Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notbias]

I said the return "would have been" huge. Marner coming off a season where IIRC he was a 1st team all-star IIRC and was under contract for 4 more years, you don't think we would have gotten a lot back for him in a trade?

Not sure why you're asking me about "consistency", can you explain yourself?

So you thought that he was extremely valuable then, and most GMs would agree?

Now that he is producing better in the playoffs you think his value has dropped?

I just assumed he was a playoff dud when he was producing worse, not better, my mistake.

Worth a ton, a top player:

Terrible player:

I just want to make sure I am following.

 

[Arzak]

Fun fact, Marner won every award possible plus the Memorial Cup in his last year of junior. Only OHL player ever to accomplish that. #winner


The whole thing is stupid but for those that hate the team, they will find any reason to bash it.

Did you know he was also nominated for Selke?

No one milks Memorial Cup win like Mitch fans. The most famous Memorial Cup winner ever ! Plus he is elite on PK, elite on our really bad PK. #winner

 

[Gary Nylund]

So you thought that he was extremely valuable then, and most GMs would agree?

Now that he is producing better in the playoffs you think his value has dropped?

I just assumed he was a playoff dud when he was producing worse, not better, my mistake.

Worth a ton, a top player:

View attachment 908608

Terrible player:

View attachment 908609

I just want to make sure I am following.

I'd say Marner hasn't been anywhere close to being worth his cap hit in the playoffs, especially in recent years. He's managed to compile some points but too many of them haven't been meaningful in terms of winning us games and he disappears when the going gets tough. Bottom line is that he looks less impressive when you watch the games then he does from looking at the spreadsheets.

Also, the last two series he's played for us have probably been his worst ever, maybe that doesn't concern you but to me it seems like a pretty big red flag.

Did you know he was also nominated for Selke?

No one milks Memorial Cup win like Mitch fans. The most famous Memorial Cup winner ever ! Plus he is elite on PK, elite on our really bad PK. #winner

Yeah this Memorial Cup nonsense is obviously irrelevant. Only his biggest fanboys could pump the tires of an 8 year NHL veteran player with his achievements in junior hockey.

But who knows, maybe his agent will bring that up in contract talks?

 

[Arzak]

Yeah this Memorial Cup nonsense is obviously irrelevant. Only his biggest fanboys could pump the tires of an 8 year NHL veteran player with his achievements in junior hockey.

But who knows, maybe his agent will bring that up in contract talks?

I have to say, posting Mitch was great playing against kids 8 years ago is hardly a brag some think it is.

edit:
It will be mentioned . Lou took his performance bonus, his ELC being PPG, all that jazz. Plus they'll argue he is better than Draisatl, settle on Matthews contract, calling it discount.

 

[notbias]

I'd say Marner hasn't been anywhere close to being worth his cap hit in the playoffs, especially in recent years. He's managed to compile some points but too many of them haven't been meaningful in terms of winning us games and he disappears when the going gets tough. Bottom line is that he looks less impressive when you watch the games then he does from looking at the spreadsheets.

Also, the last two series he's played for us have probably been his worst ever, maybe that doesn't concern you but to me it seems like a pretty big red flag.

I'm not arguing he's been a great playoff performer, he's had mixed results recently.

The off-season you are talking about trading him, the previous three playoffs, his stat line was 19GP-2G-10A-12P -4. That is his worst collective three years of any time and you think his value was high.

I am trying to understand how he was worth more before when he was worse.

When he was performing worse in the playoffs (the regular season is the same), he had more value?

For the record, I think he has value and had value.

We can leave it, it makes no sense to me at all how someone performing worse would have more value, but I guess the potential of him outweighed the worse performances.

 

[Racer88]

Yup. It's too bad Tre didn't have the wisdom and/or the balls to move Marner when he had the chance. Of course it's unfortunate that it even got this far, I would have shopped him around after we lost to MTL in the playoffs and the return would have been huge enabling us to move on from this spend half the cap on 4 forwards nonsense which has turned out to be a massive failure.

I agree 100%

 

[Da Mash]

Alot of our stars didnt come up big in the playoffs. It wasnt just Marner.

"when games get tough" is just another term that the rules change to benefit the goons.

They are tougher because defenceman especally bigger and slower ones in the playoffs are allowed to step up and interfere to slow down the opposing player with skill. Crosschecks are also let go as refs turn a blind eye to that. Dont even mention the skimmishes in front of the net during the playoffs. But the Don Cherry fans love that kind of hockey or goonery.

Just make the rules all the same all year long. No other sport does this. Its not like players got bigger balls in the playoffs , its because they know they can get away with more in the playoffs because the rules change. The grind of playoff hockey is hard as you play alot of games in a short period of time I will agree to that.

 

[Racer88]

Ya let’s go all the way Back to his junior days for him to be a #winner.
Obviously some do not know that there are countless players that were stars in the ohl that never translated to the NHL game. That’s not to say that Marner isn’t a good NHl players but using junior stats after 8 years to prop him up is just silly.
He is good, just not good enough to justify his current contract and certainly not what I’m sure is going to be a crazy next contract.

 

[rumman]

Alot of our stars didnt come up big in the playoffs. It wasnt just Marner.

"when games get tough" is just another term that the rules change to benefit the goons.

They are tougher because defenceman especally bigger and slower ones in the playoffs are allowed to step up and interfere to slow down the opposing player with skill. Crosschecks are also let go as refs turn a blind eye to that. Dont even mention the skimmishes in front of the net during the playoffs. But the Don Cherry fans love that kind of hockey.

Just make the rules all the same all year long. No other sport does this. Its not like players got bigger balls in the playoffs , its because they know they can get away with more in the playoffs because the rules change. The grind of playoff hockey is hard as you play alot of games in a short period of time I will agree to that.

Another lame excuse to justify another playoff failure. They’ll play playoff hockey every game under Berube instead if shinny hockey in the regular season. The team will be ready for the playoffs this year because of it. Team health is the only concern imo…….

 

[notbias]

Another lame excuse to justify another playoff failure. They’ll play playoff hockey every game under Berube instead if shinny hockey in the regular season. The team will be ready for the playoffs this year because of it. Team health is the only concern imo…….

Why did Berube only get his team ready for playoff hockey one year?

 

[rumman]

Why did Berube only get his team ready for playoff hockey one year?

Because it was the only year he was head coach in St. Louis……..

 

[Evilhomer]

Alot of our stars didnt come up big in the playoffs. It wasnt just Marner.

"when games get tough" is just another term that the rules change to benefit the goons.

They are tougher because defenceman especally bigger and slower ones in the playoffs are allowed to step up and interfere to slow down the opposing player with skill. Crosschecks are also let go as refs turn a blind eye to that. Dont even mention the skimmishes in front of the net during the playoffs. But the Don Cherry fans love that kind of hockey or goonery.

Just make the rules all the same all year long. No other sport does this. Its not like players got bigger balls in the playoffs , its because they know they can get away with more in the playoffs because the rules change. The grind of playoff hockey is hard as you play alot of games in a short period of time I will agree to that.

Any game with contact is exactly the same. NBA games change dramatically in the playoffs relative to the regular season.

 

[notbias]

Because it was the only year he was head coach in St. Louis……..

What? He was the head coach for multiple years... what are you talking about?

He prepped his team one year it appeared.

 

[rumman]

What? He was the head coach for multiple years... what are you talking about?

He prepped his team one year it appeared.

I knew you would respond with ancient history, I could argue with you over your lame points ir go sweat my ass off cutting the grass, guess which one I’d rather do, find another mark to listen to your drivel………

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not arguing he's been a great playoff performer, he's had mixed results recently.

The off-season you are talking about trading him, the previous three playoffs, his stat line was 19GP-2G-10A-12P -4. That is his worst collective three years of any time and you think his value was high.

I am trying to understand how he was worth more before when he was worse.

When he was performing worse in the playoffs (the regular season is the same), he had more value?

For the record, I think he has value and had value.

We can leave it, it makes no sense to me at all how someone performing worse would have more value, but I guess the potential of him outweighed the worse performances.

I guess you missed the part where I mentioned he was still under contract for 4 more years after the MTL series whereas now he's just a rental. If you're trading for a player you like who's entering his prime, would you rather have him signed for 4 years or 1?

I think his value is still high, it's just higher for a team with no cup aspirations. I assume he Leafs are trying to win the cup and locking down Marner for another long term deal at a massive cap hit is a big step in the wrong direction.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Alot of our stars didnt come up big in the playoffs. It wasnt just Marner.

"when games get tough" is just another term that the rules change to benefit the goons.

They are tougher because defenceman especally bigger and slower ones in the playoffs are allowed to step up and interfere to slow down the opposing player with skill. Crosschecks are also let go as refs turn a blind eye to that. Dont even mention the skimmishes in front of the net during the playoffs. But the Don Cherry fans love that kind of hockey or goonery.

Just make the rules all the same all year long. No other sport does this. Its not like players got bigger balls in the playoffs , its because they know they can get away with more in the playoffs because the rules change. The grind of playoff hockey is hard as you play alot of games in a short period of time I will agree to that.

Marner and JT drop off a lot more in the playoffs than Matthews Nylander, that's been shown here many times. I agree it totally sucks that playoff hockey is so different but that's just the way it is and until that changes, you have to factor that into your thinking if you want your team to have success in the playoffs.

Any game with contact is exactly the same. NBA games change dramatically in the playoffs relative to the regular season.

IMO this is a MUCH bigger factor in the NHL.

 

[Evilhomer]

IMO this is a MUCH bigger factor in the NHL.

I don't know. The physicality in the NBA is night and day between the regular season and the playoffs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Signing Marner would be the best option.

Treliving isnt a dinosaur GM like people make him out to be. I have zero doubts the only options are sign Marner, or fleece another team using Marner in a trade.

In no universe is a player in Marners caliber seen as cap relief.

The wings might have 27 mil in Seider, Raymond and Larkin and still wont make the playoffs. Our 3 amigos are what, going to be 40 mil combined if you round up and guarantee playoffs even on their bad days. You get what you pay for.

Superstars get paid especially if its a Canadian market. Its a blessing and a curse we have these guys. But only a curse because the league is setup in a way to make people prefer Japanese Car Soccer over hockey.

Edit: Oh all the wings guys signed now. Close enough

Signing Marner would be the best option only if it was for a reasonable amount, which seems unlikely.

I never suggested Tre was a dinosaur or that Marner was only cap relief - you may be thinking of another poster. The rest of your post doesn't seem to relate at all to mine.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Treliving arguably signed the worst contract in the league currently, and this is your worry?

Ok, I'll bite - what do you think is "the worst contract in the league currently"?

 

[notbias]

Ok, I'll bite - what do you think is "the worst contract in the league currently"?

Huberdeau, just due to length and amount.

Not sure who would be worse honestly, Nurse is pretty bad...

 

[Sypher04]

Huberdeau, just due to length and amount.

Not sure who would be worse honestly, Nurse is pretty bad...

That’s a good answer. Gotta be up there.

Laine is really bad too

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Huberdeau, just due to length and amount.

Not sure who would be worse honestly, Nurse is pretty bad...

I'd lean towards Nurse but It's close

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The problem is the Leafs want their cake and to eat it too.

They want to contend now AND build for the future. So Treliving's keeping his firsts and top prospects while dumpster diving to fill gaps in the roster. His attempt at bridging the current core to the next while remaining competitive is bound to stall.

If they don't take another step back first that is.

Simply put the Leafs are no longer a credible contender. That's if they ever were one to begin with. It has nothing to do with the actual on-ice losing either.

Losing is simply the result of building a loser team.

At least with Dubas I knew what his priorities were. I agreed with what he was trying to do even if I disagreed with virtually every move he made in attempt to do it. He traded away all those futures to give them the best chance to win it all now.

They're just a directionless mess with Treliving in charge.

 

[colchar]

(mod)

"when games get tough" is just another term that the rules change to benefit the goons.

Goons? Sweet Jebus. If you think playing tough makes one a goon, why do you watch hockey? I think you'd be better off with figure skating.

 

[Da Mash]

Fixed that for ya'.



Goons? Sweet Jebus. If you think playing tough makes one a goon, why do you watch hockey? I think you'd be better off with figure skating.

The rules change.....that is a fact. It hampers the stars

The game doesnt get any tougher....guys are tough enough to play 82 games.

Tell me again how not calling interference or crosschecking like they do in the regular season are helping the players. ?

Why change the rules at all? No other sport does it. Why is it so hard to let all those interference and crosschecks go in the regular season. ?

everytime I ask why the rules change from regular season to playoffs all I get is crickets and the excuse is ....its always been like that.....

Why dont other sports do it?

So you play 82 games with more open ice but come playoff time the refs let Defenceman cheat and make the game more neutral at center ice because they can interfere if a faster more skilled player will beat his team to the puck and this is ok because "its tough hockey?

Just keep the rules the same....not hard to do....every other sport does it regular season and playoffs.....but not the NHL?

Figure skating.....thats nice....Ive been watching hockey alot longer than you my friend.