Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[conFABulator]

I don't think Steeves has much shot at a shot

Me neither, he is not waiver exempt though, so that could play in if they feel he is an asset.

 

[rumman]

You said he's completely failed

zero playoff rounds won thus far, therefore zero success thus far, hard not to call that complete failure thus far..........

 

[weems]

"Gifted offensive players" yes, but the right ones for a PP?

The defenceman has a decent but not great shot. One forward has a below average shot and a tendency to try for the most difficult passes. The slot man doesn't like to screen the goalie.

Additionally, one of the two snipers is back at the point playing quarterback.

When a good coach gets his players to get on the weaker ones quickly, cut off the cross ice pass, and make sure the goalie can see the puck all the time, it's easy to defend, especially when the players are pretty stationary.

Yep it also could be a problematic mix but then it's on the coach to change the setup or possibly the 5 players on the PP.

Having Marner/Rielly be such focal points of the PP when both don't love to shoot and aren't the most dangerous shooting threats isn't optimal.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Me neither, he is not waiver exempt though, so that could play in if they feel he is an asset.

I'm not concerned about losing Steeves to waivers

 

[conFABulator]

I'm not concerned about losing Steeves to waivers

I don't lose sleep over this, but these are considerations in asset management

 

[conFABulator]

Last year we had Bert, Domi, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Reaves, Tavares for 9 spots locked in
We had Abruzzese, Blandisi, Cowan, Clifford, Gregor, Gambrell, Holmberg, Knies, Lafferty, Minten, Robertson, Shaw, Steeves - 13 guys with NHL experience or a legit shot at competing for a spot
Plus Caufield, Ellis, Frasca, Hirvonen, Kressler, Lisowsky, Mastrosimone, O'Brien, Ovchinnikov, Shea, Singleton, Suthers, Tverberg, and Weiss at camp too
McMann and Voit injured.

Two years ago, Bunting, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Kerfoot, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares were locks
Anderson, Aston-Reese, Aube-Kubel, Blandisi, Clifford, Engvall, Gaudette, Holmberg, Malgin, Robertson, Shaw, Steeves were competing

2021, the last spots were battled for by Amadio, Anderson, Brooks, Clune, Engvall, Gabriel, Gusev, Ho-Sang, Ritchie, Robertson, Seney, Simmonds

etc.



I will say, I like this year's quality of competition better, I'm with you on that, but organizational depth and internal competition really hasn't been an issue for years

I would say that the better the incoming and challenging depth is the stronger the competition is. I see a lot of names like Abruzzese, Blandisi, Clifford, Shaw, Seney, and Gabriel and I couldn't imagine any of them beating out the guys I listed this year.

I intentionally didn't list guys further down the depth chart like Hirvonen, Tverberg and Voit because they are at least a year away and not challenging for spots this year IMO.

 

[Leafs1991]

It's fair to have concerns, it's the repeating the same things daily that is a little strange.
Everyone knows the team has failed in the playoffs, it doesn't need to be pointed out many times daily.

Agreed. I have concerns. I don't think the team has truly improved that much. But there is reason for some optimism and that's cause of the coaching change. But to be saying EVERYTHING is a failure like some posters in here are doing, is too much.

I guarantee none of these posters will ever be happy.

Example: McDavid somehow makes it to UFA and signs for 8 years with the Leafs at 14mil a year. These posters will 100% complain that the contract is too long, that McDavid isn't that good, cap hit is too high etc. They will never be happy, even if the Leafs win the cup.

until they achieve some type of playoff success I don't think it's unreasonable to say Tre has completely failed unless the goal is jersey sales. In professional sports winning is everything, well at least to everyone except MLSE..........


that guy's mantra is "do as I say, not as I do," classic confession through projection............

So you expected results during the 1st year he was here?

I think you honestly care a bit too much too lol

 

[rumman]

Agreed. I have concerns. I don't think the team has truly improved that much. But there is reason for some optimism and that's cause of the coaching change. But to be saying EVERYTHING is a failure like some posters in here are doing, is too much.

I guarantee none of these posters will ever be happy.

Example: McDavid somehow makes it to UFA and signs for 8 years with the Leafs at 14mil a year. These posters will 100% complain that the contract is too long, that McDavid isn't that good, cap hit is too high etc. They will never be happy, even if the Leafs win the cup.


So you expected results during the 1st year he was here?

I think you honestly care a bit too much too lol

I don’t expect shit, the guy I was conversing with implied Tre has been successful thus far, which of course he hasn’t been…….

 

[conFABulator]

I don’t expect shit, the guy I was conversing with implied Tre has been successful thus far, which of course he hasn’t been…….

So, Yzerman is not successful in Detroit? I mean, so unsuccessful that the fans should stop supporting him? Same for Rutherford in Vancouver?

You say you "don't expect shit" but your definition of success is quite binary with no allowance for the process or progress.

 

[rumman]

So, Yzerman is not successful in Detroit? I mean, so unsuccessful that the fans should stop supporting him? Same for Rutherford in Vancouver?

You say you "don't expect shit" but your definition of success is quite binary with no allowance for the process or progress.

I don’t know how you can compare a GM who’s won the cup to a GM who hasn’t won shit. My definition of success has nothing to do with the conversation I was having, until you win, you aren’t a winner or are you a participation trophy kind of guy?

Tre could end up being a great GM, but that hasn’t happened yet has it?

Do me a favor, stop replying to my posts, you obviously don’t tolerate differing opinions……

 

[conFABulator]

I don’t know how you can compare a GM who’s won the cup to a GM who hasn’t won shit. My definition of success has nothing to do with the conversation I was having, until you win, you aren’t a winner or are you a participation trophy kind of guy?

Tre could end up being a great GM, but that hasn’t happened yet has it?

Do me a favor, stop replying to my posts, you obviously don’t tolerate differing opinions……

There are lots of people on here who don't agree with me that I more than "tolerate", I don't really know what you support and approve of, I do know that you don't like and disapprove of. You make that clear.

So I asked questions. You clarified somewhat and this is how discussion works. You place a lot value on people having won before, I assume that extends to our coach?

That's a genuine question. I don't know where you stand on Berube, but he has won before and I think he is a good and important addition to this team. In most of my posts I highlight him as the largest factor in this team possibly being different and better this year.

You can block me if you want but I see no reason for me to ignore your posts. Call me out for being rude or disrespectful anytime you want. I asked a couple of questions to try to understand your position better.

 

[rumman]

There are lots of people on here who don't agree with me that I more than "tolerate", I don't really know what you support and approve of, I do know that you don't like and disapprove of. You make that clear.

So I asked questions. You clarified somewhat and this is how discussion works. You place a lot value on people having won before, I assume that extends to our coach?

That's a genuine question. I don't know where you stand on Berube, but he has won before and I think he is a good and important addition to this team. In most of my posts I highlight him as the largest factor in this team possibly being different and better this year.

You can block me if you want but I see no reason for me to ignore your posts. Call me out for being rude or disrespectful anytime you want. I asked a couple of questions to try to understand your position better.

Until you’ve won your not a winner, I don’t think that’s just my take on the matter, it’s reality. Berube, imo is a good coach, whether he can get this core to buy in is the million dollar question, his job will depend on it and so will the team’s success.

I don’t self censor, regardless of how inane some takes are on this site, knowledge is power, even if it’s simply pointing out just how misguided some posters are…….

 

[conFABulator]

Until you’ve won your not a winner, I don’t think that’s just my take on the matter, it’s reality. Berube, imo is a good coach, whether he can get this core to buy in is the million dollar question, his job will depend on it and so will the team’s success.

I don’t self censor, regardless of how inane some takes are on this site, knowledge is power, even if it’s simply pointing out just how misguided some posters are…….

Thanks. i appreciate the depth in reply and not only do I understand now, I also agree.

Berube is a winner and that's in the plus column, but he is not a winner here until he wins here. No one has done that in 57 years. I like the hire, I was going to ask how long (how many years) the leash is for him? Do we give him three years? Two? I think if we haven't started being a winner in two years there will be larger changes that may or may not include a coach change. Our window isn't forever, but I do believe we are just entering it now. Yeah it took too long but at this point we have the best roster we have had in the Shanny era and star players in their prime.

Call me out if you think I am being argumentative, disrespectful or rude and I will let you know if anything from you seems too non-specifically grumpy for my liking.

 

[Leafs1991]

I don’t expect shit, the guy I was conversing with implied Tre has been successful thus far, which of course he hasn’t been…….

Wait, so if you don't expect anything how has Treliving been unsuccessful?

I am not saying he has been successful for the record, but to say he has failed at every regard is a massive exaggeration.

I don’t know how you can compare a GM who’s won the cup to a GM who hasn’t won shit. My definition of success has nothing to do with the conversation I was having, until you win, you aren’t a winner or are you a participation trophy kind of guy?

Tre could end up being a great GM, but that hasn’t happened yet has it?

Do me a favor, stop replying to my posts, you obviously don’t tolerate differing opinions……

He wasn't being rude to you. Having a discussion and questioning someone else's opinion doesn't mean that someone isn't tolerating or disrespecting it.

 

[notbias]

I don’t know how you can compare a GM who’s won the cup to a GM who hasn’t won shit. My definition of success has nothing to do with the conversation I was having, until you win, you aren’t a winner or are you a participation trophy kind of guy?

Tre could end up being a great GM, but that hasn’t happened yet has it?

Do me a favor, stop replying to my posts, you obviously don’t tolerate differing opinions……

Yzerman has won nothing if that is who you are referring too.

 

[rumman]

Yzerman has won nothing if that is who you are referring too.

Only a idiot would consider Yzerman anything but a winner if that’s what your referring to………

 

[notbias]

Only a idiot would consider Yzerman anything but a winner if that’s what your referring to………

you're*

His last season with Tampa was 0-4.

I'm not sure what winning you've seen him do at the GM level.

He definitely helped build the team, but he wasn't the winning GM.

 

[rumman]

you're*

His last season with Tampa was 0-4.

I'm not sure what winning you've seen him do at the GM level.

He definitely helped build the team, but he wasn't the winning GM.

Olympic gold genius……

 

[notbias]

Olympic gold genius……

Well, that is useless.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So, Yzerman is not successful in Detroit? I mean, so unsuccessful that the fans should stop supporting him? Same for Rutherford in Vancouver?

You say you "don't expect shit" but your definition of success is quite binary with no allowance for the process or progress.

I mean Yzerman has not been successful in Detroit, the man is going into year 6 and has yet to even make the playoffs if you are a GM and you can't even make the playoffs in 5 years you failed.

He's not going to get fired because nobody in Detroit is going to fire arguably the greatest red wing to ever live.

But if he were anyone else in any other sport he'd be gone because he has failed.

But He's not anyone else in any other sport, He's Steve Yzerman, He's GM of the Red Wings so nobody is going to fire him.

 

[Leafs1991]

Olympic gold genius……

Any GM could have won that. I'm starting to think you're a troll.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Olympic gold genius……

Anybody, literally ANYBODY could have won that gold and I do mean anybody, I could have won that gold

Putting together team Canada is not hard.

It's team Canada

 

[rumman]

Anybody, literally ANYBODY could have won that gold and I do mean anybody, I could have won that gold

Putting together team Canada is not hard.

It's team Canada

The discussion was are you a winner without winning, Yzerman definitely won gold as the GM of Team Canada, how easy that was is irrelevant to the conversation. Kills me how many here insist on changing the narrative to “win” a discussion………..

 

[ACC1224]

Anybody, literally ANYBODY could have won that gold and I do mean anybody, I could have won that gold

Putting together team Canada is not hard.

It's team Canada

Fun fact, Brad Treliving was the co-GM of Canada's 2016 World Championship Gold Medal Winning Team.

 

[conFABulator]

The discussion was are you a winner without winning, Yzerman definitely won gold as the GM of Team Canada, how easy that was is irrelevant to the conversation. Kills me how many here insist on changing the narrative to “win” a discussion………..

The Olympic Gold is a funny example because the job is not really the same as building an NHL franchise. It doesn't have am amateur draft, contract negotiations, salary caps, trades or many of the things that make up a big part of the NHL GMs job. It's a bit more like picking an all star team while having a lot of other qualified NHL leadershio on your staff.

I am not bashing Yzerman.

I often use him as an example when talking about Marner or Matthews and their inability to win the big games. Yzerman was in Detroit for 14 years before they won a cup. His scoring rates dropped more than the average player's did from regular season to playoffs. Eventually they surrounded Yzerman with so much talent they became a winner; talent like Fedorov, Larionov, Shanahan, Kozlov, Draper, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Murphy and Vernon. There was no salary cap back then.

Maybe that example makes the case for patience? Maybe it points out that Yzerman was not the winner he is remembered as.

Is Shanahan a winner? He has won cups and Olympics Gold as a player. Does that "winner pedigree" cross from player to GM? I think he is a winner.