Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notbias]

Pretty average TBH.

Couple things might have been out of his control like Johnny and Tkachuk leaving via UFA but that's ultimately what seperates a great GM from a good one is the ability to move on from unfortunate happenings.

You think he was average in Calgary?

He left an absolute mess.

 

[ACC1224]

In modern memory, who did better than Dubas? Lou signed Zaitsev to monster deals. What is the worst deal Dubas signed? Mrazek? He had no Clarksons, we were never rumored to be giving stupid deals to players like Bolland under him.

Dubas took a 105 point team that run and gunned and turned them into a 115 point team that was top 5 defensively and 2nd best offensively without trading any major prospects or moving any core players.

Every season he managed to improve the team in some way. Once defense was sorted, he always was able to find guys like Hyman, Mikheyev, Bunting, Jarnkrok, etc who were super cheap but could contribute.

We literally gave Dubas on the job training and fired him over Shanny's ego when he had finally figured it all out.

It's been beaten to death too many times.
A bunch of missteps are listed and then replies come finding excuses for them all.
It's why no Leaf fan takes the Dubas fans seriously, they aren't honest.

He's gone, he's not coming back. Get over it.

 

[HockeyVirus]

It's been beaten to death too many times.
A bunch of missteps are listed and then replies come finding excuses for them all.
It's why no Leaf fan takes the Dubas fans seriously, they aren't honest.

He's gone, he's not coming back. Get over it.

There isn't a GM in the world that doesn't make mistakes. But Dubas ALWAYS made moves you understood why he made them even if they didn't work out.

So many fans around the league question why their team is doing something really stupid. The only example with Dubas that comes to mind was him trading for Murray. Otherwise he took gambles, some worked and some didn't. But he never made a move that sunk the team.

I don't trust Brad to not sign another Clarkson or 2.

 

[SprDaVE]

Not even 15 games into his tenure and this team is already poised to have it's worst season in a decade. Masterful. I hope the plan and the process is worth it.

 

[arso40]

Hindsight ...

But maybe paying big money for 1 defender and signing some lessor lights for forward position and lean on the Marlies.

At this point I think the only defenseman you could support a Marlie's player with would be Rielly.

All the defenders in the line-up outside Rielly need someone to support them.

Injuries of course, but that defense is brutally bad.

You think he was average in Calgary?

He left an absolute mess.

Only thing he did was build a baccend and even then if you watch how they got there let’s just say it wasn’t skillful

 

[Gary Nylund]

In the last 5 years, 4 teams have succeeded.

Nonsense. I'm sure there were a number of teams who were pretty happy with their season.

 

[notbias]

Nonsense. I'm sure there were a number of teams who were pretty happy with their season.

Is happiness the measure of success in competition?

 

[mjd1001]

Is happiness the measure of success in competition?

I'll bring this up again.

Yes, the ultimate reason you play the game is to win the cup, but 'success' can take several forms.

For me there are 2 ways a team can be happy with a season...the fanbase will usually be happy with a season, and many can attribute it to success:

1.) You win the Cup.

2.) You exceed internal and external (fans and media) expectations.

The problem with the Leafs now is...for the most part this team is built and the fanbase expectation is to win the cup. So winning the cup is the only way they can be happy or feel 'success'.

The other side of it, lets look at New Jersey, Buffalo, and Ottawa from last year. They were not expecting to win the cup and most of their fanbases were not either. So especially with Buffalo (missing the playoffs by a single piont) and New Jersey (no only making the playoffs but being a top 10 team all year long), they exceeded expecations AND had what many consider a successful season.

I personally live about 10 miles from Niagara Falls/Niagara-on-the-Lake, so I get my choice of Leafs or Sabres coverage equally on the radio and through media, and I heard an interview with Don Granato the other day, and he basically said this. He said something like....the last 2 years were about getting better. We wanted to win, but it was more important to put players in a position where they could be exposed to certain situations, to learn the game and make sure they would be better for the rest of their careers with us.

So, some teams like New Jersey and Buffalo TRY to win every game, but a lot of times 'success' for them is playing the game in a way where their young players are getting better.

You accomplish that, AND you exceed 'expectations' of your fanbase, and yes, you can have a 'successful' season without winning the Cup.

The leafs are just not in that position anymore.

Nonsense. I'm sure there were a number of teams who were pretty happy with their season.

Agreed, see my post above.

 

[TheRumble]

Leafs defense from 2020-2023

10th in shot attempts allowed

10th in expected goals against

8th in scoring chances allowed

9th in high danger chances allowed

2nd in all those same categories when on the penalty kill.

This forum: Defense is trash, we need to trade Marner/Nylander/Matthews for a stud dman. They take up too much cap.

Fast forward to 2023 off season.

Entire forum stays silent as team adds 4 players that are notorious for being bad defensively. Spends $12 million combined in 5 players.

 

[Sypher04]

Entire forum stays silent as team adds 4 players that are notorious for being bad defensively. Spends $12 million combined in 5 players.

Certainly wasn’t silent. Several went on about it all summer, especially with Reaves & Klingberg.

With that said, I think it’s often overstated.

Guys like Domi & Bertuzzi played on terrible teams which certainly doesn’t help their defensive metrics.

Is Bertuzzi worse defensively than Bunting?

Klingberg imo was supposed to be a sheltered third pair and PP offensive D, which could have been fine. Problem is he’s being asked to do way too much and we don’t have the pieces to cover for him, particularly right now with McCabe and Liljegren sidelined

 

[Gary Nylund]

Is happiness the measure of success in competition?

Um, what?

I would imagine teams have a good idea before each season what they are hoping to accomplish. For some teams the goal is to win the cup, for some it's to make the playoffs, for a few it might be to finish last etc.

For example, I'm pretty sure Ottawa isn't even thinking in terms of winning the cup, but I'm pretty sure they would love to make the playoffs. That is an optimistic goal, it's setting the bar pretty high (which is a good thing) and if they make the playoffs, they would consider the season a success no matter how they do in the playoffs.

The idea that every team except one fails because they don't win the cup is pure nonsense. For this core, the last 7 season have been successful overall during the regular season but a complete failure in the playoffs.

 

[Trapper]

Leafs defense from 2020-2023

10th in shot attempts allowed

10th in expected goals against

8th in scoring chances allowed

9th in high danger chances allowed

2nd in all those same categories when on the penalty kill.

This forum: Defense is trash, we need to trade Marner/Nylander/Matthews for a stud dman. They take up too much cap.

Fast forward to 2023 off season.

Entire forum stays silent as team adds 4 players that are notorious for being bad defensively. Spends $12 million combined in 5 players.

What do you want people to say anymore?
2024 will be 10 years since we’ve drafted Nylander and the team has 1 playoff round win in that time.
There’s nothing left to say.

 

[Jojalu]

The Klingberg signing alone - is already a firable offense.

Seems a tad bit harsh.

At least last night Bert showed he might have a pulse. Domi has looked much better at C.

At this point he should have just extended Gus for 1 million.

Then signed Soucy or Cole

 

[Sypher04]

I still believe Bertuzzi and Domi will be valuable additions to this team over the course of the year. Reaves and Klingberg are seeming less likely. Kampf is also badly overpaid, but that’s been apparent all along. Still hopeful Sammy will figure it out as well.

 

[notbias]

Um, what?

I would imagine teams have a good idea before each season what they are hoping to accomplish. For some teams the goal is to win the cup, for some it's to make the playoffs, for a few it might be to finish last etc.

For example, I'm pretty sure Ottawa isn't even thinking in terms of winning the cup, but I'm pretty sure they would love to make the playoffs. That is an optimistic goal, it's setting the bar pretty high (which is a good thing) and if they make the playoffs, they would consider the season a success no matter how they do in the playoffs.

The idea that every team except one fails because they don't win the cup is pure nonsense. For this core, the last 7 season have been successful overall during the regular season but a complete failure in the playoffs.

Toronto's goal is likely cup or nothing which means they will be upset 99% of the time... winning a cup is not an easy thing... if it is advancing further than the year before they succeeded.

I think most team's idea of success is winning it all, and if it isn't, that is not a good culture.

I'd be curious to see an interview of a player saying "We'd be happy with 3 rounds".

 

[thusk]

Ok if not Acciari then any of the other grinders that are not literally the worst defensive forward in the league with less than 0 offense.

You say sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but it seems like all of them didn’t work.

How can he repair a wasted season easily? It would cost us picks just to dump his dogshit signings let alone add quality replacements.

Leafs played 13 game...

Whats happening this season is not about treliving work, its about Dubas with the team he left...

The defensive issue was there before treliving was there and sure you will cost pick or something to bring quality, its what happening when your 1st summer as GM, your only option to solve a huge defensive hole was depht D... hard to replace a real #2 D with 4-5-6-7th D. The #1 leafs need is a d #2... and yes you will need to give asset over 90-95% of the time to get it...

Get a #3 brodie as 2 is dubas
Get 4/5th d at best like top 3 in liljegren/mccabe... its dubas again

The only thing treliving did its take a guest seeing that same problem with pretty poor option available thats doesn't mean by exemple he can trade klinberg exemple in a deal to bring hanifin in toronto. Leafs are not in trouble because he took low risk one year deal

Leafs can still trade bertuzzi at 5,5 with only 1 year deal, same thing with domi and probably the same with klinberg despite the fact they having a pretty bad season until now. The mistake would be to give 3-4-5-6 years deal to those player. For me the only mistake he did is reaves.

 

[thusk]

There isn't a GM in the world that doesn't make mistakes. But Dubas ALWAYS made moves you understood why he made them even if they didn't work out.

So many fans around the league question why their team is doing something really stupid. The only example with Dubas that comes to mind was him trading for Murray. Otherwise he took gambles, some worked and some didn't. But he never made a move that sunk the team.

I don't trust Brad to not sign another Clarkson or 2.

Youre lucky if you understand

signing an average guy like mrazek 3,8M 3 years..

why he paid so much for a bottom 6 player like foligno

Why he trade for mccann to protect kerfoot/holl

Kadri with great contract for an uncoming ufa in barrie...

 

[stickty111]

Over 4 million dollar d man already getting scratched, and our 38 year old tough guy given a 3 year deal as well. Just a terrible start.

 

[thusk]

Leafs defense from 2020-2023

10th in shot attempts allowed

10th in expected goals against

8th in scoring chances allowed

9th in high danger chances allowed

2nd in all those same categories when on the penalty kill.

This forum: Defense is trash, we need to trade Marner/Nylander/Matthews for a stud dman. They take up too much cap.

Fast forward to 2023 off season.

Entire forum stays silent as team adds 4 players that are notorious for being bad defensively. Spends $12 million combined in 5 players.

When leafs was at their best ?

When rielly was #1
Muzzin #2
Brodie #3
Holl# 4

Last season leafs lost Muzzin... leafs was lost a step, this season Holl is gone + injury to mccabe and liljegren and right now leafs are amount worst D in NHL.

For me those number just show me how Muzzin lost really hurt leafs

 

[4thline]

Leafs played 13 game...

Whats happening this season is not about treliving work, s reaves.

Granting the Holmberg extension and Samsonov arbitration as fait accompli, Tre went into the summer with this

Knies-Matthews-Marner
xxx-Tavares-Nylander
xxx-xxx-Jarncrok
xxx-xxx-Lafferty
Holmberg

Rielly-xxx
McCabe-Brodie
xxx-Liljegren
Giordano-Timmins

Samsonov/Woll

The majority of a 110 point team, with holes of:
-a winger that can complement Tavares-Nylander, (doesn't need be expensive)
-a defensive d man that can complement Rielly (he's been at his best with the likes of Schenn/Hainsey)
-another 4/5D
- combination of 4 bottom 6 Forwards

To do so he had 15.9 million to ice a 23 man roster.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Toronto's goal is likely cup or nothing which means they will be upset 99% of the time... winning a cup is not an easy thing... if it is advancing further than the year before they succeeded.

I think most team's idea of success is winning it all, and if it isn't, that is not a good culture.

I'd be curious to see an interview of a player saying "We'd be happy with 3 rounds".

So you see no difference between winning 3 rounds, and missing the playoffs. That's what I thought, agree to disagree.

I think deep down you don't believe this nonsense either, it's just something to make you feel better about our massive playoff failures. If it works for you than that's fine, I prefer to face reality.

 

[thusk]

Granting the Holmberg extension and Samsonov arbitration as fait accompli, Tre went into the summer with this

Knies-Matthews-Marner
xxx-Tavares-Nylander
xxx-xxx-Jarncrok
xxx-xxx-Lafferty
Holmberg

Rielly-xxx
McCabe-Brodie
xxx-Liljegren
Giordano-Timmins

Samsonov/Woll

The majority of a 110 point team, with holes of:
-a winger that can complement Tavares-Nylander, (doesn't need be expensive)
-a defensive d man that can complement Rielly (he's been at his best with the likes of Schenn/Hainsey)
-another 4/5D
- combination of 4 bottom 6 Forwards

To do so he had 15.9 million to ice a 23 man roster.

Its not a player to play with rielly leafs need, the reality, its a player to drive the second pair because brodie and McCabe get destroy and outplayed in playoff. They are good player to complete a pair not tonbe the main piece...rielly dont need to be babysit...

The goal was not to be at the same level leafs was last season in playoff, they was not good enough... it was trying to come back to whats leafs was looking like 2 years ago vs tampa, thats where leafs was the closer to be a winning team... and the difference its Muzzin, a #2 who was driving his pair with Holl against top opposite line game after game without being in huge trouble come playoff time.

So you can have 20M available, if you dont have any real good #2 who bring whats your D available, thats changing absolutly nothing.

Just compare what Dubas did vs boston who are for me a better exemple to how build a team

What was 1st leafs move last few trwde deadline? Get a 3rd C , bottom 6 foward or depht D... when#1 need was a #2 D... last 2 season, what Boston did... trade for Lindholm resigned him long term, trade for orlov... ok that didn't work last season but Boston always a better team year after year because they spent their best asset to upgrade their D, not their depht

You can do the same with Carolina who did the same exact thing... tampa did the same thing with mcdonaugh and savard...

when was the last time leafs really spend asset in a real too 3 D? Muzzin...it wqs the only one who really deserve whats leafs gave up...

 

[TimeZone]

There isn't a GM in the world that doesn't make mistakes. But Dubas ALWAYS made moves you understood why he made them even if they didn't work out.

So many fans around the league question why their team is doing something really stupid. The only example with Dubas that comes to mind was him trading for Murray. Otherwise he took gambles, some worked and some didn't. But he never made a move that sunk the team.

I don't trust Brad to not sign another Clarkson or 2.

Speak for yourself.

Foligno
Protecting Holl over McCann

Brutal contracts to Marner, Matthews(length), Tavares which have crippled our team and have us stuck in mediocrity at least until JT comes off the books.

Make no mistake about it, this is Kyles team with some patchwork around the outside.

How are the Pens looking btw?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

We literally hired this guy out of pure desperation which I stated at the time was honestly pretty pathetic. I like how the board and Shanahan tried to dress it up by saying they did an exhaustive search yet hired the first bum that hit the open market.

What kind of competent organization makes critical business decisions like this? Even as a job candidate, if I saw a company willing to move so quickly to hire me without even interviewing anybody else I would be questioning the type of environment that has led said company to be in such a rush.

Shanahan should be fired. His decisions in regards to Dubas and Treliving are the reason this team sucks so much ass right now. Why he still has a job I don’t know, but one thing is for sure; performance doesn’t matter at MLSE. Best job security in the biz though clearly

 

[ACC1224]

We literally hired this guy out of pure desperation which I stated at the time was honestly pretty pathetic. I like how the board and Shanahan tried to dress it up by saying they did an exhaustive search yet hired the first bum that hit the open market.

What kind of competent organization makes critical business decisions like this? Even as a job candidate, if I saw a company willing to move so quickly to hire me without even interviewing anybody else I would be questioning the type of environment that has led said company to be in such a rush.

Shanahan should be fired. His decisions in regards to Dubas and Treliving are the reason this team sucks so much ass right now. Why he still has a job I don’t know, but one thing is for sure; performance doesn’t matter at MLSE. Best job security in the biz though clearly

NHL is a pretty small world, everybody knows everybody so you can get away without exhaustive interviews.
(I'm not defending anything they did by pointing that out)