Blues Trade Proposals 2023-2024

[Xerloris]

The Dingo does not approve.
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Seriously though, No.
Walker is perfectly fine as a 13th forward, he just isn't an every night player.
And I much prefer Walker sitting in the press box every night as opposed to Alexandrov.
I'm not completely opposed to moving Walker, but it would only be worthwhile if it's to make the Cap work while addressing another need.
For example: Rosen, Bortuzzo and Walker for a half price Tyler Myers(not that I'd actually do that deal because I have zero interest in Myers at any price).

Good god Walker is awful. Is it a coincidence that when we put a shit player like Walker on the team full time we have our worst season in almost 2 decades? I think not. He's tiny, he's dirty, always looks like he needs a shower and he sucks.

 

[Stealth JD]

Blues have so much offense. I could see a Nov-December trade to move out somebody up front. The prospect pool is as deep as the NHL-roster, and guys like Bolduc, Alexandrov, McGing, Dean and Gaudette could easily fill in for 12-minutes a night for five games a piece to overcome the loss of a top-9 forward.

If the Blues could trade a top-6 forward and forward-prospect for a for-sure top-4 LD, they'd be wise to pay whatever they'd need to from the remaining 'futures'-pool to get Krug the hell off this roster.

 

[Stealth JD]

Good god Walker is awful. Is it a coincidence that when we put a shit player like Walker on the team full time we have our worst season in almost 2 decades? I think not. He's tiny, he's dirty, always looks like he needs a shower and he sucks.

Name me two other 13th/14th forwards that the Blues have had over the past 20-years, that could do this. (I'll even spot you one Zach Sanford). For a guy who is on the roster to play maybe 20 games, the Blues could do (and have done) worse than NW.

The little Aussie is likeable and his teammates apparently love him. I'd rather have him than a MacMac, easily.

 

[Xerloris]

Name me two other 13th/14th forwards that the Blues have had over the past 20-years, that could do this. (I'll even spot you one Zach Sanford). For a guy who is on the roster to play maybe 20 games, the Blues could do (and have done) worse than NW.

The little Aussie is likeable and his teammates apparently love him. I'd rather have him than a MacMac, easily.

Sanford scored 4 goals in a game. Doesn't mean he didn't suck f***ing ass. MacMac is the kind of player we need, not Walker. I would take Sunny even if he never played a game to just sit in the press box rather than have Walker on the off chance he might play even just one game for us.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Sanford scored 4 goals in a game. Doesn't mean he didn't suck f***ing ass. MacMac is the kind of player we need, not Walker. I would take Sunny even if he never played a game to just sit in the press box rather than have Walker on the off chance he might play even just one game for us.

Sounds like you’re very rational about this.

 

[Xerloris]

Sounds like you’re very rational about this.

Thank you for noticing.

 

[PeoriaBlues309]

All this arguing about Nathan Walker as if he isn’t going to be in the 14th forward/locker room presence role, and not playing unless we’re hit with quite a few injuries up front.

Sunny and Blais can play up the lineup, and you also have Dean and Bolduc who will get opportunities if they’re doing well in Springfield.

I doubt Walker plays more than 15-20 games this year even if he’s up all season. We have much better depth this year than last year, and I don’t see us having a major sell off like we did before, but even if we do, we actually have prospects we can put into the lineup if guys like Vrana/Kap do get dealt.

 

[shpongle falls]

I wish Walker had more skill, he seems like a great dude and I love Australians. I like that video he did for the Blues picture day last season.

 

[ezcreepin]

Walker is nice to have as a depth option. Even if he is replacement level, the fact that he works his ass off is half the battle. I've seen players with 10x the amount of talent he has never do the work that Walker does. For that, I'm perfectly fine with him on the roster and I would personally rather Mac in the AHL.

On a talent pool perspective, the Blues have done an amazing job building up the forward prospects to a degree that they can finally make a move for an upgrade if necessary. Plus they have other defensive prospects to trade to get that going as well. Something the Cardinals couldn't ever be bothered with and I'm sure the direction of this franchise will improve quickly as opposed to being bottom dwellers for years.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Walker is nice to have as a depth option. Even if he is replacement level, the fact that he works his ass off is half the battle. I've seen players with 10x the amount of talent he has never do the work that Walker does. For that, I'm perfectly fine with him on the roster and I would personally rather Mac in the AHL.

On a talent pool perspective, the Blues have done an amazing job building up the forward prospects to a degree that they can finally make a move for an upgrade if necessary. Plus they have other defensive prospects to trade to get that going as well. Something the Cardinals couldn't ever be bothered with and I'm sure the direction of this franchise will improve quickly as opposed to being bottom dwellers for years.

Yeah, NHL is definitely a level where talent alone is not enough. Without the drive and the discipline to constantly improve oneself, there is no long NHL career to be had.

Just look at the like of Josh Ho-Sang.

 

[Thallis]

Nick Leddy just had arguably the best season of his career in his age 31 season.

What

 

[Xerloris]

What

It's true. He had the hardest usage of his career and he did rather well considering that's not close to what his role is suppose to be.

 

[Brian39]

What

He was deployed like an elite shutdown D man (for the first time in his career) and had the best defensive season of his career. More total takeaways than he's ever had and he posted a positive takeaway/giveaway ratio for the first time in his career. His +4 finish was the first time he's had a positive +/- since he was 23 years old. Finishing +4 while playing 19:10 at even strength for last year's Blues team is ridiculous. He and Buch were the only plus players who played 900+ minutes for the Blues last season (Leddy played 1648 minutes FWIW).

He's never even come close to doing as much defensively as he did last year and he still chipped in as many even strength points as DeAngelo, Hronek, Trouba, Klinberg, and Barrie despite being the only member of that group who was used in a shutdown role.

Leddy's performance last year is astoundingly underrated. There is a very good argument that he was the best D man on our team last year.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, it's why the narrative that Leddy was bad last year always bothered me, and why I always concluded it came from people that never wanted to trade for him in the first place.

 

[Xerloris]

Yet everyone wants to get rid of Leddy now too.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Yet everyone wants to get rid of Leddy now too.

Nah not everyone. Only Kyrou gets that luxury

 

[Brian39]

Yeah, it's why the narrative that Leddy was bad last year always bothered me, and why I always concluded it came from people that never wanted to trade for him in the first place.

I wasn't at all a fan of the trade when it happened (I was day drunk at the pool on vacation when I saw the news and it tangibly impacted my mood), but his play here has been so much better than anything I saw from him in New York or Detroit. We've asked him to play a role he's never played before and he has excelled. I still want to get his minutes/deployment down to that of a #3/4 D man rather than a #1/2 D man, but he was a bargain at $4M this year.

That will be an excellent contract if he can give us 2 more years of what we got last year.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I wasn't at all a fan of the trade when it happened (I was day drunk at the pool on vacation when I saw the news and it tangibly impacted my mood), but his play here has been so much better than anything I saw from him in New York or Detroit. We've asked him to play a role he's never played before and he has excelled. I still want to get his minutes/deployment down to that of a #3/4 D man rather than a #1/2 D man, but he was a bargain at $4M this year.

That will be an excellent contract if he can give us 2 more years of what we got last year.

I was similar and a bit more optimistic, but I also never envisioned him performing this well in a heavy defensive usage. I'd be very curious to get a list of players that have received such a drastic change in deployment, and still performing well in that new role. It can't be a very long list.

My optimism was based on his elite transition play that I thought would be a big benfit to either Parayko or Faulk.

 

[Thallis]

He was deployed like an elite shutdown D man (for the first time in his career) and had the best defensive season of his career. More total takeaways than he's ever had and he posted a positive takeaway/giveaway ratio for the first time in his career. His +4 finish was the first time he's had a positive +/- since he was 23 years old. Finishing +4 while playing 19:10 at even strength for last year's Blues team is ridiculous. He and Buch were the only plus players who played 900+ minutes for the Blues last season (Leddy played 1648 minutes FWIW).

He's never even come close to doing as much defensively as he did last year and he still chipped in as many even strength points as DeAngelo, Hronek, Trouba, Klinberg, and Barrie despite being the only member of that group who was used in a shutdown role.

Leddy's performance last year is astoundingly underrated. There is a very good argument that he was the best D man on our team last year.

Leddy had at 1449.47 5 on 5 minutes, which is higher than most of his career, but still in line with his time on the Islanders. He put up career worst xGA/60 and bottom 3 GA/60. Basically every metric but notoriously finicky ones like giveaways/takeaways don't even sniff where he was regularly reaching in the front half of his career and that's not even mentioning that he had half of the point production. He may have been leaned on for defensive minutes, but that doesn't mean he succeeded in them. There's just no actual argument that last year was better than the seasons in Chicago or Long Island unless you are really squinting. You can say the Blues were bad, but but those Islanders teams weren't exactly powerhouses either.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Look at his usage though, throughout his career he was either sheltered as the offensive dman or used as the offensive leaning 2nd pair, and last season he went into an extreme shutdown pair. And while on a crappy team, it was the first time since 14/15 that he registered a positive rating.

He was criminally under-rated last year, and is a quality 2nd pairing guy, and if we had a guy like Petro, would make a great 1st partner pair with.

 

[Thallis]

Look at his usage though, throughout his career he was either sheltered as the offensive dman or used as the offensive leaning 2nd pair, and last season he went into an extreme shutdown pair. And while on a crappy team, it was the first time since 14/15 that he registered a positive rating.

He was criminally under-rated last year, and is a quality 2nd pairing guy, and if we had a guy like Petro, would make a great 1st partner pair with.

When he was in Long Island was used in a scenario that better suited his strengths, especially at the time. Just because he was used there doesn't mean he belongs there. He had a higher GA/60 5on5 than GF. For him to have the best season of his career, he would have had to succeed in that shut down role. He did not, he was just less of a problem that the 3 defenseman ahead of him which makes him look good by comparison.

 

[Xerloris]

When he was in Long Island was used in a scenario that better suited his strengths, especially at the time. Just because he was used there doesn't mean he belongs there. He had a higher GA/60 5on5 than GF. For him to have the best season of his career, he would have had to succeed in that shut down role. He did not, he was just less of a problem that the 3 defenseman ahead of him which makes him look good by comparison.

You can't just look at advanced stats and determine how someone played.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

He was deployed like an elite shutdown D man (for the first time in his career) and had the best defensive season of his career. More total takeaways than he's ever had and he posted a positive takeaway/giveaway ratio for the first time in his career. His +4 finish was the first time he's had a positive +/- since he was 23 years old. Finishing +4 while playing 19:10 at even strength for last year's Blues team is ridiculous. He and Buch were the only plus players who played 900+ minutes for the Blues last season (Leddy played 1648 minutes FWIW).

He's never even come close to doing as much defensively as he did last year and he still chipped in as many even strength points as DeAngelo, Hronek, Trouba, Klinberg, and Barrie despite being the only member of that group who was used in a shutdown role.

Leddy's performance last year is astoundingly underrated. There is a very good argument that he was the best D man on our team last year.

and yet morons like JR still think we would have to pay someone to take him.

 

[Brian39]

Leddy had at 1449.47 5 on 5 minutes, which is higher than most of his career, but still in line with his time on the Islanders.

...except for the first year there which happens to be the one where he put up great numbers. He played 16:12 a night at 5 on 5 that season vs mid-tier competition.

After that, he was elevated to a larger role. In the rest of his time on the Island, he played between 17:18 and 18:09 per night at 5 on 5. For reference, he was at 18:33 a night last year.

He put up career worst xGA/60 and bottom 3 GA/60. Basically every metric but notoriously finicky ones like giveaways/takeaways don't even sniff where he was regularly reaching in the front half of his career and that's not even mentioning that he had half of the point production.

In this stretch where he played 17+ 5 on 5 minutes a night on the Island, he went -58 over 440 games on a team that had a +53 goal differential over the same stretch. He had the worst +/- of any defender on the Islanders in 2015/16, 2017/18 (he was an astonishing -42 while the next worst was -9), 2018/19, and 2020/21. He was 2nd worst in 2019/20 and 3rd worst in 2016/17.

He was 2.45 GA per 60 at 5 on 5 in 2015/16, which was dead last among all 7 D who played 50+ games for the Isles. His 2.49 in 2016/17 was 4th on the team. His 3.49 in 2017/18 was last again. His 2.41 in 2018/19 was last again. His 2.55 in 2019/20 was 2nd to last. His 2.28 in 2020/21 was last again. The Isles were a significantly better team defensively than the Blues were last year. They allowed 2.76 goals per game while Leddy was logging top pair minutes while the Blues allowed 3.63 per game.

When the the Isle's team defense (and/or goaltending) is preventing .87 goals per game more than last year's Blues team and he is allowing more goals than everyone else in the top 4, I don't consider being in the mid-2s as more effective than being at 2.82 on the Blues (and being 1st among the top 4).

In his time with Chicago, he only had 1 season where he played more than 14 minutes a night at 5 on 5. In that season, his numbers were uglier than they were this year and he was being sheltered by Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson taking the hard minutes. He started in the O-zone 55% of time and only had 3 more even strength points.

I just don't agree that he was ineffective in his role this year. He went +4 overall. -3 at 5 on 5. That's succeeding when you're on the most defensively oriented top pair of the last decade. 23 even strength points basically playing even in that role is being effective.

His career high is 31 even strength points and that was the only time he hit 30. He's been a low-to-mid 20 even strength points guy pretty much his entire career in either offensive or balanced usage. The PP points do nothing for me. The Isles PP was 25th in the league over the years when he was there picking up 10-20 PP points a year as their top PP QB. He didn't demonstrate high end offensive ability on the PP that moves the needle for me.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

...except for the first year there which happens to be the one where he put up great numbers. He played 16:12 a night at 5 on 5 that season vs mid-tier competition.

After that, he was elevated to a larger role. In the rest of his time on the Island, he played between 17:18 and 18:09 per night at 5 on 5. For reference, he was at 18:33 a night last year.



In this stretch where he played 17+ 5 on 5 minutes a night on the Island, he went -58 over 440 games on a team that had a +53 goal differential over the same stretch. He had the worst +/- of any defender on the Islanders in 2015/16, 2017/18 (he was an astonishing -42 while the next worst was -9), 2018/19, and 2020/21. He was 2nd worst in 2019/20 and 3rd worst in 2016/17.

He was 2.45 GA per 60 at 5 on 5 in 2015/16, which was dead last among all 7 D who played 50+ games for the Isles. His 2.49 in 2016/17 was 4th on the team. His 3.49 in 2017/18 was last again. His 2.41 in 2018/19 was last again. His 2.55 in 2019/20 was 2nd to last. His 2.28 in 2020/21 was last again. The Isles were a significantly better team defensively than the Blues were last year. They allowed 2.76 goals per game while Leddy was logging top pair minutes while the Blues allowed 3.63 per game.

When the the Isle's team defense (and/or goaltending) is preventing .87 goals per game more than last year's Blues team and he is allowing more goals than everyone else in the top 4, I don't consider being in the mid-2s as more effective than being at 2.82 on the Blues (and being 1st among the top 4).

In his time with Chicago, he only had 1 season where he played more than 14 minutes a night at 5 on 5. In that season, his numbers were uglier than they were this year and he was being sheltered by Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson taking the hard minutes. He started in the O-zone 55% of time and only had 3 more even strength points.

I just don't agree that he was ineffective in his role this year. He went +4 overall. -3 at 5 on 5. That's succeeding when you're on the most defensively oriented top pair of the last decade. 23 even strength points basically playing even in that role is being effective.

His career high is 31 even strength points and that was the only time he hit 30. He's been a low-to-mid 20 even strength points guy pretty much his entire career in either offensive or balanced usage. The PP points do nothing for me. The Isles PP was 25th in the league over the years when he was there picking up 10-20 PP points a year as their top PP QB. He didn't demonstrate high end offensive ability on the PP that moves the needle for me.

leddy was much better last year than folks remember. parayko, given his usage, was better than we think too. but faulk was much worse last year than is generally understood.