Blues Trade Proposals 2023-2024

[Xerloris]

leddy was much better last year than folks remember. parayko, given his usage, was better than we think too. but faulk was much worse last year than is generally understood.

Was it Faulk or Krug that was so bad?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Was it Faulk or Krug that was so bad?

krug was much worse, but we all know that. faulk was nowhere near as good as previous season though.

 

[Majorityof1]

leddy was much better last year than folks remember. parayko, given his usage, was better than we think too. but faulk was much worse last year than is generally understood.

This is absolutely true. I was against the Leddy deal pretty vocally. He impressed me last year. I am not as high on his season as Brian, but I think he was clearly one of our 2 best D and worth his contract pretty easily. I have no interest in moving him now. Krug absolutely needs to be the one to go.

 

[Majorityof1]

krug was much worse, but we all know that. faulk was nowhere near as good as previous season though.

I am far from a Faulk fan, but I'll try to be fair to him. Our defensive scheme seemed like it was designed as a direct attack to make him as bad as possible. By design, we gave up the Blue line with little to no contest. That is Faulk's strength, preventing zone entires.

Our coaches were like, "oh you're elite at that? Stop doing it. Give up the line, go defend the net which isn't a strength of yours, and if the puck goes in the corner, you chase it. We'll partner you with this 5 ft stationary midget who will guard the net by slowly spinning in circles watching the puck."

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I am far from a Faulk fan, but I'll try to be fair to him. Our defensive scheme seemed like it was designed as a direct attack to make him as bad as possible. By design, we gave up the Blue line with little to no contest. That is Faulk's strength, preventing zone entires.

Our coaches were like, "oh you're elite at that? Stop doing it. Give up the line, go defend the net which isn't a strength of yours, and if the puck goes in the corner, you chase it. We'll partner you with this 5 ft stationary midget who will guard the net by slowly spinning in circles watching the puck."

This hurts how true it is

 

[Reality Czech]

Yeah, it's why the narrative that Leddy was bad last year always bothered me, and why I always concluded it came from people that never wanted to trade for him in the first place.

Once a narrative gets picked up, it's extremely hard to change it regardless of if it's true or not. Leddy had a solid year and certainly earned his $4 million salary. I didn't know much about him before we got him, but I know he used to be a pretty key player for Chicago and the Islanders. I guess once he had a rough stretch with Detroit a lot of people just wrote him off.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I am far from a Faulk fan, but I'll try to be fair to him. Our defensive scheme seemed like it was designed as a direct attack to make him as bad as possible. By design, we gave up the Blue line with little to no contest. That is Faulk's strength, preventing zone entires.

Our coaches were like, "oh you're elite at that? Stop doing it. Give up the line, go defend the net which isn't a strength of yours, and if the puck goes in the corner, you chase it. We'll partner you with this 5 ft stationary midget who will guard the net by slowly spinning in circles watching the puck."

Agreed. I am Faulk fan and think he was great previous year, but last year was no bueno.

 

[Celtic Note]

I was not a fan of getting Leddy either, but he has shown to be a solid D who is worth his salary.

 

[Mike Liut]

It’s a shame Leddy, Krug and Scandella have been forced into 1LD throughout the year. Those 3 shouldn’t be anywhere near 1LD. We will continue to struggle defensively until that black hole is filled with a legitimate player.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

It’s a shame Leddy, Krug and Scandella have been forced into 1LD throughout the year. Those 3 shouldn’t be anywhere near 1LD. We will continue to struggle defensively until that black hole is filled with a legitimate player.

Theo Lindstein - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Theo Lindstein, 2005-01-05 Gävle, SWE Sweden. Most recently in the SHL with Brynäs IF. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[Mike Liut]

Theo Lindstein - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Theo Lindstein, 2005-01-05 Gävle, SWE Sweden. Most recently in the SHL with Brynäs IF. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

I figured he was 2-3 years away

 

[Brian39]

leddy was much better last year than folks remember. parayko, given his usage, was better than we think too. but faulk was much worse last year than is generally understood.

I'm probably not as down on Faulk as you were. He was excellent offensively. His 40 even strength points were 8th in the NHL (tied with Fox and Montour) and his 11 goals were in a large tie for 20th (tied with Heiskenan, Chabot, Andersson, DeAngelo, Spurgeon, and Petro). His usage was heavily leaned toward offensive production, but he at least excelled when given the chance.

His defending wasn't particularly good, but I agree with @Majorityof1 that his biggest strength defending is preventing zone injuries and this was clearly discouraged by the coaching staff. Additionally, while he did get the advantage of sheltered usage, he drew the short end of the partner stick. He played the majority of his minutes with Krug (who played much worse than the last couple years).

You can have 1 guy in your top 4 providing the level of defensive contribution that Faulk did last year if that guy is tangibly producing at even strength (which he was) and you have 3 other top 4 caliber guys who can pick up some of that defensive slack. But we only had 2 such guys and neither played much with Faulk. Put a 6'3" two-way (or shut down) capable partner with Faulk and I think you can have a really good pair if Faulk simply repeats his performance. I'd like him to be better, but I do think that a decent chunk of his struggles were that he was being asked to do too much.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I am far from a Faulk fan, but I'll try to be fair to him. Our defensive scheme seemed like it was designed as a direct attack to make him as bad as possible. By design, we gave up the Blue line with little to no contest. That is Faulk's strength, preventing zone entires.

Our coaches were like, "oh you're elite at that? Stop doing it. Give up the line, go defend the net which isn't a strength of yours, and if the puck goes in the corner, you chase it. We'll partner you with this 5 ft stationary midget who will guard the net by slowly spinning in circles watching the puck."

Hilariously and concerningly accurate.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I'm probably not as down on Faulk as you were. He was excellent offensively. His 40 even strength points were 8th in the NHL (tied with Fox and Montour) and his 11 goals were in a large tie for 20th (tied with Heiskenan, Chabot, Andersson, DeAngelo, Spurgeon, and Petro). His usage was heavily leaned toward offensive production, but he at least excelled when given the chance.

His defending wasn't particularly good, but I agree with @Majorityof1 that his biggest strength defending is preventing zone injuries and this was clearly discouraged by the coaching staff. Additionally, while he did get the advantage of sheltered usage, he drew the short end of the partner stick. He played the majority of his minutes with Krug (who played much worse than the last couple years).

You can have 1 guy in your top 4 providing the level of defensive contribution that Faulk did last year if that guy is tangibly producing at even strength (which he was) and you have 3 other top 4 caliber guys who can pick up some of that defensive slack. But we only had 2 such guys and neither played much with Faulk. Put a 6'3" two-way (or shut down) capable partner with Faulk and I think you can have a really good pair if Faulk simply repeats his performance. I'd like him to be better, but I do think that a decent chunk of his struggles were that he was being asked to do too much.

I’m not wanting to move him, just think he had rough year defensively. I expect he will be better this year.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Speaking of the defensive coaching. Help me understand what they were angling for.

Is the idea, don’t contest zone entry in favor of taking effective positions to shape where the opposition take the puck, pushing them into low percentage areas where you can force turnovers either by stripping the puck or by frustrating them into low percentage plays or shots. The advantage is that you supposedly have a fast transition game and create offense out of the transition game.

You’d rather trade zone entries with your opponent than grind the offensive zone (Hitchcock’s model being almost the antithesis of this).

Is there a team that does this well, we can use as a template for what the Blues would have looked like when successful?

 

[ezcreepin]

Speaking of the defensive coaching. Help me understand what they were angling for.

Is the idea, don’t contest zone entry in favor of taking effective positions to shape where the opposition take the puck, pushing them into low percentage areas where you can force turnovers either by stripping the puck or by frustrating them into low percentage plays or shots. The advantage is that you supposedly have a fast transition game and create offense out of the transition game.

You’d rather trade zone entries with your opponent than grind the offensive zone (Hitchcock’s model being almost the antithesis of this).

Is there a team that does this well, we can use as a template for what the Blues would have looked like when successful?

A far as the angle, I don't really know, but the strategy was to collapse hard on the goalie and follow the puck carrier to hopefully create a pick that they can't get by. Just from my memory, it seems like they were trying to quickly get out of the zone which forced passes too often and consequently lead to turnovers. I think you might be right that they were leaning into the transition game way more than they had originally as you could see players were out of the zone getting into position to receive a pass. Not a lot of 5 man unit drives.

The board play was pretty ugly too in the defensive end. Once they had possession, they would shoot it up the boards and chip it out instead of eluding pressure by passing it to the defensive partner. Lots of stretch passes that were picked off because our players were cheating. I'd have to look at their coverage during back door goals because it seemed like they were playing man on man coverage, just in the collapsing style. The issue being that none of the players were man on man and it left holes for the back door passes. I remember a lot of standing around from the defender in front of the net. Lots of puck watching and not boxing out the player. It's hard for me to recall what the structure looked like and how it exited the zone because we collapsed so hard and often times would get beat while in our own zone. There wasn't a lot of games where you could see their strategy working as intended.

 

[Xerloris]

Speaking of the defensive coaching. Help me understand what they were angling for.

Is the idea, don’t contest zone entry in favor of taking effective positions to shape where the opposition take the puck, pushing them into low percentage areas where you can force turnovers either by stripping the puck or by frustrating them into low percentage plays or shots. The advantage is that you supposedly have a fast transition game and create offense out of the transition game.

You’d rather trade zone entries with your opponent than grind the offensive zone (Hitchcock’s model being almost the antithesis of this).

Is there a team that does this well, we can use as a template for what the Blues would have looked like when successful?

Nothing I can think of makes sense. It's one of the dumbest f***ings strategies I have ever seen. I swear to god, I'll give them like 5 games and if the same shit is being done I want Berube f***ing fired.

 

[DatDude44]

I figured he was 2-3 years away

and you'd be correct, at minimum

 

[DatDude44]

Speaking of the defensive coaching. Help me understand what they were angling for.

Is the idea, don’t contest zone entry in favor of taking effective positions to shape where the opposition take the puck, pushing them into low percentage areas where you can force turnovers either by stripping the puck or by frustrating them into low percentage plays or shots. The advantage is that you supposedly have a fast transition game and create offense out of the transition game.

You’d rather trade zone entries with your opponent than grind the offensive zone (Hitchcock’s model being almost the antithesis of this).

Is there a team that does this well, we can use as a template for what the Blues would have looked like when successful?

Alot of it started with our F3, or lack there of. If you have proper F3 angling/backpressure, it allows D opportunity to steer into the walls and rub them out at or before the blue, or finish a check or at the least force a dump without purpose.

If our "coaching" in all areas improves, i'd imagine the entire team will improve and defensively should be able to notice a massive difference.

But it was way too easy to exit against us last year, way to easy to get inside the dots and by that time, you're asking way to much of the D to not only play the rush without backpressure but somehow step up and risk getting walked to force them at the blue. Team defense needs major improvement, not just, the Krugs/paraykos etc... etc....

I do think Mike Weber would be a big help, i'd like to see us utilize the surf technique in the NZ as well, buffalo does it all the time and more times than not it's effective.

 

[Xerloris]

Alot of it started with our F3, or lack there of. If you have proper F3 angling/backpressure, it allows D opportunity to steer into the walls and rub them out at or before the blue, or finish a check or at the least force a dump without purpose.

If our "coaching" in all areas improves, i'd imagine the entire team will improve and defensively should be able to notice a massive difference.

But it was way too easy to exit against us last year, way to easy to get inside the dots and by that time, you're asking way to much of the D to not only play the rush without backpressure but somehow step up and risk getting walked to force them at the blue. Team defense needs major improvement, not just, the Krugs/paraykos etc... etc....

I do think Mike Weber would be a big help, i'd like to see us utilize the surf technique in the NZ as well, buffalo does it all the time and more times than not it's effective.

Don't just say shit like that and then act like you're done. You need to explain what you mean by surf technique.

 

[ArenaRat]

Don't just say shit like that and then act like you're done. You need to explain what you mean by surf technique.

Thank you!

 

[DatDude44]

Don't just say shit like that and then act like you're done. You need to explain what you mean by surf technique.

Lol why are u so angry all the time.

To simplify what it means, Surfing technique or what I like to call “forward angling” is when you’re D work from the inside out and use fwd skating to match speed and cut off the fwds hands, it’s difficult, requires angling, stick detail and speed control.

A lot of newer age Defenceman do it, I watched a lot of buffalo last year and Dahlin/ power did it on a shift in and shift out basis. Guys like Heisksnen, makar, lane Hutson etc… do it all the time. The only blue I noticed do it consistently was mikkola and Leddy but not as frequently as I’d like.

Some define surfing as solely a transition thing on opponent exits and essentially the SSD just “surfs” through the middle (above the WSD)of the ice into a forward angle on the puck carrier, instead of just skating backwards passing him off to your partner whose also skating backwards etc…

Essentially it’s a rush defense technique with the goal of killing the play/creating a turnover/forcing a purposeless dump at the anywhere in the NZ but preferably at the red or before for obvious reasons.

Pretty sure u can just google it, I’d imagine there’s YouTube videos of it. Duncan Keith was famous for it

 

[Xerloris]

Lol why are u so angry all the time.

To simplify what it means, Surfing technique or what I like to call “forward angling” is when you’re D work from the inside out and use fwd skating to match speed and cut off the fwds hands, it’s difficult, requires angling, stick detail and speed control.

A lot of newer age Defenceman do it, I watched a lot of buffalo last year and Dahlin/ power did it on a shift in and shift out basis. Guys like Heisksnen, makar, lane Hutson etc… do it all the time. The only blue I noticed do it consistently was mikkola and Leddy but not as frequently as I’d like.

Some define surfing as solely a transition thing on opponent exits and essentially the SSD just “surfs” through the middle (above the WSD)of the ice into a forward angle on the puck carrier, instead of just skating backwards passing him off to your partner whose also skating backwards etc…

Essentially it’s a rush defense technique with the goal of killing the play/creating a turnover/forcing a purposeless dump at the anywhere in the NZ but preferably at the red or before for obvious reasons.

Pretty sure u can just google it, I’d imagine there’s YouTube videos of it. Duncan Keith was famous for it

Genuinely I don't think I have ever posted here while angry. Thanks for the explanation though.

 

[Majorityof1]

Alot of it started with our F3, or lack there of. If you have proper F3 angling/backpressure, it allows D opportunity to steer into the walls and rub them out at or before the blue, or finish a check or at the least force a dump without purpose.

If our "coaching" in all areas improves, i'd imagine the entire team will improve and defensively should be able to notice a massive difference.

But it was way too easy to exit against us last year, way to easy to get inside the dots and by that time, you're asking way to much of the D to not only play the rush without backpressure but somehow step up and risk getting walked to force them at the blue. Team defense needs major improvement, not just, the Krugs/paraykos etc... etc....

I do think Mike Weber would be a big help, i'd like to see us utilize the surf technique in the NZ as well, buffalo does it all the time and more times than not it's effective.

The forwards weren't always at fault. Even when we had a good forecheck with backpressure, we still had our D back off the blue line and allow entry. Our forwards and our D need to be better, but I think our scheme was at fault as well.

Lol why are u so angry all the time.

To simplify what it means, Surfing technique or what I like to call “forward angling” is when you’re D work from the inside out and use fwd skating to match speed and cut off the fwds hands, it’s difficult, requires angling, stick detail and speed control.

A lot of newer age Defenceman do it, I watched a lot of buffalo last year and Dahlin/ power did it on a shift in and shift out basis. Guys like Heisksnen, makar, lane Hutson etc… do it all the time. The only blue I noticed do it consistently was mikkola and Leddy but not as frequently as I’d like.

Some define surfing as solely a transition thing on opponent exits and essentially the SSD just “surfs” through the middle (above the WSD)of the ice into a forward angle on the puck carrier, instead of just skating backwards passing him off to your partner whose also skating backwards etc…

Essentially it’s a rush defense technique with the goal of killing the play/creating a turnover/forcing a purposeless dump at the anywhere in the NZ but preferably at the red or before for obvious reasons.

Pretty sure u can just google it, I’d imagine there’s YouTube videos of it. Duncan Keith was famous for it

Isn't that generally done by better skaters? All the guys you named are known for skating, except maybe Mikkola and he is fast for his size. Krug, Scandella coming off of hip surgery, and even Faulk are only average at best. Parayko could maybe learn skating but the rest?. If you misjudge the angle and speed on sufing, you essentially let the other player around you. Faster players can catch up, Krug is out of the play.

 

[bluebird enthusiast]

Genuinely I don't think I have ever posted here while angry. Thanks for the explanation though.

I don't mean to dog pile, but take it from the resident lurker here:

I respect your right to use all of the colorful language you want, but on an online message board, posting in the manner that you do (regarding said use of colorful language) will rarely be interpreted as anything but abrasive at best.

I believe it'd come off better if you were able to accompany online posts with body language and gestures to better fit the message you're wanting to convey, but emojis can only go so far.