Blues Trade Proposals 2023-2024

[jjniner]

Buch has to be resigned

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Buch has to be resigned

And if he doesn't want to? He's gonna be 30 years old after 2-3 years of a retool.

 

[Xerloris]

I don’t understand the thought process behind trading key players or futures for an upgrade at LHD.

I do understand why Armstrong wants to put a competitive roster on the ice vs tanking. I can’t imagine ownership is in a hurry to embrace a full rebuild and lose tons of money due to ticket sales, merchandise, and low interest in the team.

Can someone here that really would trade Kyrou or important futures for one of Hanifin or Sanheim explain their thoughts? Is getting one of these LHD putting the organization in a position for a deep playoff run? I’m really interested to hear the details.

In my opinion, the best possible thing for the organization is to be a bottom dweller next season. If the Blues could be in a bottom 10 team at the TDL it could really help speed up the rebuild process.

Buchnevich, Saad, Parayko, etc.. would all be available.

I fully understand prospects don’t necessarily equal a guarantee but it’s the right way to rebuild an organization. I don’t think a rebuild would take many years if the Blues could get some extra draft capital combined with another top 10 pick.

Anyway, that’s my thoughts. I have to hear from all the posters so adamant about upgrading 1 LHD position.

I'm not a fan of purposefully losing. I think you should always put your best effort onto the ice and with that said, Chabot does a lot more for us to be a contender than Kyrou.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I really, really want Hanafin. The question is, who do we give up to get him? I think Kyrou is an overpayment, but you have to give to get. I wonder what Conroy wants in return? Are the Flames looking to contend right away, or do they want prospects?

I don't see many worlds where trading for Hanafin makes alot of sense for us right now. He has no term, i'm sure in your idea you would expect some sort of an extension in place which could be beneficial. That being said, our cap structure becomes then extremely hard to work around dependent on the cap raise for the season after this coming season. I know CapFriendly tentatively has it raising to 87.5m and then 92m the season after. If that were the case, sure I think we'd be able to do something but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd imagine Hanifin would look for somewhere in the 7 x 7+ range maybe 8 x 8. What that leads to is having a large chunk of the cap hit locked up on a defense that isn't proven to work together or work at all.

We have 13m tied into Krug and Faulk for the next 4 years. 6.5m on Parayko for the next 7 years and 4m on Leddy for the next 3. So what you would be looking at essentially (when/if) a contract kicks in for Hanafin. 2 years of at least 30m+ tied in to a defense that you may not feel great about.

Lets look what it looks like if Hanifin would take an 8 year 7 million AAV contract here. Now this wont exclude moving a guy with a larger salary as it seems rather difficult to cut that much salary unless you're getting taken to the cleaners to do so.

We'd have a speculative roster of

Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Neighbors - Schenn - XXX
Saad - Hayes - XXX
XXX - XXX - XXX

Hanifin - Parayko
Leddy - Faulk
Krug - Tucker

Binnington
Hofer

Scratches: MacMac

With this setup you currently have around 10.7m if the cap does raise to 87m which i'd imagine is unlikely but possible. You also need to account for the following year if the cap for some reason does not increase you do owe raises to the following as they're expiring:
UFA: Buch, MacMac
RFA: Tucker, Neighbors, Hofer

Yes you could probably work in a few guys like possibly Bolduc, Snuggerud and maybe even Dvorsky. But it's hard to project out that they will be ready. Would hope Bolduc would be by that time though. 4th line shouldn't be too difficult I'd imagine that Alexandrov would either get a minimal extension, or Dean would be placed in and Toropchenko should be under contract then as well for a little over a million at most. Would have to imagine Neighbors by that time if he is slotted in to that role would be given a raise to near 2 million + on a bridge or we'd need to find a replacement. Hofer probably you could imagine the same if not more towards the 3-4 million range dependent if he's a long-term guy here. Buch alone will probably demand (if he is to come back after this contract) near 8-9m AAV which is a considerable raise from his current 5.8m hit.

There's not a lot of flexibility there cap wise. This also excludes what you are giving up to get Hanifin. I certainly would not feel comfortable giving up our first next season after this past season, and i'm not sure how comfortable i'd be moving it with protection. This certainly helps our defense out, but you have to consider what if the defensive unit itself isn't the whole issue and we as fans tend to take alot of blame off of Binnington and the forwards and shove it on to the defensive unit. There's a real likelihood of us looking at 2 more years of being a lottery team if not 3-4 to shed some of this salary to be able to fix our backend. I can't imagine we'd have a package enticing enough for them to move Hanifin that we could stomach without a 1st being attached in there, and we're pretty locked up with our current contracts especially if the outcome is moving the players with NTCs to Canadian teams. I don't doubt that we continue trying to find a trade that a player will accept to move out some salary, but I don't know how realistic it would be to stuff ourselves even more on the cap and think we wont put ourselves in a position that could really hurt us.

TLDR: Very risky and very hard to manuever cap wise. Probably lack ability to move out the cap to do so and lack the assets that we should be moving to make it doable.

 

[Xanadude]

I don't see many worlds where trading for Hanafin makes alot of sense for us right now. He has no term, i'm sure in your idea you would expect some sort of an extension in place which could be beneficial. That being said, our cap structure becomes then extremely hard to work around dependent on the cap raise for the season after this coming season. I know CapFriendly tentatively has it raising to 87.5m and then 92m the season after. If that were the case, sure I think we'd be able to do something but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd imagine Hanifin would look for somewhere in the 7 x 7+ range maybe 8 x 8. What that leads to is having a large chunk of the cap hit locked up on a defense that isn't proven to work together or work at all.

We have 13m tied into Krug and Faulk for the next 4 years. 6.5m on Parayko for the next 7 years and 4m on Leddy for the next 3. So what you would be looking at essentially (when/if) a contract kicks in for Hanafin. 2 years of at least 30m+ tied in to a defense that you may not feel great about.

Lets look what it looks like if Hanifin would take an 8 year 7 million AAV contract here. Now this wont exclude moving a guy with a larger salary as it seems rather difficult to cut that much salary unless you're getting taken to the cleaners to do so.

We'd have a speculative roster of

Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Neighbors - Schenn - XXX
Saad - Hayes - XXX
XXX - XXX - XXX

Hanifin - Parayko
Leddy - Faulk
Krug - Tucker

Binnington
Hofer

Scratches: MacMac

With this setup you currently have around 10.7m if the cap does raise to 87m which i'd imagine is unlikely but possible. You also need to account for the following year if the cap for some reason does not increase you do owe raises to the following as they're expiring:
UFA: Buch, MacMac
RFA: Tucker, Neighbors, Hofer

Yes you could probably work in a few guys like possibly Bolduc, Snuggerud and maybe even Dvorsky. But it's hard to project out that they will be ready. Would hope Bolduc would be by that time though. 4th line shouldn't be too difficult I'd imagine that Alexandrov would either get a minimal extension, or Dean would be placed in and Toropchenko should be under contract then as well for a little over a million at most. Would have to imagine Neighbors by that time if he is slotted in to that role would be given a raise to near 2 million + on a bridge or we'd need to find a replacement. Hofer probably you could imagine the same if not more towards the 3-4 million range dependent if he's a long-term guy here. Buch alone will probably demand (if he is to come back after this contract) near 8-9m AAV which is a considerable raise from his current 5.8m hit.

There's not a lot of flexibility there cap wise. This also excludes what you are giving up to get Hanifin. I certainly would not feel comfortable giving up our first next season after this past season, and i'm not sure how comfortable i'd be moving it with protection. This certainly helps our defense out, but you have to consider what if the defensive unit itself isn't the whole issue and we as fans tend to take alot of blame off of Binnington and the forwards and shove it on to the defensive unit. There's a real likelihood of us looking at 2 more years of being a lottery team if not 3-4 to shed some of this salary to be able to fix our backend. I can't imagine we'd have a package enticing enough for them to move Hanifin that we could stomach without a 1st being attached in there, and we're pretty locked up with our current contracts especially if the outcome is moving the players with NTCs to Canadian teams. I don't doubt that we continue trying to find a trade that a player will accept to move out some salary, but I don't know how realistic it would be to stuff ourselves even more on the cap and think we wont put ourselves in a position that could really hurt us.

TLDR: Very risky and very hard to manuever cap wise. Probably lack ability to move out the cap to do so and lack the assets that we should be moving to make it doable.

Exactly. I'm honestly fine with trading Kyrou-not clamoring for it, but I'm ok with it considering our immediate prospect depth is at wing (Snugs, Neighbors, Bolduc as I don't see him immediately playing center), let alone how many teams could give us a decent middle-six winger if we relieve their cap crunch-if we're getting a massive improvement for the top-4 AND Krug goes first. Otherwise the salary crunch we put ourselves in is monstrous and almost guarantees Buch is gone.

We should play it as it lays this year instead of trying to overthink moves. See if new coaching helps first unless someone takes all of Krug's salary off our hands and we have room to work with.

 

[Louie the Blue]

And if he doesn't want to? He's gonna be 30 years old after 2-3 years of a retool.

If he doesn't want to be extended prior to 2024-2025, then trade him early in the 2024 offseason or around the draft.

 

[TurgPavs]

The more you look at the cap, the more you have to think that the Blues will likely stand pat.
With the cap moving up next season roughly 4 million, that should open up some more opportunities to move out some contracts on the D side and possible in the forward group, should the Blues be sellers again at the TDL.

It really seems like the FO is putting a lot "Hope" into the coaching change, to improve the defense, however if it doesn't improve, IMO you are going to see a shift from a "retool" to a rebuild.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If we were a more solid playoff team, I'd push harder for Hanifin. We shouldn't and won't trade our 1st this year, unless there is some top 10 protection on it, and Hanifin would have to extend, something I'm not sure he'd do with where we are currently at.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I don't see many worlds where trading for Hanafin makes alot of sense for us right now. He has no term, i'm sure in your idea you would expect some sort of an extension in place which could be beneficial. That being said, our cap structure becomes then extremely hard to work around dependent on the cap raise for the season after this coming season. I know CapFriendly tentatively has it raising to 87.5m and then 92m the season after. If that were the case, sure I think we'd be able to do something but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd imagine Hanifin would look for somewhere in the 7 x 7+ range maybe 8 x 8. What that leads to is having a large chunk of the cap hit locked up on a defense that isn't proven to work together or work at all.

We have 13m tied into Krug and Faulk for the next 4 years. 6.5m on Parayko for the next 7 years and 4m on Leddy for the next 3. So what you would be looking at essentially (when/if) a contract kicks in for Hanafin. 2 years of at least 30m+ tied in to a defense that you may not feel great about.

Lets look what it looks like if Hanifin would take an 8 year 7 million AAV contract here. Now this wont exclude moving a guy with a larger salary as it seems rather difficult to cut that much salary unless you're getting taken to the cleaners to do so.

We'd have a speculative roster of

Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Neighbors - Schenn - XXX
Saad - Hayes - XXX
XXX - XXX - XXX

Hanifin - Parayko
Leddy - Faulk
Krug - Tucker

Binnington
Hofer

Scratches: MacMac

With this setup you currently have around 10.7m if the cap does raise to 87m which i'd imagine is unlikely but possible. You also need to account for the following year if the cap for some reason does not increase you do owe raises to the following as they're expiring:
UFA: Buch, MacMac
RFA: Tucker, Neighbors, Hofer

Yes you could probably work in a few guys like possibly Bolduc, Snuggerud and maybe even Dvorsky. But it's hard to project out that they will be ready. Would hope Bolduc would be by that time though. 4th line shouldn't be too difficult I'd imagine that Alexandrov would either get a minimal extension, or Dean would be placed in and Toropchenko should be under contract then as well for a little over a million at most. Would have to imagine Neighbors by that time if he is slotted in to that role would be given a raise to near 2 million + on a bridge or we'd need to find a replacement. Hofer probably you could imagine the same if not more towards the 3-4 million range dependent if he's a long-term guy here. Buch alone will probably demand (if he is to come back after this contract) near 8-9m AAV which is a considerable raise from his current 5.8m hit.

There's not a lot of flexibility there cap wise. This also excludes what you are giving up to get Hanifin. I certainly would not feel comfortable giving up our first next season after this past season, and i'm not sure how comfortable i'd be moving it with protection. This certainly helps our defense out, but you have to consider what if the defensive unit itself isn't the whole issue and we as fans tend to take alot of blame off of Binnington and the forwards and shove it on to the defensive unit. There's a real likelihood of us looking at 2 more years of being a lottery team if not 3-4 to shed some of this salary to be able to fix our backend. I can't imagine we'd have a package enticing enough for them to move Hanifin that we could stomach without a 1st being attached in there, and we're pretty locked up with our current contracts especially if the outcome is moving the players with NTCs to Canadian teams. I don't doubt that we continue trying to find a trade that a player will accept to move out some salary, but I don't know how realistic it would be to stuff ourselves even more on the cap and think we wont put ourselves in a position that could really hurt us.

TLDR: Very risky and very hard to manuever cap wise. Probably lack ability to move out the cap to do so and lack the assets that we should be moving to make it doable.

It only works if you move out contract like Krug. If you do that and sign him to extension the cap picture isn’t dramatically different than today but you have another foundation piece in place.

 

[kimzey59]

It really seems like the FO is putting a lot "Hope" into the coaching change, to improve the defense, however if it doesn't improve, IMO you are going to see a shift from a "retool" to a rebuild.

Or it could be as simple as there's no trade market right now.
It's not just the Blues that are having trouble moving D men.
Karlsson hsn't moved.
Hanafin hasn't moved.
Pesce and Skjei haven't moved.
Even the rumored TDA trade hasn't gone through.

Other than Columbus going stupid for Provorov and Severson; there hasn't been any real movement on the defensive market. Either something is holding things up, or the market just hasn't developed yet.

"Hope" has nothing to do with it.

 

[Brian39]

Trading Kyrou in a Chabot/EK 3 team deal......

Leaves the Blues with 9 defensemen on one way contracts totaling roughly 37 million.

I like Chabot, however the guy has played roughly 75% of regular season games the last 2 years, missing nearly 25% of games due to different injuries.

Trading Kyrou for Chabot when we still have Krug, Leddy, and Scandella on the roster makes absolutely ZERO sense.

Also who would we be acquiring to replace Kyrou’s offense?

To clarify my thought process:

2023/24 is very much a transition year. I don't give a damn if we don't replace the scoring for 2023/24 and have a wildly overpaid D group for 2023/24 if it means we've plugged a hole at LD for 5+ seasons. While I get that the organization wants to have a passable product this year to sell tickets, winning the Cup in 2023/24 isn't my goal. So if the roster construction is funky and flawed for 2023/24, that is totally fine with me if we find a long-term solution to a massive hole.

I don't view Scandella as a piece that will be here beyond 2023/24. If I can upgrade the LD long term and make the cap work this year, the presence of a made-redundant Scandella in 2023/24 is of zero concern to me. I think we could easily flip him for a pick, especially if the 2023/24 cap is situated to allow us to retain. I'm 100% fine acquiring a LD solution and then getting to work flipping Scandella.

I want Krug off the roster at the first opportunity and by just about any means necessary. Whether it is using the threat of waivers to get him to waive his NTC, waiving him directly, retaining a small amount of salary or (in the right circumstances) an eventual buyout. Long term, we need his contract off the books well before its natural expiration date. If I can upgrade the LD long term and make the cap work this year, I'm not passing on that just because we haven't yet jettisoned Krug. Krug as a true bottom pair LD and PP specialist is a luxury. The issue has been that it is a luxury that is difficult to afford with his contract. I'm fine using him that way while we work on executing an exit strategy.

Long term, we have a top 5 stable of forward prospects in the league. I'm very comfortable placing a bet that we can build a good offense without Kyrou in the medium-to-long term.

Thomas and Buch (who I would move mountains to extend when the time comes) are two no-doubt top line talents and should be for at least the medium term. Schenn should be a nice middle 6 player in the medium term as he regresses through his contract and Saad should be a good middle 6 guy through his remaining 3 years. Then we have five 1st round forward prospects developing outside the NHL and Neighbours developing at the NHL level. We should be able to get 3 (and maybe even 4) years of Torpo as an affordable bottom 6 guy. We should be able to get 3-5 years of Alexandrov as an affordable bottom 6 guy. If we were to move Kyrou, then I think one or two of Vrana, Kap, and Blais has real opportunity to work themselves into our medium-term plans. Maybe Hayes plays well enough to play out his contract here.

We have an abundance of forward talent in the organization in the medium-to-long term with a good mix of scoring ability and hockey IQ. Two of the 3 youngest prospects are high end prospect talents (a #10 pick in a great draft and a #23 who had a grand slam D+1 season) and a couple other prospects are entering their D+3 seasons. The offense is the absolute least of my medium-and-long term concerns with this organization.

Again, I'm not desperate to move Kyrou. I like Kyrou the player more than most on this board. I have no interest in trading him just for the sake of trading him and his contract doesn't really concern me. But I view him as less important to our long term plans as Thomas/Buch. My focus is on 2024 and beyond. I'm comfortable with the short term hit to the offense if it brings a long term fix to the defense.

 

[Brian39]

I don’t understand the thought process behind trading key players or futures for an upgrade at LHD.

I do understand why Armstrong wants to put a competitive roster on the ice vs tanking. I can’t imagine ownership is in a hurry to embrace a full rebuild and lose tons of money due to ticket sales, merchandise, and low interest in the team.

Can someone here that really would trade Kyrou or important futures for one of Hanifin or Sanheim explain their thoughts? Is getting one of these LHD putting the organization in a position for a deep playoff run? I’m really interested to hear the details.

In my opinion, the best possible thing for the organization is to be a bottom dweller next season. If the Blues could be in a bottom 10 team at the TDL it could really help speed up the rebuild process.

Buchnevich, Saad, Parayko, etc.. would all be available.

I fully understand prospects don’t necessarily equal a guarantee but it’s the right way to rebuild an organization. I don’t think a rebuild would take many years if the Blues could get some extra draft capital combined with another top 10 pick.

Anyway, that’s my thoughts. I have to hear from all the posters so adamant about upgrading 1 LHD position.

The LHD upgrade is about the long-term, not 2023/24. It needs to happen whether we acquire a guy right now, next summer, the following summer, develop an existing prospect, or get one through the draft.

I don't believe that prospect currently exists in the organization. I think Lindstein could become a 2nd pair caliber LHD and replaces Leddy. In a perfect world, he's a good 3rd pair LD in 2025/26 and plays well enough to slide up to the 2nd pair in 2026/27 when Leddy's deal expires. But I don't think we can bank on him being a top pair LHD in the next 4-5 years. And very likely not ever.

The odds of drafting a LHD in 2024 who is ready to be a top pair LHD by 2025/26 are pretty damn slim. The odds of drafting a guy ready for that role by 2026/27 aren't a ton better.

2016: Juolevi went #5, Sergachev went #8, Bean went #13 and McAvoy went #14. McAvoy was a top pair guy within that time range, but the other 3 weren't close.

2017: Heiskanen and Makar went #3 and #4 and both were top pair guys on the D+3 timeline. No D were drafted 5-13 and then 5 straight D were picked #14-#18. None of them have come close to top pair caliber.

2018: Dahlin went #1 and Q Hughes went #7. After that, there were 4 D picked 8-17 and none of them have become close to top pair caliber.

2019: Byram went #4, Seider went #6, Broberg went #8, Soderstrom went #12, and York went #14. Seider jumped straight into a top pair role in his D+3 season, but none of the others have gotten there.

2020: Sanderson went #5, Drysdale went #6, and Guhle went #16. Sanderson had a great rookie year as an arguable top pair D man in his D+3 season. Niether of the other two are close.

Most drafts just have a single guy who becomes top-pair-caliber by their D+3 season with a decent chunk of other guys drafted early who don't. More often than not, they are all off the board if you don't have a top 5 pick. Given the scarcity of these guys, you don't get to pick between LHD and RHD if you go this route. I don't think that banking on drafting such a guy next summer is a good strategy.

So now you're back to acquiring one via trade or free agency. If you can acquire a long-term solution now, you do it now. These guys are exceptionally hard to find.

 

[Reality Czech]

Or it could be as simple as there's no trade market right now.
It's not just the Blues that are having trouble moving D men.
Karlsson hsn't moved.
Hanafin hasn't moved.
Pesce and Skjei haven't moved.
Even the rumored TDA trade hasn't gone through.

Other than Columbus going stupid for Provorov and Severson; there hasn't been any real movement on the defensive market. Either something is holding things up, or the market just hasn't developed yet.

"Hope" has nothing to do with it.

It sure seems like most fans think it's easy to make big roster moves, when the exact opposite is true. Especially with the current cap situation. One big reason we ended up with Faulk and Krug is that the timing was right. The players were available and willing to commit long term in St. Louis. It seems to be that the best course is to be patient and see if the right situation comes along rather than trying to force a move right now which may do more harm than good long term.

The team isn't gonna compete for a Cup this year, not sure what the rush is. Paying assets to move Krug right this second, if it was even possible, would not be a wise move.

 

[Louie the Blue]

It sure seems like most fans think it's easy to make big roster moves, when the exact opposite is true. Especially with the current cap situation. One big reason we ended up with Faulk and Krug is that the timing was right. The players were available and willing to commit long term in St. Louis. It seems to be that the best course is to be patient and see if the right situation comes along rather than trying to force a move right now which may do more harm than good long term.

The team isn't gonna compete for a Cup this year, not sure what the rush is. Paying assets to move Krug right this second, if it was even possible, would not be a wise move.

I’d give up futures/players (depending on what they are) to move Krug to make room and acquire Sanheim, who I believe could be a long-term solution.

 

[Reality Czech]

I’d give up futures/players (depending on what they are) to move Krug to make room and acquire Sanheim, who I believe could be a long-term solution.

I'll admit I don't know much about Sanheim, but I find it hard to believe he would have enough of an impact to make it worth the cost of acquiring him + unloading Krug. Anyone know why he was 3rd in ice time on the Flyers, playing 1:40 less per game than Deangelo? I guess I just can't see why a 2/3D on one of the worst teams in the league could be that dominant 1LD that Blues fans crave so badly. He was also 3rd in ice time on the PK, playing 20 seconds less per game than Risto. We need a defensive minded guy but I'm reading that Sanheim is probably a bit more of an offensive guy than defensive stud. Based on what I'm reading he seems like a better version of Leddy, but not a real team defining player.

Regardless, if Briere is telling the truth then Sanheim isn't even available.

Briere Says Flyers’ Travis Sanheim Is Off The Trading Block

Early in the offseason, Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Travis Sanheim seemed to be a serious candidate to be traded. Along with most of his teammates. But Sanheim, in particular. Sanheim was coming off an up-and-down season after receiving a massive contract. He was healthy scratched by coach...

phillyhockeynow.com

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'll admit I don't know much about Sanheim, but I find it hard to believe he would have enough of an impact to make it worth the cost of acquiring him + unloading Krug. Anyone know why he was 3rd in ice time on the Flyers, playing 1:40 less per game than Deangelo? I guess I just can't see why a 2/3D on one of the worst teams in the league could be that dominant 1LD that Blues fans crave so badly. He was also 3rd in ice time on the PK, playing 20 seconds less per game than Risto. We need a defensive minded guy but I'm reading that Sanheim is probably a bit more of an offensive guy than defensive stud. Based on what I'm reading he seems like a better version of Leddy, but not a real team defining player.

Regardless, if Briere is telling the truth then Sanheim isn't even available.

Briere Says Flyers’ Travis Sanheim Is Off The Trading Block

Early in the offseason, Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Travis Sanheim seemed to be a serious candidate to be traded. Along with most of his teammates. But Sanheim, in particular. Sanheim was coming off an up-and-down season after receiving a massive contract. He was healthy scratched by coach...

phillyhockeynow.com

Sanheim was 2nd in EV TOI/game for Philly, DeAngelo had a 3 minute advantage from the PP, so that's why he had more total time.

 

[Reality Czech]

Sanheim was 2nd in EV TOI/game for Philly, DeAngelo had a 3 minute advantage from the PP, so that's why he had more total time.

Looks like he only averaged 11 seconds more per game at even strength than Tony D (18:02 to 17:51). And he got almost no PP time and the 3rd most PK time after Provy and Risto. Doesn't scream top pairing stud to me.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Looks like he only averaged 11 seconds more per game at even strength than Tony D (18:02 to 17:51). And he got almost no PP time and the 3rd most PK time after Provy and Risto. Doesn't scream top pairing stud to me.

I don't think anyone has claimed he's a top pairing stud, and that is one of the reasons I'd be worried about trading for him with an 8 year deal, and it's the main reason no one paid the price for him. Briere can say all he wants that he's off the trade block, but he absolutely wanted that contract gone at the draft.

 

[Reality Czech]

I don't think anyone has claimed he's a top pairing stud, and that is one of the reasons I'd be worried about trading for him with an 8 year deal, and it's the main reason no one paid the price for him. Briere can say all he wants that he's off the trade block, but he absolutely wanted that contract gone at the draft.

Another reason to be hesitant. Sanheim doesn't move the needle for me. Would rather wait and see what other opportunities come up going forward. I can't think of many situations where a team signs a guy to an 8 year extension and then trades him before he even starts year 1.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Another reason to be hesitant. Sanheim doesn't move the needle for me. Would rather wait and see what other opportunities come up going forward. I can't think of many situations where a team signs a guy to an 8 year extension and then trades him before he even starts year 1.

It was a completely different front office that signed the contract, but I don't really disagree. I do believe Sanheim would be a significant boost, but it's also a very big risk. We'd be going all in on the Sanheim/Parayko pairing, and if it doesn't work out, we'd be screwed.

 

[TurgPavs]

I’d give up futures/players (depending on what they are) to move Krug to make room and acquire Sanheim, who I believe could be a long-term solution.

Agree with this.

 

[TurgPavs]

To clarify my thought process:

2023/24 is very much a transition year. I don't give a damn if we don't replace the scoring for 2023/24 and have a wildly overpaid D group for 2023/24 if it means we've plugged a hole at LD for 5+ seasons. While I get that the organization wants to have a passable product this year to sell tickets, winning the Cup in 2023/24 isn't my goal. So if the roster construction is funky and flawed for 2023/24, that is totally fine with me if we find a long-term solution to a massive hole.

I don't view Scandella as a piece that will be here beyond 2023/24. If I can upgrade the LD long term and make the cap work this year, the presence of a made-redundant Scandella in 2023/24 is of zero concern to me. I think we could easily flip him for a pick, especially if the 2023/24 cap is situated to allow us to retain. I'm 100% fine acquiring a LD solution and then getting to work flipping Scandella.

I want Krug off the roster at the first opportunity and by just about any means necessary. Whether it is using the threat of waivers to get him to waive his NTC, waiving him directly, retaining a small amount of salary or (in the right circumstances) an eventual buyout. Long term, we need his contract off the books well before its natural expiration date. If I can upgrade the LD long term and make the cap work this year, I'm not passing on that just because we haven't yet jettisoned Krug. Krug as a true bottom pair LD and PP specialist is a luxury. The issue has been that it is a luxury that is difficult to afford with his contract. I'm fine using him that way while we work on executing an exit strategy.

Long term, we have a top 5 stable of forward prospects in the league. I'm very comfortable placing a bet that we can build a good offense without Kyrou in the medium-to-long term.

Thomas and Buch (who I would move mountains to extend when the time comes) are two no-doubt top line talents and should be for at least the medium term. Schenn should be a nice middle 6 player in the medium term as he regresses through his contract and Saad should be a good middle 6 guy through his remaining 3 years. Then we have five 1st round forward prospects developing outside the NHL and Neighbours developing at the NHL level. We should be able to get 3 (and maybe even 4) years of Torpo as an affordable bottom 6 guy. We should be able to get 3-5 years of Alexandrov as an affordable bottom 6 guy. If we were to move Kyrou, then I think one or two of Vrana, Kap, and Blais has real opportunity to work themselves into our medium-term plans. Maybe Hayes plays well enough to play out his contract here.

We have an abundance of forward talent in the organization in the medium-to-long term with a good mix of scoring ability and hockey IQ. Two of the 3 youngest prospects are high end prospect talents (a #10 pick in a great draft and a #23 who had a grand slam D+1 season) and a couple other prospects are entering their D+3 seasons. The offense is the absolute least of my medium-and-long term concerns with this organization.

Again, I'm not desperate to move Kyrou. I like Kyrou the player more than most on this board. I have no interest in trading him just for the sake of trading him and his contract doesn't really concern me. But I view him as less important to our long term plans as Thomas/Buch. My focus is on 2024 and beyond. I'm comfortable with the short term hit to the offense if it brings a long term fix to the defense.

I would add that I am not opposed to moving Kyrou in the right deal.
I would also say, that I am not opposed to moving Krug, CP, Faulk, or Leddy either.

I dont mind the Schenn and Saad contracts at all as they are solid leaders on the team.

To your point, the Blues really dont have a top pairing defensemen on their roster, or for that matter in their pipeline.....I really liked the Lindstein pick, but I am not sure he is going to develop into a 1st pairing guy.
So if moving Kyrou gets you a guy like Chabot, then game on.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

The LHD upgrade is about the long-term, not 2023/24. It needs to happen whether we acquire a guy right now, next summer, the following summer, develop an existing prospect, or get one through the draft.

I don't believe that prospect currently exists in the organization. I think Lindstein could become a 2nd pair caliber LHD and replaces Leddy. In a perfect world, he's a good 3rd pair LD in 2025/26 and plays well enough to slide up to the 2nd pair in 2026/27 when Leddy's deal expires. But I don't think we can bank on him being a top pair LHD in the next 4-5 years. And very likely not ever.

The odds of drafting a LHD in 2024 who is ready to be a top pair LHD by 2025/26 are pretty damn slim. The odds of drafting a guy ready for that role by 2026/27 aren't a ton better.

2016: Juolevi went #5, Sergachev went #8, Bean went #13 and McAvoy went #14. McAvoy was a top pair guy within that time range, but the other 3 weren't close.

2017: Heiskanen and Makar went #3 and #4 and both were top pair guys on the D+3 timeline. No D were drafted 5-13 and then 5 straight D were picked #14-#18. None of them have come close to top pair caliber.

2018: Dahlin went #1 and Q Hughes went #7. After that, there were 4 D picked 8-17 and none of them have become close to top pair caliber.

2019: Byram went #4, Seider went #6, Broberg went #8, Soderstrom went #12, and York went #14. Seider jumped straight into a top pair role in his D+3 season, but none of the others have gotten there.

2020: Sanderson went #5, Drysdale went #6, and Guhle went #16. Sanderson had a great rookie year as an arguable top pair D man in his D+3 season. Niether of the other two are close.

Most drafts just have a single guy who becomes top-pair-caliber by their D+3 season with a decent chunk of other guys drafted early who don't. More often than not, they are all off the board if you don't have a top 5 pick. Given the scarcity of these guys, you don't get to pick between LHD and RHD if you go this route. I don't think that banking on drafting such a guy next summer is a good strategy.

So now you're back to acquiring one via trade or free agency. If you can acquire a long-term solution now, you do it now. These guys are exceptionally hard to find.

I do think you sell Lindstein short. He could well become top pair LHD, defensively strong, excels in transition. The ideal partner for a more offensive top pair guy. No guarantee, but he is head and shoulders above any of our other D prospects. But to your point, that is at least 3-4 years off, maybe longer, if ever.

 

[Brian39]

I would add that I am not opposed to moving Kyrou in the right deal.
I would also say, that I am not opposed to moving Krug, CP, Faulk, or Leddy either.

I dont mind the Schenn and Saad contracts at all as they are solid leaders on the team.

To your point, the Blues really dont have a top pairing defensemen on their roster, or for that matter in their pipeline.....I really liked the Lindstein pick, but I am not sure he is going to develop into a 1st pairing guy.
So if moving Kyrou gets you a guy like Chabot, then game on.

I think both Parayko and Faulk are #2s. I don't think either is a legit #1, but I think that both are top pair caliber players. But we've been asking both to handle #1 minutes with #3, #4, or #5 caliber partners, which is setting a #2 caliber D man up for failure.

Faulk has been 9th and 10th in even strength points among all NHL D men in the last two seasons. It has required a high degree of sheltering for him to put up that production, but I don't think his defending is bad at all. I don't think he can be the centerpiece of a top pair, but I think he's absolutely good enough to be the 2nd guy on a good top pair.

Parayko has been 20th and 58th in even strength points among all D men in the last 2 years and in that time he has had the hardest shutdown responsibility in the league. He's also had a rotating door of partners with the absolute best one being Leddy (who I don't think is more than a #3 guy). He's absolutely a #2 in my book.

I think you're selling them way short if you don't think that they are top pairing guys. I'm not interested in moving either, because I think doing so immediately creates a very hard to fill hole.

 

[Beauterham]

I would add that I am not opposed to moving Kyrou in the right deal.
I would also say, that I am not opposed to moving Krug, CP, Faulk, or Leddy either.

I dont mind the Schenn and Saad contracts at all as they are solid leaders on the team.

To your point, the Blues really dont have a top pairing defensemen on their roster, or for that matter in their pipeline.....I really liked the Lindstein pick, but I am not sure he is going to develop into a 1st pairing guy.
So if moving Kyrou gets you a guy like Chabot, then game on.

I know most of you guys probably don't agree with me (and some of you have already told me that), but I'd absolutely try to move Saad either now or at the trade deadline. Saad will turn 31 in October, is signed for three more seasons at a AAV of 4.5 million a year. I wouldn't be surprised if Saad regresses a bit the coming years and thus lowering his value (I wouldn't even be surprised if his contract might even be considered 'bad' in a few years).

The Blues are not going to all out tank, but we're also probably not going to be competitive the next two/three-ish seasons, so we might as well try to move Saad for a pick/prospect and free up some extra capspace. I wouldn't expect a huge return, but gaining 4.5 million towards the cap while so many other teams are cashstrapped might already be worthwhile: we could either weaponize our capspace to get more assets by taking on a short term bad contract or actually use that capspace for a position we're in dire need for replacement. On a very short term, I'd try to sign Sundqvist to a low AAV contract and give Saad's rosterspot to the best out of Dean/Alexandrov/Bolduc or even Perunovich (if we go 13F/7D). Again, we're not going to tank but we're definitely also not aiming for the playoffs.

Combine moving Saad with potentially moving (and using our retainment slots on) Vrana, Kapanen and Scandella for assets at the trade deadline and I think we'd have a very solid foundation for the next couple of years with guys like Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc potentially coming up in the next couple of years and more than enough assets to move for improvements on Defense, etc.