Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

[bleedblue1223]

If we really are interested in Kulemin, then maybe that is a trade to setup a Perron trade and bumping Schwartz up into the top 6.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think highly of Schwartz, perhaps as much as anyone here, but I feel like asking him to fill a top 6 role in the playoffs is asking too much of him at this stage in the game. Physically, he's just not ready yet.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think highly of Schwartz, perhaps as much as anyone here, but I feel like asking him to fill a top 6 role in the playoffs is asking too much of him at this stage in the game. Physically, he's just not ready yet.

He would get physically dominated, but theoretically Kulemin could fill the role that Steen played with Backes and Oshie and that could be the shutdown line.

 

[TheOrganist]

Definitely not a good example. DeWitt spent loads of money(smart money) before 2005:
-In 1995, he spent a ton of money to renovate Busch Stadium 2.

-In the 95-96 offseason, DeWitt had Walt Jocketty also renovate the roster by signing/acquiring Andy Benes, Ron Gant, Dennis Eckersley, Todd Stottlemyre, Gary Gaetti and Tony LaRussa.

-In 1997 he acquired Mark McGwire then signed him to a 3 year, 28.5 mil extension with a 4th year option for 10 mil. His contract made him the 4th highest paid player in 1998. McGwire was then signed to a 2 year, 30 mil extension before the 2001 season.

-In 2000 he traded for Jim Edmonds then signed him to a 6 year, 57 mil extension.

-He also acquired Darryl Kile and signed him to a 3 year, 23 mil extension.That was in addition to bringing in Edmonds, Fernado Vina, Pat Hentgen, Andy Benes, and Dave Veres.

-In 2002 he traded for Scott Rolen who turned down a 10 year, 140 million extension from Philadelphia. DeWitt would sign Rolen for 8 years, 90 million.

-Before the 2004 season, he inked Albert Pujols to an 8 year,116 mil extension buying out his cheaper arbitration years and first five years off free agency.

DeWitt has been one of the best owners in all of sports. He spends money on the right players. Hence why you are hearing rumors that he has Mozeliak looking at Troy Tulowitzki and his 140 mil contract.

He did spend to retain the core of the team (like the Blues will this offseason) as he should have but there was a time when Strauss and Miklasz gave the guy a lot of deserved heat for never increasing the payroll above a certain threshold to get that final piece or two the team needed in those days to get over the hump of just making the playoffs and winning the divisional round. The name of the game back then was "low hanging fruit" of the Rick White's and Jeff Weaver's, the reclamation projects that could be had on the cheap, the second tier free agents like Juan Encarnacion, and the cheaper money given to guys with huge risks like Mulder because it was more affordable.

(What he deserves immense credit for (and yes, he is a very smart businessman) was his bold move and keen foresight to overhaul the development and minor league arm of the franchise because he realized the status quo wasn't sustainable. The Cardinals, much like the Blues, needed to be a self-sustaining franchise that cranked out cost-controlled players because they couldn't afford the increasingly exorbitant market prices of the impact players.)

 

[Alklha]

If we really are interested in Kulemin, then maybe that is a trade to setup a Perron trade and bumping Schwartz up into the top 6.

I think Kulemin would be great here, I think he perfectly fits our game and we'd see a really good offensive return from him as well (20g/50p maybe). I don't think we'd pay the price the Leafs would likely want for him though. Wouldn't move Stewart, Perron or Schwartz for him.

When it comes to Stewart or Perron, we are looking at it too black and white I think. There will be an internal preference over who we would like to retain, but if we identify a player we want and offer Stewart, I don't think it would be a deal-breaker if they wanted to restructure the deal around Perron. Ultimately it will largely come down to the other team unless we deem one to be significantly more valuable to us.

I think highly of Schwartz, perhaps as much as anyone here, but I feel like asking him to fill a top 6 role in the playoffs is asking too much of him at this stage in the game. Physically, he's just not ready yet.

I agree, but if Arnott/another C was signed we could see a Steen-Backes-Oshie top line with Schwartz down the lineup.

 

[EastonBlues22]

He would get physically dominated, but theoretically Kulemin could fill the role that Steen played with Backes and Oshie and that could be the shutdown line.

IMO, if Schwartz is playing more than 10-12 minutes a game in the playoffs, we'll be asking too much of him.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

The problem is that everyone is inconsistent.

Perron had a good game yesterday and scored a really nice goal so now Stewart is the one that should be moved and not Perron.

A week from now we may be asking if Perron has even played the last few games and why he is on the team.

Oshie will display some amazing offensive skill for 4-5 games then completely disappear offensively for a few games.

Berglund looks like a slug out there most games and is as soft as can be but as soon as you say "trade him for a #1 center", he goes out and scores 9 goals to start the year. He has since disappeared but I have no doubt he'll score 3-4 goals in 2 games once the trade chatter starts back up.

Armstrong is just going to have to sit down with Hitchcock and his other hockey people and make a tough call. Every player brings something we need but also lacks something we need.

 

[542365]

Stewart is definitely more likely to be moved than Perron. I admire Stewie's toughness, and I recognize what he brings to the team, but Perron is a supremely talented player on a great contract that is locked up long term, whereas Stewart has this season, and then is a pretty big question mark. Combine that with the fact that Perron brings something that nobody else on the team(the dangles to turn water into wine) and that he's a home grown guy that many fans(myself included) love watching him play. Stewart brings size and toughness, but that can be found in a much cheaper player. There aren't many players that are as skilled as David Perron is with the puck.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Combine that with the fact that Perron brings something that nobody else on the team(the dangles to turn water into wine) and that he's a home grown guy that many fans(myself included) love watching him play.

The fact that Perron is home grown will mean little to Armstrong.

Armstrong acquired Stewart for Erik Johnson. He is going to feel more strongly about keeping/trading one of the key pieces he coveted for his "franchise" d-man.

 

[EastonBlues22]

It's tough to say that one of Perron or Stewart is more likely to go than the other.

Perron has arguably the best puck skills and the best ability to generate his own offense on the team. He's also the worst at playing within the team's offensive philosophy. Having a reasonable contract in place is a boon in his favor, but it also makes him a more valuable trade commodity.

We can only speculate how the team weighs those things against each other right now.

 

[Hooliganx3]

It's tough to say that one of Perron or Stewart is more likely to go than the other.

Perron has arguably the best puck skills and the best ability to generate his own offense on the team. He's also the worst at playing within the team's offensive philosophy. Having a reasonable contract in place is a boon in his favor, but it also makes him a more valuable trade commodity.

We can only speculate how the team weighs those things against each other right now.

I'm not sold on us trading either. AMac and Steen both have serious issues staying healthy and it would be foolish to count on either one staying healthy in a 82 game season.

 

[DatDude44]

Am i the only one "happy" thinking about kulemin-backes-oshie line?

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Am i the only one "happy" thinking about kulemin-backes-oshie line?

Probably. Especially since that would possibly considered our top line because Backes is our #1 center. That is an awful top line for a team with Cup dreams. Compare it to the other contender's top lines. Yikes.

Kulemin is just another underachieving winger. 40 points in his last 92 games after a 57 point season in 10-11.

Pass.

 

[SunDin]

Get any of the Staals from Carolina or Getzlaf for Amac (Just dreaming)

 

[Mike Liut]

Fighting isn't the end all, but you better have a few guys who are good at it. And without Stewart, the Blues would be sorely hurting in that department. The Blues have WAY too many guys who don't fight at all. Amac, Perron, Shatty, Petro, Berglund, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Russell, Steen, Oshie (ok, 1 fight, lol). That's too many guys who can't fight. You need more guys who can handle themselves. Trading Stewart would be a big blow to the team toughness.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Fighting isn't the end all, but you better have a few guys who are good at it. And without Stewart, the Blues would be sorely hurting in that department. The Blues have WAY too many guys who don't fight at all. Amac, Perron, Shatty, Petro, Berglund, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Russell, Steen, Oshie (ok, 1 fight, lol). That's too many guys who can't fight. You need more guys who can handle themselves. Trading Stewart would be a big blow to the team toughness.

Yep. Especially since Backes and Jackman have an aversion to fighting. Jackman for health reasons IIRC. Plus we can't afford to have him in the penalty box for 5 minutes.

Backes...I don't know why. I think it might have something to do with the C and him not wanting to have to lead from the penalty box. He has only fought 1 time since getting the C. He fought 13 teams in the three seasons before he became captain. Overall he has become a softer, but still tough, player since becoming captain. Anyone remember his rampage on team Canada players before the 2010 Olympics began? I'd love to see that side of him again.

 

[bleedblue1223]

IMO, if Schwartz is playing more than 10-12 minutes a game in the playoffs, we'll be asking too much of him.

Agreed, and that's what he'd get on the 3rd line like he was earlier in the season with Sobotka getting shifts as well.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Am i the only one with a boner thinking about kulemin-backes-oshie line?

Yep. It's a great shutdown line, but it's at best as good as Steen-Backes-Oshie.

 

[DatDude44]

Probably. Especially since that would possibly considered our top line because Backes is our #1 center. That is an awful top line for a team with Cup dreams. Compare it to the other contender's top lines. Yikes.

Kulemin is just another underachieving winger. 40 points in his last 92 games after a 57 point season in 10-11.

Pass.

it's a shutdown line that can score at a quality 2nd line rate

 

[BlueOil]

The problem is that everyone is inconsistent.

Perron had a good game yesterday and scored a really nice goal so now Stewart is the one that should be moved and not Perron.

A week from now we may be asking if Perron has even played the last few games and why he is on the team.

Oshie will display some amazing offensive skill for 4-5 games then completely disappear offensively for a few games.

Berglund looks like a slug out there most games and is as soft as can be but as soon as you say "trade him for a #1 center", he goes out and scores 9 goals to start the year. He has since disappeared but I have no doubt he'll score 3-4 goals in 2 games once the trade chatter starts back up.

Armstrong is just going to have to sit down with Hitchcock and his other hockey people and make a tough call. Every player brings something we need but also lacks something we need.

I think it's time you took this one step farther, we have players that are not only inconsistent game to game, but period to period.

Some players like Berglund, disappear for games. Others like Perron show up for a period at a time then return to status quo. Some players like Oshie are turning in a decent shift night in and night out with all around play, but aren't able to shine offensively regularly.

The forwards are not on the same page often.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

it's a shutdown line that can score at a quality 2nd line rate

We'd have to get a true #1 center to pair with Perron or Tarasenko for me to be excited about that line.

We still lack a game changing forward line that almost every top contender has.

 

[bleedblue1223]

it's a shutdown line that can score at a quality 2nd line rate

Depends on if Kulemin can regain his goalscoring form. If he could rebound here, then yes it would be great, if not, then it's not that special.

 

[DatDude44]

Um, yes? Probably the only one with "a boner."

I've liked kulemin for three years now, so i have some bias when looking at him compared to other guys of the same caliber/ type. So hearing about him possibly coming here makes me very happy. Even though I know we need a centerman and i definitely think it would take more than just kulemin for schwartz. Basically, its not a player that would help out our team needs, but a guy that if acquired makes me happy.

i just could really see him meshin well with oshie and backes. then we could perron with bergy and tarasenko eventually... then mcdonald-steen-stewart i guess.

 

[bleedblue1223]

According to JR's tweets it sounds like Army is more likely to trade futures than roster pieces.

So that probably rules out Perron and Stewart, which makes sense.

The rumor about Cole and Schwartz with Toronto might have had substance, but I think Schwartz is playing his way into not being traded. Cole could still be a piece used to get that defender.

Of our other prospects, I could see us offering Rattie or one of our defensive prospects as well.

 

[Eazy D]

I really hope Schwartz isn't lifted. He's one of the very small few who has been playing with any heart at all. Yes I know he'll make mistakes but it's hockey, everyone does. He'll learn and grow from it.

In the case of Perron....he is an offensive-minded player on a top line tasked with shutting down the opposing top line. This requires playing defense. Backes and Oshie have shown they are pretty good at dishing a hit and getting back in defensive coverage, simply put Perron is not. I think he would thrive on the 2nd line with (all things considered) Tarasenko and Amac, Stewart or even Schwartz in the future. Steen with 42 and 74 is more my kind of shutdown. Perron just wants to make the offensive zone play so put him with guys that work to get open for it. Perron as a setup man with 91 really revs my engine.