Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[GoonieFace]

The Olympic Gold is a funny example because the job is not really the same as building an NHL franchise. It doesn't have am amateur draft, contract negotiations, salary caps, trades or many of the things that make up a big part of the NHL GMs job. It's a bit more like picking an all star team while having a lot of other qualified NHL leadershio on your staff.

I am not bashing Yzerman.

I often use him as an example when talking about Marner or Matthews and their inability to win the big games. Yzerman was in Detroit for 14 years before they won a cup. His scoring rates dropped more than the average player's did from regular season to playoffs. Eventually they surrounded Yzerman with so much talent they became a winner; talent like Fedorov, Larionov, Shanahan, Kozlov, Draper, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Murphy and Vernon. There was no salary cap back then.

Maybe that example makes the case for patience? Maybe it points out that Yzerman was not the winner he is remembered as.

Is Shanahan a winner? He has won cups and Olympics Gold as a player. Does that "winner pedigree" cross from player to GM? I think he is a winner.

So we need to surround 4 of the highest 11 paid NHL’ers with players to make them better?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Fun fact, Brad Treliving was the co-GM of Canada's 2016 World Championship Gold Medal Winning Team.

There you go, yet Yzerman is seen as a much better GM for some reason despite completely failing with Detroit

 

[ACC1224]

The Olympic Gold is a funny example because the job is not really the same as building an NHL franchise. It doesn't have am amateur draft, contract negotiations, salary caps, trades or many of the things that make up a big part of the NHL GMs job. It's a bit more like picking an all star team while having a lot of other qualified NHL leadershio on your staff.

I am not bashing Yzerman.

I often use him as an example when talking about Marner or Matthews and their inability to win the big games. Yzerman was in Detroit for 14 years before they won a cup. His scoring rates dropped more than the average player's did from regular season to playoffs. Eventually they surrounded Yzerman with so much talent they became a winner; talent like Fedorov, Larionov, Shanahan, Kozlov, Draper, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Murphy and Vernon. There was no salary cap back then.

Maybe that example makes the case for patience? Maybe it points out that Yzerman was not the winner he is remembered as.

Is Shanahan a winner? He has won cups and Olympics Gold as a player. Does that "winner pedigree" cross from player to GM? I think he is a winner.

Fun fact, Marner won every award possible plus the Memorial Cup in his last year of junior. Only OHL player ever to accomplish that. #winner

There you go, yet Yzerman is seen as a much better GM for some reason despite completely failing with Detroit

The whole thing is stupid but for those that hate the team, they will find any reason to bash it.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I mean Yzerman has not been successful in Detroit, the man is going into year 6 and has yet to even make the playoffs if you are a GM and you can't even make the playoffs in 5 years you failed.

He's not going to get fired because nobody in Detroit is going to fire arguably the greatest red wing to ever live.

But if he were anyone else in any other sport he'd be gone because he has failed.

But He's not anyone else in any other sport, He's Steve Yzerman, He's GM of the Red Wings so nobody is going to fire him.

To be fair, his team is in the most stacked division in the NHL. Which of the Leafs, Lightning, Panthers, Bruins are they supposed to beat out? Then they are competing with other teams like the rising Sabres and a few other fringe teams like the Pens, and Caps for wildcard spots.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To be fair, his team is in the most stacked division in the NHL. Which of the Leafs, Lightning, Panthers, Bruins are they supposed to beat out? Then they are competing with other teams like the rising Sabres and a few other fringe teams like the Pens, and Caps for wildcard spots.

He's supposed to find a way, that's his job.

 

[conFABulator]

So we need to surround 4 of the highest 11 paid NHL’ers with players to make them better?

I didn't say that. I was the talking about Yzerman in a non cap world. I don't think any of what worked then is relavant to the current day Leafs.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I didn't say that. I was the talking about Yzerman in a non cap world. I don't think any of what worked then is relavant to the current day Leafs.

Then why bring it up?

 

[conFABulator]

Then why bring it up?

Someone was talking about needing management in here that had a track record of being winners. I asked if they considered Yzerman and Rutherford winners. I was curious on that definition of winner.

Do we consider Shanny a winner? He has won cups, but as a player. Same with Yzerman, though he gets a lot of credit as a super GM but hasn't won.

Obviously supporting your core with a.strong cast is still relevant in today's team building NHL. It's more difficult than it used to be, the Detroit model is not relevant with today's constraints.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Someone was talking about needing management in here that had a track record of being winners. I asked if they considered Yzerman and Rutherford winners. I was curious on that definition of winner.

Do we consider Shanny a winner? He has won cups, but as a player. Same with Yzerman, though he gets a lot of credit as a super GM but hasn't won.

Obviously supporting your core with a.strong cast is still relevant in today's team building NHL. It's more difficult than it used to be, the Detroit model is not relevant with today's constraints.

Rutherford is definitely a winner he's 3 cups as a GM.

Shanny and Yzerman are winners as players, not winners as management.

Not everu great player is a great coach, GM etc.

 

[conFABulator]

Rutherford is definitely a winner he's 3 cups as a GM.

Shanny and Yzerman are winners as players, not winners as management.

Not everu great player is a great coach, GM etc.

Agree with all that.

It's an interesting discussion about what is considered a "winner" vs "someone who has won before".

Berube is a winner. Babcock was a winner. Bylsma was a winner. Craig Button won a cup as management in Dallas.

These guys all won. I don't think they should all be equally branded as winners. The Yzerman one is interesting because he gets revered as a genius, winning GM. Not sure what that is based on exactly. Even as a player for Stevie Y. Who I like.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Leo Komarov won an Olympic gold - it can't be that hard.

 

[rumman]

Leo Komarov won an Olympic gold - it can't be that hard.

This team could use some players with the heart of Leo Komarov, with or without his gold medal…….

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Agree with all that.

It's an interesting discussion about what is considered a "winner" vs "someone who has won before".

Berube is a winner. Babcock was a winner. Bylsma was a winner. Craig Button won a cup as management in Dallas.

These guys all won. I don't think they should all be equally branded as winners. The Yzerman one is interesting because he gets reversed as a genius, winning GM. Not sure what that is based on exactly. Even as a player for Stevie Y. Who I like.

I separate the 2, if you are talking about playing careers then Absolutely guys like Yzerman and Shanny are winners they have cups and gold medals and everything else.

As management so far they are not winners because they haven't gotten their teams a championship.

And just in case you ask, winning a gold medal for team Canada or even doing it as a coach is different from doing it as a GM.

Being the GM of team Canada is the easiest job in hockey

 

[ACC1224]

I separate the 2, if you are talking about playing careers then Absolutely guys like Yzerman and Shanny are winners they have cups and gold medals and everything else.

As management so far they are not winners because they haven't gotten their teams a championship.

And just in case you ask, winning a gold medal for team Canada or even doing it as a coach is different from doing it as a GM.

Being the GM of team Canada is the easiest job in hockey

Sure when the league is shut down. Not so easy for the World Championships.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He must be an agent's favourite GM because he just gives players everything they ask for.

scares me. Re: Marner.

He biggest failing here though is not being able to trade one of either Marner or Nylander.

it has to be done.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This team could use some players with the heart of Leo Komarov, with or without his gold medal…….

He and Kadri made quite the pair. Remember them slapping each other on the bench?

Leo was really the ultimate shit-disturber - I saw a clip of a game in Europe where he actually had all the players from the other team chasing him around the ice. I saw him go after Chara after a bad hit when he was on the Islanders.

Kadri's problems really started when they got split up. I think he tried to take over the trouble maker role and he just wasn't very good at not quite crossing the line.

 

[notDatsyuk]

scares me. Re: Marner.


it has to be done.

The Marner situation would scare me a lot more if Dubas was still here.

I think not trading Nylander was the right move. It may be virtually impossible to trade Marner, but letting him walk would be the next best.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

First pre season game of the year tonight hopefully we get to see some of the new additions

 

[Shooter2x]

The Marner situation would scare me a lot more if Dubas was still here.

I think not trading Nylander was the right move. It may be virtually impossible to trade Marner, but letting him walk would be the next best.

Signing Marner would be the best option.

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

In no universe is a player in Marners caliber seen as cap relief.

The wings might have 27 mil in Seider, Raymond and Larkin and still wont make the playoffs. Our 3 amigos are what, going to be 40 mil combined if you round up and guarantee playoffs even on their bad days. You get what you pay for.

Superstars get paid especially if its a Canadian market. Its a blessing and a curse we have these guys. But only a curse because the league is setup in a way to make people prefer Japanese Car Soccer over hockey.

Edit: Oh all the wings guys signed now. Close enough

 

[Gary Nylund]

Signing Marner would be the best option.

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

In no universe is a player in Marners caliber seen as cap relief.

The wings might have 27 mil in Seider, Raymond and Larkin and still wont make the playoffs. Our 3 amigos are what, going to be 40 mil combined if you round up and guarantee playoffs even on their bad days. You get what you pay for.

Superstars get paid especially if its a Canadian market. Its a blessing and a curse we have these guys. But only a curse because the league is setup in a way to make people prefer Japanese Car Soccer over hockey.

If you're happy with just making the playoffs then sure, sign Marner as he's a great regular season player. If you want to win in the playoffs, then no.

 

[Racer88]

Signing Marner would be the best option.

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

In no universe is a player in Marners caliber seen as cap relief.

The wings might have 27 mil in Seider, Raymond and Larkin and still wont make the playoffs. Our 3 amigos are what, going to be 40 mil combined if you round up and guarantee playoffs even on their bad days. You get what you pay for.

Superstars get paid especially if its a Canadian market. Its a blessing and a curse we have these guys. But only a curse because the league is setup in a way to make people prefer Japanese Car Soccer over hockey.

Edit: Oh all the wings guys signed now. Close enough

Signing Marner for the amount he most likely wants would be a major mistake and hobble the team for another 8 years.
Letting him walk for nothing is not the greatest idea either but they blew the chance to move him for at least some sort of return so no matter what they do it’s not going to be good.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Signing Marner for the amount he most likely wants would be a major mistake and hobble the team for another 8 years.
Letting him walk for nothing is not the greatest idea either but they blew the chance to move him for at least some sort of return so no matter what they do it’s not going to be good.

Yup. It's too bad Tre didn't have the wisdom and/or the balls to move Marner when he had the chance. Of course it's unfortunate that it even got this far, I would have shopped him around after we lost to MTL in the playoffs and the return would have been huge enabling us to move on from this spend half the cap on 4 forwards nonsense which has turned out to be a massive failure.

 

[Arzak]

Signing Marner would be the best option.

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

Could you tell us who we might get back and from whom?

Mitch is top 20-30 player in this league, he is on bad contract going worse soon. I don't get why would anyone trade their top6 player for 1 year playoff rental of Mitch Marner, notoriously bad in playoffs? They would also need to clear 11M in cap.

 

[notbias]

The Marner situation would scare me a lot more if Dubas was still here.

I think not trading Nylander was the right move. It may be virtually impossible to trade Marner, but letting him walk would be the next best.

Treliving arguably signed the worst contract in the league currently, and this is your worry?

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

Tkachuk 2.0? Let's do it.

Yup. It's too bad Tre didn't have the wisdom and/or the balls to move Marner when he had the chance. Of course it's unfortunate that it even got this far, I would have shopped him around after we lost to MTL in the playoffs and the return would have been huge enabling us to move on from this spend half the cap on 4 forwards nonsense which has turned out to be a massive failure.

Why would the return be huge?

You all talk like he is a cap dump.

Can there be some consistency for once?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why would the return be huge?

You all talk like he is a cap dump.

Can there be some consistency for once?

I said the return "would have been" huge. Marner coming off a season where IIRC he was a 1st team all-star IIRC and was under contract for 4 more years, you don't think we would have gotten a lot back for him in a trade?

Not sure why you're asking me about "consistency", can you explain yourself?