rumman
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
- 15,292
- 11,714
Brad Treliving- 1st year complete.
- Thread starter ACC1224
- Start date
If he is traded, I will bet that he will either cry at his presser or have a love letter video about Toronto afterwards.
Mess
Global Moderator
Dubas was fired at beginning of season and Keefe was fired at the end and now we finally have competent management in place in both the GM and Coach chairs.
Also MLSE new CEO Keith Pelley has put Shanahan on blast, and decided the Core 4 forwards doesn't work and needs change.
Winning the Cup the new focus not selling Jersey's in Toronto.
So of course the season was a success in that regard. Everything in moving the right direction.
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Can you describe what competent management means and why you think the person who led Calgary to where they are is competent?
I don't think there is a chance even you can spin this.
Delusion is the only way someone can think last year was a success.
Racer88
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2020
- 11,324
- 11,283
ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
- Jan 26, 2012
- 4,698
- 2,642
If I am Brad - I am trying to change the culture. Country club days are over.
Marner traded - Dman + Cap savings
Rielly - for picks or a goalie.
Ask JT to waive and move him, with a handshake deal that we sign him next year as a bottom 6 player.
Benefit to JT
-He can finish his career in Toronto
-He helps the team in the short term
-It’s a nice way to give up captaincy without it being embarrassing.
Benefit to us:
We gain immediate cap space in a great UFA D year. I would honestly grab 4 of the available D, grab a 2C and get a goalie back in one of trades.
I still think JT can be a useful bottom 6 player with lowered expectations based on salary.
If he’s not interested - that’s fine too. We will shop with his cap space the following year. No problem.
Marner traded - Dman + Cap savings
Rielly - for picks or a goalie.
Ask JT to waive and move him, with a handshake deal that we sign him next year as a bottom 6 player.
Benefit to JT
-He can finish his career in Toronto
-He helps the team in the short term
-It’s a nice way to give up captaincy without it being embarrassing.
Benefit to us:
We gain immediate cap space in a great UFA D year. I would honestly grab 4 of the available D, grab a 2C and get a goalie back in one of trades.
I still think JT can be a useful bottom 6 player with lowered expectations based on salary.
If he’s not interested - that’s fine too. We will shop with his cap space the following year. No problem.
Mess
Global Moderator
Yup that was the starting point of the inherited mess that Treliving acquired and began with .. Call that ground Zero, for evaluating new GM forward. .
I loved what he did however in moving the Leafs away from a figure skating team to a real hockey team that hits and fights and plays the game the way it should.
BT additions like Tyler Bertuzzi ,Max Domi, Ryan Reaves, Connor Dewar and Dmen Simon Benoit, Joel Edmundson & Ilya Lyubushkin all play with bite and push back ability.
Leafs lead round #1 of this years playoffs in HITS, demonstrating that new physical nature of the BT area and with now former tough guy Craig Berube behind the bench that also loves big, heavy physical hockey things are really trending in the right direction. IMO
BT loves Big. mean and mobile Dman so I'm anticipating him to go hard after UFA like Nikita Zadorov, Chris Tanev, Brandon Montour, Brett Pesce and Sean Walker to build a new defense core.
- Oct 18, 2010
- 2,951
- 686
Leafs need to do a complete rebuild. These cancerous contracts will prevent them from doing any damage in the playoffs. What will happen instead is they will continue down this road and continue to milk the fans. Things are so backwards here that the best case scenario is players asking to be moved.
Can you answer the question I asked you above? Explain how Treliving is a competent GM using facts from his many years as a GM.
We lost in round 1, do you not care about winning?
Tyler Bertuzzi - bad
Max Domi - good
Ryan Reaves - benched
Connor Dewar - benched
Simon Benoit - good
Joel Edmundson - bad
Ilya Lyubushkin - good
Not a great record.
The team that led their series in hits during round one lost more than won, not a great metric for winning.
You listed one big, mean, and mobile D, Zadarov... no one else fits that description.
You've got to be trolling at this point.
I suspect he would blame the media or something for being the scapegoat.
So far so good, but it cant end with just a new coach.
Bolded was quite noticeable as the season went along.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Gilman out.
When did this happen?
He gave Shanny a verbal vote of support at the end of season press conference. They also didn't pledge to change the core - just that they're going to consider anything
As another poster said I hope there is significant change but Ill believe it when I see it.
Loved the additions of size to the backend. I think Benoit was the best pickup, and getting him locked in for three more years at a bargain price is outstanding. Lyubushkin and Edmunson were great deadline additions, didn't cost much and Lyubushkin in particular contributed well.
I hate that we had another year of shoestrings and hope in net. Results were predictably all over the map between injuries, amazing runs, and the worst implosion of a goalie I've ever seen. I very much hope we're not pinning our hopes on Woll and a backup like Broissoit next year.
I liked that we added sandpaper up front. Bertuzzi and Domi were terrible to start the year but played better as it went on. Reaves as well, though that contract will never really make sense. Domi is a keeper IMO. Klingberg was a good effort that didn't work out, but no real consequences.
Overpaid Nylander during an outrageous hot streak. Sigh... at least I still like Nylander.
This summer is where he'll really get to put his stamp on the team. He either trades Marner, or holds on to him and then likely overpays him. I also want him to strip the C from Tavares.
I hate that we had another year of shoestrings and hope in net. Results were predictably all over the map between injuries, amazing runs, and the worst implosion of a goalie I've ever seen. I very much hope we're not pinning our hopes on Woll and a backup like Broissoit next year.
I liked that we added sandpaper up front. Bertuzzi and Domi were terrible to start the year but played better as it went on. Reaves as well, though that contract will never really make sense. Domi is a keeper IMO. Klingberg was a good effort that didn't work out, but no real consequences.
Overpaid Nylander during an outrageous hot streak. Sigh... at least I still like Nylander.
This summer is where he'll really get to put his stamp on the team. He either trades Marner, or holds on to him and then likely overpays him. I also want him to strip the C from Tavares.
That’s the problem, if he owns up to his poor plays in the playoffs, he probably will retire as a Leafs.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 24,638
- 12,790
Rule number 1 when you are a core player and fail. It’s always your fault. If the media interviews Matthews, he tells them he needs to be better. If they interview Nylander, he tells them he needs to be better.
You don’t go off on scapegoat, shambles, right there, whatever. You have to own it.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
There may very well be. But I think it's far from a lock that some think it is.
The core change may just be Tavares walks and they double down on the big three. a lot of this comes down to Marners relationship with the team, something all of us on the outside don't have a lot of insight into
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 75,175
- 41,153
There is some amazing insight in the Marner thread. Real eye opening stuff.
keonsbitterness
Registered User
Pretty much the same for me. 2018-24 has been a non-stop sideways journey.
Mess spin can make you dizzy.
Despite the core four collectively producing more than they ever have, while taking up the lowest percentage of the cap that they ever have, and despite the team benefiting from the most internal graduates to the NHL since 2016-2017, we got worse in points, wins, regulation/OT wins, regulations wins, goal differential, and expected goal differential. Treliving failed his top priority last year to address the top-4 of our defense, with Muzzin lost to injury, Holl departing to UFA, and Brodie/Giordano facing potential declines. We shifted money from defense/goaltending to forward, when we should have done the opposite. And we didn't even get forwards that could help support our rookies and young influx. Treliving focused so heavily on "snot" and went to misguided and problematic targets that featured some of the worst defensive players in the league.
Our defensive results predictably dropped off, and we ended with the worst expected goals against in the Matthews era (and worst ranking in half a decade). Our goaltending also fell off, and mixed with the defense to produce the worst goals against of the Matthews era. We abandoned the PK, and our defensive results and goals against on the PK were also the worst of the Matthews era.
Offensively, we scored a bit more at 5v5 while generating less, and scored a bit less on the PP while generating more. More should have been expected with the shifting of cap to forward, the influx of cheap depth, and a career year for our collective core.
In the cheap, deep depth area, I think he's done okay. Benoit was a nice 6D find, even if he did kind of luck into it after waiving him. I like the Holmberg re-signing and the McMann re-signing. Jones gave us a stretch of good goaltending as a third stringer. Above that cheap mark, we've had some problems though, and this is not historically unusual for Treliving, so that gives me some worry for this offseason and beyond when longer-term decisions are being made.
Samsonov didn't turn out well, but I don't disagree with Treliving's choice to re-sign him after the year he had had. If anything, one could question his decision to stand pat on goaltending throughout the year and into the playoffs. Domi turned out alright for 1 year at 3m, though he did come as advertised in terms of his defense, consistency, and discipline, and a lot of consideration had to be given to sheltering him in the lineup. I like that we kept Matthews and Nylander, but if people were enraged about the previous contracts, I don't know how Treliving isn't torn to pieces for ones that are unquestionably worse. And if Treliving is going to flip flop and gut this core, not only is that a stupid decision, but it should have been Nylander before one of our two best players; especially if this was the cost to keep him.
Bertuzzi was bad. 5.5m for a 44 point pace in a top 6 role. He's the most expensive non-core forward we've had in the past 5 years, and he'd rank 13th in P/GP. Flubbed so many chances and prime shots. Zero defense and completely one-dimensional. Klingberg was horrible. Bad and broken down before he came. Massively overpaid. Bad while here despite massive sheltering. Injured, and never replaced. Reaves was horrible, and given a stupidly long contract for his age. Trading Lafferty was bad, especially within the context of replacing him with a worse, older, slower player. Kampf was overpaid, and signed despite not being given a lineup that he could be successful in.
We spent 6 draft picks and a prospect at the deadline, and didn't really get anybody that moved the needle. Instead, we essentially just cloned Benoit twice and had a limited, one-dimensional bottom pairing defenseman on every pairing; killing our transition ability from the back-end.
And for those that only care about outcomes in the playoffs, that was also worse than last year. There's some context to be had, just like every other year, but it's also not a great sign that our xGF% was the worst it's been in years, and our 5v5 xGF% and overall goal differential was the worst it's ever been. Even with Woll being spectacular and handing us two wins. And unlike past years, against a team that whimpered out in the next round.
Overall a really disappointing year, and it feels like an unnecessary waste of this core's prime. I am concerned about Treliving destroying this team, with the organization showing signs of returning to the short-sighted mistakes of the past. How ironic that in the mid-2000s, we needed the core to waive their trade protections to protect the future. Now, we need the core to hold strong on their clauses to protect the future of this team. I am also concerned about Treliving making long-term UFA signings. The damage was limited to one destroyed year last season, because most significant signings were 1 year deals (funny how the "mercenary" narrative hasn't come up in the last year all of a sudden, but I digress..). Treliving hasn't shown a great history of mid-tier UFA signings or proper handling of stars, and that is what we're looking at this offseason. They're also the things that can most easily derail a team.
Fingers crossed that year 2 is better. None of the 3 in management positions inspire much confidence, both from their actions as Leafs and their history. I'm cautiously optimistic about Berube, though it largely feels like they just made Keefe a scapegoat after re-signing him, to protect their own jobs. We do have some more promising prospects coming in this second wave, and continued growth of our graduates this past year. That's something to look forward to.
Our defensive results predictably dropped off, and we ended with the worst expected goals against in the Matthews era (and worst ranking in half a decade). Our goaltending also fell off, and mixed with the defense to produce the worst goals against of the Matthews era. We abandoned the PK, and our defensive results and goals against on the PK were also the worst of the Matthews era.
Offensively, we scored a bit more at 5v5 while generating less, and scored a bit less on the PP while generating more. More should have been expected with the shifting of cap to forward, the influx of cheap depth, and a career year for our collective core.
In the cheap, deep depth area, I think he's done okay. Benoit was a nice 6D find, even if he did kind of luck into it after waiving him. I like the Holmberg re-signing and the McMann re-signing. Jones gave us a stretch of good goaltending as a third stringer. Above that cheap mark, we've had some problems though, and this is not historically unusual for Treliving, so that gives me some worry for this offseason and beyond when longer-term decisions are being made.
Samsonov didn't turn out well, but I don't disagree with Treliving's choice to re-sign him after the year he had had. If anything, one could question his decision to stand pat on goaltending throughout the year and into the playoffs. Domi turned out alright for 1 year at 3m, though he did come as advertised in terms of his defense, consistency, and discipline, and a lot of consideration had to be given to sheltering him in the lineup. I like that we kept Matthews and Nylander, but if people were enraged about the previous contracts, I don't know how Treliving isn't torn to pieces for ones that are unquestionably worse. And if Treliving is going to flip flop and gut this core, not only is that a stupid decision, but it should have been Nylander before one of our two best players; especially if this was the cost to keep him.
Bertuzzi was bad. 5.5m for a 44 point pace in a top 6 role. He's the most expensive non-core forward we've had in the past 5 years, and he'd rank 13th in P/GP. Flubbed so many chances and prime shots. Zero defense and completely one-dimensional. Klingberg was horrible. Bad and broken down before he came. Massively overpaid. Bad while here despite massive sheltering. Injured, and never replaced. Reaves was horrible, and given a stupidly long contract for his age. Trading Lafferty was bad, especially within the context of replacing him with a worse, older, slower player. Kampf was overpaid, and signed despite not being given a lineup that he could be successful in.
We spent 6 draft picks and a prospect at the deadline, and didn't really get anybody that moved the needle. Instead, we essentially just cloned Benoit twice and had a limited, one-dimensional bottom pairing defenseman on every pairing; killing our transition ability from the back-end.
And for those that only care about outcomes in the playoffs, that was also worse than last year. There's some context to be had, just like every other year, but it's also not a great sign that our xGF% was the worst it's been in years, and our 5v5 xGF% and overall goal differential was the worst it's ever been. Even with Woll being spectacular and handing us two wins. And unlike past years, against a team that whimpered out in the next round.
Overall a really disappointing year, and it feels like an unnecessary waste of this core's prime. I am concerned about Treliving destroying this team, with the organization showing signs of returning to the short-sighted mistakes of the past. How ironic that in the mid-2000s, we needed the core to waive their trade protections to protect the future. Now, we need the core to hold strong on their clauses to protect the future of this team. I am also concerned about Treliving making long-term UFA signings. The damage was limited to one destroyed year last season, because most significant signings were 1 year deals (funny how the "mercenary" narrative hasn't come up in the last year all of a sudden, but I digress..). Treliving hasn't shown a great history of mid-tier UFA signings or proper handling of stars, and that is what we're looking at this offseason. They're also the things that can most easily derail a team.
Fingers crossed that year 2 is better. None of the 3 in management positions inspire much confidence, both from their actions as Leafs and their history. I'm cautiously optimistic about Berube, though it largely feels like they just made Keefe a scapegoat after re-signing him, to protect their own jobs. We do have some more promising prospects coming in this second wave, and continued growth of our graduates this past year. That's something to look forward to.
Just quoting because this is such a well reasoned post. I think it's time to move on from the core and am willing to assume the risks it comes with, but we need a lot better moves than we saw last year. It felt like a step backwards for the team overall
I think a lot of players didn’t play as well as the year before too.
TJ, Sammy and JT. Esp JT and Sammy.
MM also didn’t play as well as the season before too.
Lastly, as I stated months ago, last year playoffs team is the best Leafs team in the cap era on paper and it is going to be hard beat. They are also the most successful team due to making the 2nd round.
Some certainly did regress, but that's why you want to bake in some options. We also had guys with career years like AM and Willy.
Our roster lacked versatility and cohesion.
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