should have just traded all of his picks and the top prospects too, since we still have Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and RIelly, and that apparently means that Treliving shouldn't need any further internal help,

 

[Niagara Bill]

So now we know that Klingberg has been injured for a number of years and likely gone to Robidas Island, does this make Treliving look even dumber to waste 4M on a guy who would never succeed, couldn't he spend that money on at least a guy who was healthy?, or not spend it at all and give us 2 or 3 M in flexibility?

 

[hotpaws]

So now we know that Klingberg has been injured for a number of years and likely gone to Robidas Island, does this make Treliving look even dumber to waste 4M on a guy who would never succeed, couldn't he spend that money on at least a guy who was healthy?, or not spend it at all and give us 2 or 3 M in flexibility?

with him out we now have 4m in cap flexibility , so what's your problem now ?

 

[Niagara Bill]

with him out we now have 4m in cap flexibility , so what's your problem now ?

Not a problem, and by the way the 4m is not permanent, he can still comeback.
Point is, was it a waste of time and money. Couldn't any rookie gm seen this. As soon as he spent the 4m we stopped looking for free agent help. If we had just kept the 4m open the possibilities would have been greater to find help. I think signing Klingberg was a total disaster in everyway and looks like Treliving was so desperate he handicapped us.
Ps you dont have 4m, it is 4m less league min for his replacement

 

[ToneDog]

Not a problem, and by the way the 4m is not permanent, he can still comeback.
Point is, was it a waste of time and money. Couldn't any rookie gm seen this. As soon as he spent the 4m we stopped looking for free agent help. If we had just kept the 4m open the possibilities would have been greater to find help. I think signing Klingberg was a total disaster in everyway and looks like Treliving was so desperate he handicapped us.
Ps you dont have 4m, it is 4m less league min for his replacement

100%. No excuses for Brad. What puzzles me is that he said he wanted to add more toughness to the D and then signs one of the softest dmen in the league.

Now he has to move assets to acquire a better RHD. I think it will be Tanev because he shoots right and God help Tre if Tanev breaks.

 

[Nineteen67]

He tried to add some secondary scoring in Bertuzzi and Domi. Toughness in Reaves and mobility at the back end with Klingberg. These were all obvious needs going into the off-season.
It was unrealistic to think he was going to start by making larger type trades, instead he opted for short term additions (like deadline deals but only for money and not capital). This gives him time to evaluate the roster for himself. It remains to be seen if he can do it properly.

This is an evaluation year as they await cap relief, but I just don’t feel confident Treliving will spend the money wisely.

 

[Evilhomer]

100%. No excuses for Brad. What puzzles me is that he said he wanted to add more toughness to the D and then signs one of the softest dmen in the league.

Now he has to move assets to acquire a better RHD. I think it will be Tanev because he shoots right and God help Tre if Tanev breaks.

I can't imagine that Calgary is in any rush to give up on the season yet. They are only two points out of a wild card spot. They may eventually fall too far back, but I would think any trade of Tanev would only happen closer to the trade deadline.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Said it before and will say it again goaltending is a BIG issue for this team.

If You want proof of what I'm talking about and have been talking about all season go watch the first 2 goals against.

A real goaltender doesn't let either of those in.

Samsonov does consistently and that's my issue with him and always has been.

Woll's starting to let in softies too, although not quite as bad yet.

If you understand that goaltending is a BIG issue, that makes even harder to understand why you keep making these overoptimistic prognostications.

It is going to look even sillier in 20 games when the Leafs will probably be something like 25-8-4.

When you were told that this would require going15-3-2 in the next 20 games and a soft schedule doesn't necessarily mean we win those games, this was your response.

yes, I know that Toronto has already lost to some of those teams, but that makes it even more likely that they will not lose again to them

I told you that it doesn't work that way, and now we begin this epic "run" by losing to Chicago, who we already lost to earlier, one of the worst teams in the league who was also decimated by injuries. Is the light beginning to dawn?

If it's only now that you've realized how big an issue the goaltending is, are you ready to retract your prognosis for us being something like 25-8-4 or are you still confident, despite your previous predictions not working out?

 

[colchar]

Goaltending is the MAJOR hole/problem with this team. It is absolutely putrid. Both Sam and Woll are f***ing terrible. There is no way the Leafs should have lost to the Hawks today. House league caliber Goaltending, embarrassing.

Almost as embarrassing as your spelling skills.

Tre needs to f*** off with trying to trade for the garbage 3rd pairing D men in Calgary and focus on getting a goalie who can actually stop the puck. At this point call up Martin Jones and give him a shot.

You might want to go take a look at Jones' stats with the Marlies before making comments like that.

 

[hotpaws]

Not a problem, and by the way the 4m is not permanent, he can still comeback.
Point is, was it a waste of time and money. Couldn't any rookie gm seen this. As soon as he spent the 4m we stopped looking for free agent help. If we had just kept the 4m open the possibilities would have been greater to find help. I think signing Klingberg was a total disaster in everyway and looks like Treliving was so desperate he handicapped us.
Ps you dont have 4m, it is 4m less league min for his replacement

The team needed toughness and puck movers on the D core , there wasn't a D that combined those skills in the off season so he took a swing on Berg and missed , good thing it was only for 1 yr .

I like the total disaster comment coming from the Dubas supporters who cheered him on while he had to pay to continually fix his mistakes . I guess your so used to a GM who gave his mistakes term it upsets you Tre doesn't have to pay to get rid off this mistake . lol .

and we only have to deduct a league min salary if we don't spend the cap on a D

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you understand that goaltending is a BIG issue, that makes even harder to understand why you keep making these overoptimistic prognostications.

It is going to look even sillier in 20 games when the Leafs will probably be something like 25-8-4.

When you were told that this would require going15-3-2 in the next 20 games and a soft schedule doesn't necessarily mean we win those games, this was your response.

yes, I know that Toronto has already lost to some of those teams, but that makes it even more likely that they will not lose again to them

I told you that it doesn't work that way, and now we begin this epic "run" by losing to Chicago, who we already lost to earlier, one of the worst teams in the league who was also decimated by injuries. Is the light beginning to dawn?

If it's only now that you've realized how big an issue the goaltending is, are you ready to retract your prognosis for us being something like 25-8-4 or are you still confident, despite your previous predictions not working out?

I don't know who you have been speaking to but I guaranteeyou It's not me, I'm harder on goaltending then arguably anybody on here.

Are you sure you weren't talking to @Dekes For Days or somebody?

I don't know who it was but I guarantee you it wasn't me

 

[leafs in five]

Erik Gustafsson's got 14 points already this year

 

[leafs in five]

I guess your so used to a GM who gave his mistakes term it upsets you Tre doesn't have to pay to get rid off this mistake . lol .

lol