Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

[bleedblue1223]

Also, if we are using just futures, I think it severely narrows down the list of teams and players that we can speculate about.

Only teams that are out of the playoffs, no top young talents, and only top vets if they are rentals.

 

[sh724]

According to JR's tweets it sounds like Army is more likely to trade futures than roster pieces.

So that probably rules out Perron and Stewart, which makes sense.

The rumor about Cole and Schwartz with Toronto might have had substance, but I think Schwartz is playing his way into not being traded. Cole could still be a piece used to get that defender.

Of our other prospects, I could see us offering Rattie or one of our defensive prospects as well.

It could be read that way but he said 'future' not 'futures' which could mean teams are not looking to the future so are not willing to give up their more valuable players because there are experienced players that cannot be had for picks/prospects that would be available in a normal season. Or maybe I am just reading too much into it.

The tweets also make it sound like Army has been pushing to make a trade but cannot find a deal that he wants and teams are asking for too much at this point. But that should be expected since so many teams are still in serious contention of making the POs. In an 82 game season at the half way mark the majority of teams know if they are going to make the POs or not but with this season at the 1/2 way point pretty much every team is still trying to make the POs and that means every other team is also looking at getting better so the few players that might be available are going to be more expensive than they would be any other year at this point. Hopefully that changes over the next 30 days until the trade deadline but come deadline day i doubt there is more than 6 teams that are going to consider dropping players like normally at the trade deadline.

This is another reason to hate the loser point, so far this season just in the west 28 games have gone to a shoot out and 21 games that have ended in OT (my math could be off a little on those numbers). So that is 49 points that have been given too teams that lost. Personally I would like to see the shoot out gone and go back to ties which would mean only 21 extra points would have been given out, but I know that will never happen. If they went to either a 3 point system or got rid of the loser point it would really open up the trade market.

 

[Oberyn]

According to JR's tweets it sounds like Army is more likely to trade futures than roster pieces.

So that probably rules out Perron and Stewart, which makes sense.

The rumor about Cole and Schwartz with Toronto might have had substance, but I think Schwartz is playing his way into not being traded. Cole could still be a piece used to get that defender.

Of our other prospects, I could see us offering Rattie or one of our defensive prospects as well.

As long as the prospect isn't Jaskin it's fine by me. He intrigues me and I think his upside is huge. I don't mind moving Rattie/Cole/Schmaltz as long as the price is right.

 

[simon IC]

Speaking of TO, there's a report, apparently out of St. Louis, that Mike Komisarek wants a trade. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417305. Now, I realize his salary negates him coming to the Blues, but if the Leafs buy him out, (which may happen), I think he could be a useful 6/7 D. He'd be better than Redden. I think we could use his size and physicality. Thoughts?

 

[frostyflo]

Speaking of TO, there's a report, apparently out of St. Louis, that Mike Komisarek wants a trade. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417305. Now, I realize his salary negates him coming to the Blues, but if the Leafs buy him out, (which may happen), I think he could be a useful 6/7 D. He'd be better than Redden. I think we could use his size and physicality. Thoughts?

I don't know, we already have a faster, younger, better version of him in Polak on the right side

If they really decide to play Pie at the left side with Shatty that would leave our bottom four with Jax and Cole as LHD and Polak and Komisarek as RHD so there would be no quick transitioning whatsoever

It doesn't make sense to me, just like the Kulemin rumor

 

[Alklha]

On the face of it, I am largely against moving futures at the moment. I'd rather keep our first this year and I don't believe we'd get good value in moving Cole, Schwartz or Jaškin.

Rattie is more interesting though. His upside is probably higher, but he has more question marks than Jaškin. I wouldn't be totally shocked if he was moved.

I don't really believe we are at a point where 1 piece puts us over the top. Depends on the deal we were able to get though.

Speaking of TO, there's a report, apparently out of St. Louis, that Mike Komisarek wants a trade. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417305. Now, I realize his salary negates him coming to the Blues, but if the Leafs buy him out, (which may happen), I think he could be a useful 6/7 D. He'd be better than Redden. I think we could use his size and physicality. Thoughts?

Even if Komisarek was a fit here, it would only be in the short term. You can only use the compliance buyout at the end of the season, so that rules that out.

 

[PocketNines]

Speaking of TO, there's a report, apparently out of St. Louis, that Mike Komisarek wants a trade. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417305. Now, I realize his salary negates him coming to the Blues, but if the Leafs buy him out, (which may happen), I think he could be a useful 6/7 D. He'd be better than Redden. I think we could use his size and physicality. Thoughts?

Thoughts on how his salary is prohibitive to the Blues and even if he could be afforded he'd be a 6/7 (for a massively excessive price still) option? How bout ****ing no. Sorry to be so blunt but Jesus.

 

[TheOrganist]

Saw this on the STL Today board:

Jim Matheson reports the St. Louis Blues are reportedly looking at Oilers defenseman Ryan Whitney. "I’d say defenceman Ryan Whitney is the most likely to go. He’s an unrestricted free agent and he’s been in and out of the Oilers lineup. The word is that the Blues may be looking at him now, feeling he can be a better alternative than Wade Redden or Ian Cole on the back end."

I actually mentioned this possibility during the Blues/Oiler game when Whitney looked pretty good. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise. UFA to be. No commitment beyond this year. Won't cost a lot of assets. A guy who really needs a change of scenery. Playoff experience. This is exactly the type of move I see us making. Most fans won't love it but I think it's better than what we currently have.

 

[SirPaste]

Saw this on the STL Today board:



I actually mentioned this possibility during the Blues/Oiler game when Whitney looked pretty good. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise. UFA to be. No commitment beyond this year. Won't cost a lot of assets. A guy who really needs a change of scenery. Playoff experience. This is exactly the type of move I see us making. Most fans won't love it but I think it's better than what we currently have.

According to most Oiler fans on this site, I know that doesnt mean much, this guy can barely skate anymore. I would think there are better options out there, such as Hainsey.

 

[Hooliganx3]

Saw this on the STL Today board:



I actually mentioned this possibility during the Blues/Oiler game when Whitney looked pretty good. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise. UFA to be. No commitment beyond this year. Won't cost a lot of assets. A guy who really needs a change of scenery. Playoff experience. This is exactly the type of move I see us making. Most fans won't love it but I think it's better than what we currently have.

Cole is currently better then Whitney. One good game doesn't change that. Really Hitchcock needs to let Cole play instead of his preference for veterans. I said Redden wasn't the answer when we signed him. Right now Redden and Whitney are pretty close in skating ability currently he is not the answer as well. I can't understand why we go with crappy veterans making mistakes over a young talented player that makes mistakes from time to time.

 

[Oberyn]

Saw this on the STL Today board:



I actually mentioned this possibility during the Blues/Oiler game when Whitney looked pretty good. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise. UFA to be. No commitment beyond this year. Won't cost a lot of assets. A guy who really needs a change of scenery. Playoff experience. This is exactly the type of move I see us making. Most fans won't love it but I think it's better than what we currently have.

Whitney makes Redden look like Grabner, this guy was a healthy scratch on the ****ing Oilers, that doesn't bode well for me at all. If guys like Whitney and Arnott are what's holding us back as a team, we need to reevaluate our roster. I want no part in either of those two, and if Armstrong gives up good pieces for Whitney I'm gonna go buck.

 

[SirPaste]

Well apparantly Strick just reported on 590 The Fan that Arnott will play for the Blues this weekend

 

[TheOrganist]

Cole, who I still like long-term, will get abused in the playoffs against any team with a good forecheck. Any veteran defenseman with a functioning body (hello, Mr. Redden) will be an upgrade over him come playoff time. An Oiler fan posted that Whitney's game is coming around. I guarantee Hitchcock is pushing for some type of move on the blue line and Armstrong knows the status quo isn't good enough. Guys like Whitney are who the Blues are going to go after with the budgetary constraints of the franchise. He will most likely only cost a mid-level pick and a middling prospect and hell, maybe they can even unload D'Agostini since Whitney's contract is excessive. Again, this rumor should surprise no one.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Roman Hamrlik was waived. Wonder if he has anything left in the tank? 38 years old. One heck of a d-man at one time. Maybe he, Redden, and Arnott could race for a roster spot?

 

[Hooliganx3]

Cole, who I still like long-term, will get abused in the playoffs against any team with a good forecheck. Any veteran defenseman with a functioning body (hello, Mr. Redden) will be an upgrade over him come playoff time. An Oiler fan posted that Whitney's game is coming around. I guarantee Hitchcock is pushing for some type of move on the blue line and Armstrong knows the status quo isn't good enough. Guys like Whitney are who the Blues are going to go after with the budgetary constraints of the franchise. He will most likely only cost a mid-level pick and a middling prospect and hell, maybe they can even unload D'Agostini since Whitney's contract is excessive. Again, this rumor should surprise no one.

A player that can't skate is better then a young strong good skater? Cole should be on the bottom pairing ideally I agree but with what we have he's the best LH defenseman besides Jackman. Whiteney and Redden are both more likely to get abused in the playoffs due to their lack of skating ability. Also Cole is stronger then both Redden and Whiteney and can handle the physical aspect of the playoffs better then those two.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Roman Hamrlik was waived. Wonder if he has anything left in the tank? 38 years old. One heck of a d-man at one time. Maybe he, Redden, and Arnott could race for a roster spot?

I'd rather have Hamrlik over Whitney or Redden.

 

[EastonBlues22]

The mistakes I'm watching Redden make under minimal pressure do not at all convince me that he'll be a better option than Cole in the playoffs.

Same goes for Whitney or Hamrlik. The Blues are basically throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks with those guys. That's fine if that's the best option you have available to you, but it will be more luck than skill if someone like that works out.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

A player that can't skate is better then a young strong good skater? Cole should be on the bottom pairing ideally I agree but with what we have he's the best LH defenseman besides Jackman. Whiteney and Redden are both more likely to get abused in the playoffs due to their lack of skating ability. Also Cole is stronger then both Redden and Whiteney and can handle the physical aspect of the playoffs better then those two.

It doesn't matter a whole lot how fast or strong you are, if you don't use it wisely. Cole shows glimpses, but like against the Black Hawks. He isn't doing ANYTHING to Toews in front of a wide open net. Toews is taking wack after wack at the puck at an empty net. No instinct to knock him into the goal or on his keyster. Not taking a penalty to keep him from scoring. I am just convinced that he may have Shawn Belle disease and lack the natural defensive instincts at the position. He has the tools to overcome not being a natural, but we need to win hockey games. One day he looks fine and fits right in with Pietro, others he looks like he doesn't belong in a Blues sweater. Getting beat is one thing, not having instincts to make defensive plays is another. I truly think Cole is a bottom pairing d-man. Maybe he will become a top 4....Don't know. He makes beautiful passes, hits, etc. defensive assignments for whatever reason don't seem to come natural to him. Just my opinion.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

The mistakes I'm watching Redden make under minimal pressure do not at all convince me that he'll be a better option than Cole in the playoffs.

Same goes for Whitney or Hamrlik. The Blues are basically throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks with those guys. That's fine if that's the best option you have available to you, but it will be more luck than skill if someone like that works out.

You are right on the money. Need to look at making a move. Band aids don't seem to stick right now.

 

[Hooliganx3]

It doesn't matter a whole lot how fast or strong you are, if you don't use it wisely. Cole shows glimpses, but like against the Black Hawks. He isn't doing ANYTHING to Toews in front of a wide open net. Toews is taking wack after wack at the puck at an empty net. No instinct to knock him into the goal or on his keyster. Not taking a penalty to keep him from scoring. I am just convinced that he may have Shawn Belle disease and lack the natural defensive instincts at the position. He has the tools to overcome not being a natural, but we need to win hockey games. One day he looks fine and fits right in with Pietro, others he looks like he doesn't belong in a Blues sweater. Getting beat is one thing, not having instincts to make defensive plays is another. I truly think Cole is a bottom pairing d-man. Maybe he will become a top 4....Don't know. He makes beautiful passes, hits, etc. defensive assignments for whatever reason don't seem to come natural to him. Just my opinion.

I personally think Cole's biggest problem is Hitchcock. I think if we trade Cole away and he gets to play for another coach he will really show his ability without the fear of sitting for the weak after one mistake. I think Cole is over thinking everything instead of just playing naturally due to not wanting to make mistakes.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Can we afford anything besides a band-aid fix though? We have the assets to make a move, but do we have the money to pay for that player or can we afford to give up cost-controlled assets?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Well apparantly Strick just reported on 590 The Fan that Arnott will play for the Blues this weekend

He said if he signs, he could play as soon as the weekend. Or at least he just clarified what he said on the radio. That's just him speculating.

 

[TheOrganist]

Hitchcock says all the right things regarding Cole. I think he desperately wants Cole to run with the opportunity because it would be huge for the team. But at the end of the day you know he doesn't trust him in high leverage situations and doesn't trust his game to game consistency and that's why he keeps shifting back to Redden. And Wade Redden might be one of the most useless defenseman in the league right now which says everything you need to know about how he views Cole. Even if he thinks he shows glimpses at times, he knows that the season is suddenly running short, the team isn't playing well, and everyone is growing impatient.

Our opinions our irrelevant. You only need to look at how the man in charge is handling the situation. And there is no doubt in my mind that both Hitchcock and Armstrong would view Whitney as an upgrade over Cole and Redden. Jim Matheson is as connected as it gets and the rumor makes sense.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'd be fine with Whitney. Maybe Whitney looks slow compared to the Oilers fast squad, maybe he is discouraged by being in Edmonton, maybe he would look a lot better next to Pietrangelo.

He would not cost us a lot trade wise either.

 

[Hooliganx3]

Hitchcock says all the right things regarding Cole. I think he desperately wants Cole to run with the opportunity because it would be huge for the team. But at the end of the day you know he doesn't trust him in high leverage situations and doesn't trust his game to game consistency and that's why he keeps shifting back to Redden. And Wade Redden might be one of the most useless defenseman in the league right now which says everything you need to know about how he views Cole. Even if he thinks he shows glimpses at times, he knows that the season is suddenly running short, the team isn't playing well, and everyone is growing impatient.

Our opinions our irrelevant. You only need to look at how the man in charge is handling the situation. And there is no doubt in my mind that both Hitchcock and Armstrong would view Whitney as an upgrade over Cole and Redden. Jim Matheson is as connected as it gets and the rumor makes sense.

I agree with you I don't think Hitchcock trusts Cole. Hitchcock doesn't seem to be the best coach with young players IMO. He seems to prefer his veterans. I think we are just lucky most of our young players had experience before he became our coach.