Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

Halak Ness Monster

Registered User
Nov 11, 2010
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St. Louis, MO
If a PMD would work, we'd give the spot to Redden or Russell and be done with it for a fraction of the cost.

There is a difference between being a great PMD like Yandle and Kulikov and being a declining 35 year old with poor mobility and zero physical side(Redden) and being a small, turnover machine who also has zero physical side and has just 13 points in his last 71 games(Russell).

Redden and Russell aren't close to most of the names on that list. The only thing they have in common with guys like Yandle and Kulikov is absolutely nothing.
 

ExJbeck

Registered User
Jul 29, 2012
1,423
7
There is a difference between being a great PMD like Yandle and Kulikov and being a declining 35 year old with poor mobility and zero physical side(Redden) and being a small, turnover machine who also has zero physical side and has just 13 points in his last 71 games(Russell).

Redden and Russell aren't close to most of the names on that list. The only thing they have in common with guys like Yandle and Kulikov is absolutely nothing.
Since you said what I wanted to, I'd add that the puck moving part hasn't even been the problem with Redden. Redden just makes costly mental errors. Russell partially, but I think a lot of it has to do with his skating because he hasn't been as quick to the puck as he used to be.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,341
6,308
Only player on that list I'd be interested in is Ladislav Smid.

The Blues need a defensive rock with some size and an edge, not another PMD.
If a PMD would work, we'd give the spot to Redden or Russell and be done with it for a fraction of the cost.

It's not working, which is why we're having to force Ian Cole into the spot. Cole's defense has been fairly shakey, but it's better than Russell or Redden's.

People really need to start looking at the playing style of these guys and quit throwing names around. The Blues have a very specific need on the blueline and simply getting a "big name" won't cut it.

While I agree that a defensive stalwart is ideal, I fail to see how Russell or Redden should serve as evidence to support that claim.

A PMD could work if their defensive side of the game was solid enough. Redden and Russell in no way fit that equation.
 

PocketNines

Cutter's Way
Apr 29, 2004
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What is the general consensus on the defenseman we should go after to partner Pietrangelo?

Kulikov
Orlov
Šmíd
Yandle
Gormley
Després
Morrow

Someone else?

Giordano has been mentioned frequently. One of the top three Ranger guys (but not Del Zotto). I might be interested in Brodin but haven't seen him play much this year for the Wild. Vlasic would be great to have. There are lots of guys who will never move who'd be great (Carlson, Alzner).
 

VancouverCanuck

Vancouver's Finest
Oct 31, 2010
166
1
Vancouver
www.canucks.com
Jaden Schwartz...........

Hey Guys,

I just wanted some feed back on Schwartz....

What do you think his future will be like? Upside? 1st, 2nd, 3rd liner?

Also, when will he become in to full form NHLer?

Any feed back is appreciated... thanks! :yo:
 

EastonBlues22

Registered User
Nov 25, 2003
14,807
10,496
RIP Fugu ϶(°o°)ϵ
Hey Guys,

I just wanted some feed back on Schwartz....

What do you think his future will be like? Upside? 1st, 2nd, 3rd liner?

Also, when will he become in to full form NHLer?

Any feed back is appreciated... thanks! :yo:
I think he'll be a 1st/2nd line tweener who will reach full form in 2-4 years.

(Merged because there was a similar Schwartz question recently asked in here already.)
 

Captain Creampuff

Registered User
Sep 10, 2012
10,969
1,816
What do you think it would take for Despres? We are stacked on the wing and have quite a few good wing prospects. I know Pitts could use wingers other than Neal and Kunitz.
 

PocketNines

Cutter's Way
Apr 29, 2004
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5,962
Badlands
They came into this season with a glaring hole at #2 defense (left side). Same glaring hole that's been there for 2 calendar years now. They didn't address it, hoping Pietrangelo would be so good again that he could cover for his partner. Well, 21 games into the season and not only is the lack of a #2 GLARING but Pietrangelo is actually not capable of carrying anyone right now, as there are plenty of flaws in his own game.

They also came into the season with a hole at center. They only have two centers and a bunch of ill-fitting hodgepodge there. They didn't address this need and instead tried to shove round peg Steen into square hole center. Now they are considering – out of total desperation – bringing back Arnott for the third line center role.

So basically they had two needs to fill, filled neither, and some of the players in spots that werent holes are playing below expectations, in some cases well below.

They do need a #2, and have needed that guy since the 10-11 season. Just because you're a poster tired of hearing it doesn't make the need any less. They tried to throw a lot of money at Matt Carle (Matt Carle!! holy ****!!) the need was so glaring.
 

542365

2018-19 Cup Champs!
Mar 22, 2012
22,540
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The guy that we want is going to have to come from within the organization or through trade. I don't think there's any chance we outbid for a #2 LHD in Free Agency. Cole is probably the closest thing we have for a potential fit, but that would require him to play beyond expectations. Other guys like Edmondson, Hakanpaa, Schmaltz etc. may have an outside shot, but that seems like quite a stretch at this point. I can't see Armstrong going into next season without acquiring a solid partner for Petro. Redden, Russel, Jackman, and Cole are simply not top pairing quality.
 

OCTA8ON*

Guest
The guy that we want is going to have to come from within the organization or through trade. I don't think there's any chance we outbid for a #2 LHD in Free Agency. Cole is probably the closest thing we have for a potential fit, but that would require him to play beyond expectations. Other guys like Edmondson, Hakanpaa, Schmaltz etc. may have an outside shot, but that seems like quite a stretch at this point. I can't see Armstrong going into next season without acquiring a solid partner for Petro. Redden, Russel, Jackman, and Cole are simply not top pairing quality.

The Blues don't have the time to wait for those prospects to blossom and develop. We just drafted Schmaltz. The Blues aren't up for rebuilding at this stage. Armstrong is most likely trying to make a good trade for a partner for Petro, but he isn't going to make a rash decision about it either. It's a careful one because it's probably going to be long term.

He is also probably working towards getting another center. Just because he didn't fill in these holes during the off season doesn't mean he didn't attempt to. Sometimes getting that defensemen you're looking for simply isn't available, and GMs need to be patient before they pull the trigger on these types of trades. Something tells me he makes a trade before the trade deadline though.
 

BadgersandBlues

Registered User
Jun 6, 2011
1,893
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They came into this season with a glaring hole at #2 defense (left side). Same glaring hole that's been there for 2 calendar years now. They didn't address it, hoping Pietrangelo would be so good again that he could cover for his partner. Well, 21 games into the season and not only is the lack of a #2 GLARING but Pietrangelo is actually not capable of carrying anyone right now, as there are plenty of flaws in his own game.

They also came into the season with a hole at center. They only have two centers and a bunch of ill-fitting hodgepodge there. They didn't address this need and instead tried to shove round peg Steen into square hole center. Now they are considering – out of total desperation – bringing back Arnott for the third line center role.

So basically they had two needs to fill, filled neither, and some of the players in spots that weren't holes are playing below expectations, in some cases well below.

They do need a #2, and have needed that guy since the 10-11 season. Just because you're a poster tired of hearing it doesn't make the need any less. They tried to throw a lot of money at Matt Carle (Matt Carle!! holy ****!!) the need was so glaring.

This is the point I was trying to make in the GDT thread today. It's not like this need has appeared out of nowhere. We've known for over two years that we need a third solid D-man. (I would call it our #3, I think AP/Shatty can easily be #1/#2) Last year in the playoffs it became even more brutally obvious. I could understand going into last year we thought we could fill it internally with Cole/Cola or whatever, but halfway into that season, and ESPECIALLY going into this season, there is no excuse we didn't get something done.

Before anyone goes, oh no, I don't think there's anything we could have done, I want to point straight to Johnny Oduya. He makes Barret Jackman money and is a better overall player. He was acquired for a second and a third. You're telling me we couldn't have matched that deal? Wasn't there a whole bunch of talk at the trade deadline last year that we could take on salary if the right player became available? Since Oduya got traded to the Hawks, they've gone 31-2-7. He absolutely solidified their D-core, which has generally the same make-up as ours. (I would actually argue that Jackman/Polak/Cole would be superior to Leddy/Hjalmarsson/Rosival[whom we also passed on and has played very well this year])Clearly he's not the only reason they have had this historic start and all that, but even if you only look at last year the Hawks went 12-2-4 once he arrived.

I guess in short, I'm having trouble believing there's not a Johnny Oduya out there for us, even if we have to burn a first round pick to get him. He's the type of player we need, not an OEL or Kulikov, which also leads to my frustration, b/c I feel like it shouldn't be this hard (2 years running!) to identify and acquire a player like him.

A few final thoughts:

I'm wondering if some of the contract extensions aren't on the back of some of our players minds, especially AP. I just can't understand how someone who looked so amazing last year, whom I told everyone and their mother about using superlatives like potential future Hall of Famer, can be this average. He was burned twice today, once by making a bad decision on a rush that led to a goal 20-30 seconds later (already pointed out in GDT) and also on the PP goal from Jagr. He was completely guessing what Roy was doing behind the net and Roy made him look silly.

I also think that this road trip will spell the fate of our season. If we come out of this with a 4-0 or 3-1 record and we dominate games, I think we still have a chance. If we go 2-2 or worse and look flat, I think it's time to punt on the season. Let's get our RFAs signed up, let's identify who we want for next year to fill the holes we're going to have, let's make all the effort we can to make the playoffs, but really, let's make sure that next year we don't go into the season citing the same holes we have for the last 2-3 years.
 

2 Minute Minor

Hi Keeba!
Jun 3, 2008
15,615
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Temple, Texas
They came into this season with a glaring hole at #2 defense (left side). Same glaring hole that's been there for 2 calendar years now. They didn't address it, hoping Pietrangelo would be so good again that he could cover for his partner. Well, 21 games into the season and not only is the lack of a #2 GLARING but Pietrangelo is actually not capable of carrying anyone right now, as there are plenty of flaws in his own game.

They also came into the season with a hole at center. They only have two centers and a bunch of ill-fitting hodgepodge there. They didn't address this need and instead tried to shove round peg Steen into square hole center. Now they are considering – out of total desperation – bringing back Arnott for the third line center role.

So basically they had two needs to fill, filled neither, and some of the players in spots that werent holes are playing below expectations, in some cases well below.

They do need a #2, and have needed that guy since the 10-11 season. Just because you're a poster tired of hearing it doesn't make the need any less. They tried to throw a lot of money at Matt Carle (Matt Carle!! holy ****!!) the need was so glaring.

This is a pretty accurate assessment of how I see things. I also think the work stoppage hurt the Blues ability to address these needs (that and the team budget taking them out of the bidding for the UFA guys that might have filled those spots well).

The team has assets to spend, and its clear Armstrong is working hard to try and find the right deal. I applaud him for not panicking and making the wrong trade (dealing assets for a guy that isn't really the answer), but you'd also like to see the roster come together better than this.

Does Colaiacovo maybe deserve a bit more respect? (I know its saying a lot, but a HEALTHY Cola would be pretty welcome on the team just now.)
 

OCTA8ON*

Guest
This is the point I was trying to make in the GDT thread today. It's not like this need has appeared out of nowhere. We've known for over two years that we need a third solid D-man. (I would call it our #3, I think AP/Shatty can easily be #1/#2) Last year in the playoffs it became even more brutally obvious. I could understand going into last year we thought we could fill it internally with Cole/Cola or whatever, but halfway into that season, and ESPECIALLY going into this season, there is no excuse we didn't get something done.

Before anyone goes, oh no, I don't think there's anything we could have done, I want to point straight to Johnny Oduya. He makes Barret Jackman money and is a better overall player. He was acquired for a second and a third. You're telling me we couldn't have matched that deal? Wasn't there a whole bunch of talk at the trade deadline last year that we could take on salary if the right player became available? Since Oduya got traded to the Hawks, they've gone 31-2-7. He absolutely solidified their D-core, which has generally the same make-up as ours. (I would actually argue that Jackman/Polak/Cole would be superior to Leddy/Hjalmarsson/Rosival[whom we also passed on and has played very well this year])Clearly he's not the only reason they have had this historic start and all that, but even if you only look at last year the Hawks went 12-2-4 once he arrived.

I guess in short, I'm having trouble believing there's not a Johnny Oduya out there for us, even if we have to burn a first round pick to get him. He's the type of player we need, not an OEL or Kulikov, which also leads to my frustration, b/c I feel like it shouldn't be this hard (2 years running!) to identify and acquire a player like him.

A few final thoughts:

I'm wondering if some of the contract extensions aren't on the back of some of our players minds, especially AP. I just can't understand how someone who looked so amazing last year, whom I told everyone and their mother about using superlatives like potential future Hall of Famer, can be this average. He was burned twice today, once by making a bad decision on a rush that led to a goal 20-30 seconds later (already pointed out in GDT) and also on the PP goal from Jagr. He was completely guessing what Roy was doing behind the net and Roy made him look silly.

I also think that this road trip will spell the fate of our season. If we come out of this with a 4-0 or 3-1 record and we dominate games, I think we still have a chance. If we go 2-2 or worse and look flat, I think it's time to punt on the season. Let's get our RFAs signed up, let's identify who we want for next year to fill the holes we're going to have, let's make all the effort we can to make the playoffs, but really, let's make sure that next year we don't go into the season citing the same holes we have for the last 2-3 years.


Army looked for a partner. You're purely speculating regarding what the trade and contract situations were regarding other players and GMs around the league. Maybe there was a possibility to get one, but Army obviously wasn't going to risk getting the wrong partner or over spending which would have been the only option if there wasn't one on the market. Give Army the benefit of the doubt. He won GM of the year last year for a reason, and he is probably making a million phone calls to other GMs in order get that defenseman as well as that center. Just have some faith.
 

PocketNines

Cutter's Way
Apr 29, 2004
13,875
5,962
Badlands
This is the point I was trying to make in the GDT thread today. It's not like this need has appeared out of nowhere. We've known for over two years that we need a third solid D-man. (I would call it our #3, I think AP/Shatty can easily be #1/#2) Last year in the playoffs it became even more brutally obvious. I could understand going into last year we thought we could fill it internally with Cole/Cola or whatever, but halfway into that season, and ESPECIALLY going into this season, there is no excuse we didn't get something done.

Before anyone goes, oh no, I don't think there's anything we could have done, I want to point straight to Johnny Oduya. He makes Barret Jackman money and is a better overall player. He was acquired for a second and a third. You're telling me we couldn't have matched that deal? Wasn't there a whole bunch of talk at the trade deadline last year that we could take on salary if the right player became available? Since Oduya got traded to the Hawks, they've gone 31-2-7. He absolutely solidified their D-core, which has generally the same make-up as ours. (I would actually argue that Jackman/Polak/Cole would be superior to Leddy/Hjalmarsson/Rosival[whom we also passed on and has played very well this year])Clearly he's not the only reason they have had this historic start and all that, but even if you only look at last year the Hawks went 12-2-4 once he arrived.

I guess in short, I'm having trouble believing there's not a Johnny Oduya out there for us, even if we have to burn a first round pick to get him. He's the type of player we need, not an OEL or Kulikov, which also leads to my frustration, b/c I feel like it shouldn't be this hard (2 years running!) to identify and acquire a player like him.

A few final thoughts:

I'm wondering if some of the contract extensions aren't on the back of some of our players minds, especially AP. I just can't understand how someone who looked so amazing last year, whom I told everyone and their mother about using superlatives like potential future Hall of Famer, can be this average. He was burned twice today, once by making a bad decision on a rush that led to a goal 20-30 seconds later (already pointed out in GDT) and also on the PP goal from Jagr. He was completely guessing what Roy was doing behind the net and Roy made him look silly.

I also think that this road trip will spell the fate of our season. If we come out of this with a 4-0 or 3-1 record and we dominate games, I think we still have a chance. If we go 2-2 or worse and look flat, I think it's time to punt on the season. Let's get our RFAs signed up, let's identify who we want for next year to fill the holes we're going to have, let's make all the effort we can to make the playoffs, but really, let's make sure that next year we don't go into the season citing the same holes we have for the last 2-3 years.

I haven't focused on Oduya much specifically this year, but I do remember watching him last year after that trade and not being overly impressed. When the Hawks re-signed him it certainly didn't bother me. There's also probably a lot more going on than Oduya having a good year over there. They're all having a good year at the same time.

That specific example aside, we're on the same page when it comes to the larger argument of needing a piece. If Player X is acquired and when he's acquired he doesn't seem like a big solution but then you get Beauchemin-style performance out of him, then the GM looks like a genius. If you get a big name and he's an underperformer and you paid a lot to get him, the GM looks like an idiot. Of course, both go the other way too.

On your last point, I'm not sure the next four games make or break the season. I think the team gelling on the road against tough opponents and outworking those teams to win games ... yeah, that would really be a big season spark. But if they continue on another four games like they've been playing and go 2-2 or 1-2-1 I still don't think it means they won't get into the playoffs. This team has to have some home date playoff revenue. HAS TO.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
This is the point I was trying to make in the GDT thread today. It's not like this need has appeared out of nowhere. We've known for over two years that we need a third solid D-man. (I would call it our #3, I think AP/Shatty can easily be #1/#2) Last year in the playoffs it became even more brutally obvious. I could understand going into last year we thought we could fill it internally with Cole/Cola or whatever, but halfway into that season, and ESPECIALLY going into this season, there is no excuse we didn't get something done.

Before anyone goes, oh no, I don't think there's anything we could have done, I want to point straight to Johnny Oduya. He makes Barret Jackman money and is a better overall player. He was acquired for a second and a third. You're telling me we couldn't have matched that deal? Wasn't there a whole bunch of talk at the trade deadline last year that we could take on salary if the right player became available? Since Oduya got traded to the Hawks, they've gone 31-2-7. He absolutely solidified their D-core, which has generally the same make-up as ours. (I would actually argue that Jackman/Polak/Cole would be superior to Leddy/Hjalmarsson/Rosival[whom we also passed on and has played very well this year])Clearly he's not the only reason they have had this historic start and all that, but even if you only look at last year the Hawks went 12-2-4 once he arrived.

I guess in short, I'm having trouble believing there's not a Johnny Oduya out there for us, even if we have to burn a first round pick to get him. He's the type of player we need, not an OEL or Kulikov, which also leads to my frustration, b/c I feel like it shouldn't be this hard (2 years running!) to identify and acquire a player like him.

A few final thoughts:

I'm wondering if some of the contract extensions aren't on the back of some of our players minds, especially AP. I just can't understand how someone who looked so amazing last year, whom I told everyone and their mother about using superlatives like potential future Hall of Famer, can be this average. He was burned twice today, once by making a bad decision on a rush that led to a goal 20-30 seconds later (already pointed out in GDT) and also on the PP goal from Jagr. He was completely guessing what Roy was doing behind the net and Roy made him look silly.

I also think that this road trip will spell the fate of our season. If we come out of this with a 4-0 or 3-1 record and we dominate games, I think we still have a chance. If we go 2-2 or worse and look flat, I think it's time to punt on the season. Let's get our RFAs signed up, let's identify who we want for next year to fill the holes we're going to have, let's make all the effort we can to make the playoffs, but really, let's make sure that next year we don't go into the season citing the same holes we have for the last 2-3 years.

Not having that Oduya stuff. He might be playing out of his skin right now (not watched the 'Hawks outside of our games), but if you were saying he was a better player than Jackman in his career up until last season then you were in a very small minority. A lot of 'Hawks fans thought the 2nd & 3rd was an overpayment and most didn't like the contract extension to put it mildly.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes and how many players we have identified and tried to acquire. Finding the right player without significantly overpaying is the most important factor here.

As for the next 4 games, they don't define the season at all. Tough road stand with 3 key players out and even if we lost all 4 games we'd be just outside of the playoffs with a little under half the season to go.

We have a lot of issues that need addressed, but it isn't time to be panicking.
 

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