Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[brokeu91]

I know I'm new to the boards. I am not trying to sound like a troll. But do you think that the blues should just blow up the team and start to rebuild? I mean if we get Tavares we might be contenders but right now we have an excellent first line and a bunch of third and fourth liners (plus Fabri depending on how he comes back). I'd rather suffer for 4-5 years and become legit contenders then sit back and be a middling team. I want to see a Stanley cup before I die.

 

[kimzey59]

I know I'm new to the boards. I am not trying to sound like a troll. But do you think that the blues should just blow up the team and start to rebuild? I mean if we get Tavares we might be contenders but right now we have an excellent first line and a bunch of third and fourth liners (plus Fabri depending on how he comes back). I'd rather suffer for 4-5 years and become legit contenders then sit back and be a middling team. I want to see a Stanley cup before I die.

No, because of what you said right here.
"Rebuilding" is what you do when you don't have a 1st line.
We do have a decent 1st line.
We have a huge collection of 3/4 liners and should be able to put 2 effective lines together with the group we have.
We also have our defense more or less in place(top 4 is set, 3rd pairing could use some work but that is easy to fix).
The biggest question is actually Allen in net, but Husso is in the pipeline and not too far from being NHL ready.

What the Blues need is a legit 2nd line. That isn't overly difficult to build, even through the UFA market. Moreover; we already have the pieces for a legit 2nd line, it's just a matter of giving them time to develop(Fabbri-Thomas-Kyrou could be a heck of line in a year or 2). Admittedly the Fabbri situation puts a bit of a cloud on that; but again, getting a legit 2nd liner to replace Fabbri isn't that hard to do even in the UFA market(Kane, Neal and JVR are all available this summer; and there is usually a similar pool every summer).

We could use some placeholders to give the kids more time; but we absolutely do not need to blow up the team to get what we need. The top end pieces are in place, it's a matter of adequately supplementing them.

 

[Shwabeal]

So some guy on the main boards created a thread that has a list of players that are going to the KHL next season, and Soshnikov was on his list. Can't find any other information about it outside of that same posters tweet that has the same list. Curious if there is actually any truth to it. I like Sosh has a 3rd or 4th line wing. Would be disappointed if he left.

 

[Frenzy31]

I know everyone is talking about trading CP. But I agree that we really don’t have much as for RHD unless Schmaltz really blows everyone away.

But we have a ton of LHD. Jaybo will be back, we have Dunn, Walman and Mikola (spelling). Gunnerson in December. In a year, we will have the Expansion draft.... and if we protect 4 d, well, we can only protect 4 forwards.

What about moving Joel Edmonton? It may be easier to replace him via free agency and internally. During the expansion draft we could just protect, Pie, Dunn, and CP and the extra forwards.....

He would have solid value etc... I don’t think the hole in losing him would be too big to fill. Jaybo has lost a step, but healthy he was solid #3, and Dunn is pretty close to that also. Mikola and Gunnerson could be solid bottom pairing guys.

 

[Thallis]

I know everyone is talking about trading CP. But I agree that we really don’t have much as for RHD unless Schmaltz really blows everyone away.

But we have a ton of LHD. Jaybo will be back, we have Dunn, Walman and Mikola (spelling). Gunnerson in December. In a year, we will have the Expansion draft.... and if we protect 4 d, well, we can only protect 4 forwards.

What about moving Joel Edmonton? It may be easier to replace him via free agency and internally. During the expansion draft we could just protect, Pie, Dunn, and CP and the extra forwards.....

He would have solid value etc... I don’t think the hole in losing him would be too big to fill. Jaybo has lost a step, but healthy he was solid #3, and Dunn is pretty close to that also. Mikola and Gunnerson could be solid bottom pairing guys.

I don't think Ed's perceived value around the league has caught up to what he actually brings. I wouldn't move him, especially because were thin on left handed D.

 

[Spektre]

I know I'm new to the boards. I am not trying to sound like a troll. But do you think that the blues should just blow up the team and start to rebuild? I mean if we get Tavares we might be contenders but right now we have an excellent first line and a bunch of third and fourth liners (plus Fabri depending on how he comes back). I'd rather suffer for 4-5 years and become legit contenders then sit back and be a middling team. I want to see a Stanley cup before I die.

The first rebuild failed. Army took the reigns in 2010-11. You can see what the roster was then @ > 2010–11 St. Louis Blues season - Wikipedia

The only players that remain are Pietrangelo, Berglund, Steen, & Sobotka for a 2nd tour of duty. This upcoming hockey season will be Army's 9th year as GM. He has quite a bit to do if winning the cup is the ultimate goal. It's beaten to death but the Blues have one line that can score and a whole bunch of blah. It's extremely doubtful Army is going to trade all of the blah. He's not going to count on Thomas, Kostin, Fabbri, Thompson, and Kyrou to make a legit 2nd line. It's always a possibility Thomas and Kyrou make the roster and have an impact. I would never expect either to take the NHL by storm and score 60+ points. Especially since they'll most likely be relegated to 3rd line minutes.

GM's can let the pressure of winning quickly turn into horrible decisions. I hope Army doesn't do something stupid but it's a pretty safe bet he's feeling the pressure now. It'll be interesting to see what changes he makes this off-season. I'm banking on the Blues not picking in the 1st round. To me that WPG pick is part of a trade until I see a Blues rep walking to the podium.

 

[Brian39]

The first rebuild failed. Army took the reigns in 2010-11. You can see what the roster was then @ > 2010–11 St. Louis Blues season - Wikipedia

The only players that remain are Pietrangelo, Berglund, Steen, & Sobotka for a 2nd tour of duty. This upcoming hockey season will be Army's 9th year as GM. He has quite a bit to do if winning the cup is the ultimate goal. It's beaten to death but the Blues have one line that can score and a whole bunch of blah. It's extremely doubtful Army is going to trade all of the blah. He's not going to count on Thomas, Kostin, Fabbri, Thompson, and Kyrou to make a legit 2nd line. It's always a possibility Thomas and Kyrou make the roster and have an impact. I would never expect either to take the NHL by storm and score 60+ points. Especially since they'll most likely be relegated to 3rd line minutes.

GM's can let the pressure of winning quickly turn into horrible decisions. I hope Army doesn't do something stupid but it's a pretty safe bet he's feeling the pressure now. It'll be interesting to see what changes he makes this off-season. I'm banking on the Blues not picking in the 1st round. To me that WPG pick is part of a trade until I see a Blues rep walking to the podium.

I know my point has also been beaten to death, but Alex Steen is squarely ahead of the 'blah' that is a lot of our middle 6 forward group. His contract isn't great, but he is still absolutely a well above average player on the ice and can absolutely be a contributing forward to a good 2nd line. He had 46 points (on pace for 49.5) and about 66% of those were at even strength. He was 123rd in the NHL in scoring last year, had decent possession numbers and did so in a moderately defensive role. He's absolutely a legit 2nd line forward. Barring the acquisition of 2-3 proven top 6 players over the summer, the only way Steen won't be counted on to make a legit 2nd line is if Fabbri proves that he is still a top 6 player and we have brought in at least 1 other proven top 6 guy.

I don't think Army will panic. I think you're correct that the Winnipeg pick likely is involved in a trade. However, I do think Army will be willing to trade some of the 'blah.' I don't expect him to shed $10+ mil in capo space by trading 3 contracts, but I expect him to move either Sobotka or Bergie (my money is on Sobotka unless a team really wants Bergie) and one of Gunnar or J-Bo by January. If acquisitions demand freeing up a bunch of cap space, I'd expect Gunnar gone by the start of camp, even if we have to pasy a 4th or later to get rid of him. Overall, I don't think we need to trade all of the 'blah' in order to drastically improve the forward group. Berglund isn't a dominant pllayer, but he's fine on a 3rd line that isn't full of AHL or healthy scratch level linemates.

The 2nd line needs to be addressed, but I think our 3rd line will be in pretty good shape if we adequately address the 2nd line. I think the 3rd line's biggest issue this year was that it was full of depth level players because our actual 3rd liners were being asked to fill in on the 2nd line.

 

[Mike Liut]

So some guy on the main boards created a thread that has a list of players that are going to the KHL next season, and Soshnikov was on his list. Can't find any other information about it outside of that same posters tweet that has the same list. Curious if there is actually any truth to it. I like Sosh has a 3rd or 4th line wing. Would be disappointed if he left.

He’s going to follow the Sobotka path... leave the US a fierce player who plays hard and loves to hit and comes back a big puss.

 

[ezcreepin]

I know my point has also been beaten to death, but Alex Steen is squarely ahead of the 'blah' that is a lot of our middle 6 forward group. His contract isn't great, but he is still absolutely a well above average player on the ice and can absolutely be a contributing forward to a good 2nd line. He had 46 points (on pace for 49.5) and about 66% of those were at even strength. He was 123rd in the NHL in scoring last year, had decent possession numbers and did so in a moderately defensive role. He's absolutely a legit 2nd line forward. Barring the acquisition of 2-3 proven top 6 players over the summer, the only way Steen won't be counted on to make a legit 2nd line is if Fabbri proves that he is still a top 6 player and we have brought in at least 1 other proven top 6 guy.

I don't think Army will panic. I think you're correct that the Winnipeg pick likely is involved in a trade. However, I do think Army will be willing to trade some of the 'blah.' I don't expect him to shed $10+ mil in capo space by trading 3 contracts, but I expect him to move either Sobotka or Bergie (my money is on Sobotka unless a team really wants Bergie) and one of Gunnar or J-Bo by January. If acquisitions demand freeing up a bunch of cap space, I'd expect Gunnar gone by the start of camp, even if we have to pasy a 4th or later to get rid of him. Overall, I don't think we need to trade all of the 'blah' in order to drastically improve the forward group. Berglund isn't a dominant pllayer, but he's fine on a 3rd line that isn't full of AHL or healthy scratch level linemates.

The 2nd line needs to be addressed, but I think our 3rd line will be in pretty good shape if we adequately address the 2nd line. I think the 3rd line's biggest issue this year was that it was full of depth level players because our actual 3rd liners were being asked to fill in on the 2nd line.

If I recall correctly, he was basically useless for the first 2 months of the season. He ended up with 46 points after having a pretty significant injury, and although his contract is pretty bad, it's not like it's the end of the world. After getting rid of Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson's cash, we will have quite a lot of money to sign our own players, and just a few years after that, Steen will probably have retired. Then it's the kids turn to make this their team, and hopefully the group we have assembled, along with prospects, will be contenders again. IF in some unlikely scenario that we get Tavares, then we will be perfectly fine for awhile, but assuming that doesn't happen, we absolutely have to get another 1b center that will be able to bring out the best of Tarasenko. Schenn was great, but anyone on a line with Schwartz and Schenn did well, so ideally we can trade for a playmaker.

 

[MissouriMook]

Steen had a pretty up and down season to be honest. If I'm looking for anything from his 2018/19 season it is to be more consistent, though it would obviously be best if was consistently a 0.7-0.8 PPG producer like he has been in the past. Here are his scoring numbers by month from last season:

Month/GP/G/A/PTS
OCT/7/1/4/5 (all but one assist came in one game against CGY)
NOV/12/2/5/7
DEC/16/1/7/8
JAN/11/7/4/11
FEB/13/2/6/8
MAR-APR/17/2/5/7
Total/76/15/31/46

 

[Dbrownss]

Does anything think getting Steen into a solid 3rd line role would help him? He's always bouncing around.

 

[HighNote]

Does anything think getting Steen into a solid 3rd line role would help him? He's always bouncing around.

Yes, Ideally I'd want Steen on the 3rd line, especially if Thomas is the 3C.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yes, Ideally I'd want Steen on the 3rd line, especially if Thomas is the 3C.

That's what I'm thinking. It would require a few other factors working out though. Acquire a top 6 winger or Fabbri actually being ready to go.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Does anything think getting Steen into a solid 3rd line role would help him? He's always bouncing around.

I think he’ll either be on the 3rd line with Thomas/Berglund, or on the 1st with TBA/Tarasenko. Really depends on Fabbri’s health, imo.

Ideally, we’d run

Steen/Fabbri-TBA-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-TBA
Fabbri/Steen-Thomas-Berglund
Barbashev-Brodziak-Soshnikov

 

[Brian39]

Does anything think getting Steen into a solid 3rd line role would help him? He's always bouncing around.

I think Steen is ideally the LW on the 3rd line with Thomas at center for the majority of the season.

However, he will still be relied on as a top 6 forward for this team in terms of usage and ice time. He'll still get PP time, will likely get PK time, he'll probably get double shifted occasionally in defensive situations and he'll slide up the lineup when injuries dictate. Putting him on the 3rd line will be in an effort to spread the talent out and give Thomas a skilled offensive option who isn't a liability defensively. If he's healthy, Fabbri will likely be on one of the top 2 lines since he is more dynamic, but I'd be surprised if he finishes within even a minute of Steen's average time on ice by the end of the season.

But yes, I do think he would benefit from consistency instead of being asked to plug holes in the lifeboat as they pop up.

 

[Stealth JD]

I think Steen is ideally the LW on the 3rd line with Thomas at center for the majority of the season.

However, he will still be relied on as a top 6 forward for this team in terms of usage and ice time. He'll still get PP time, will likely get PK time, he'll probably get double shifted occasionally in defensive situations and he'll slide up the lineup when injuries dictate. Putting him on the 3rd line will be in an effort to spread the talent out and give Thomas a skilled offensive option who isn't a liability defensively. If he's healthy, Fabbri will likely be on one of the top 2 lines since he is more dynamic, but I'd be surprised if he finishes within even a minute of Steen's average time on ice by the end of the season.

But yes, I do think he would benefit from consistency instead of being asked to plug holes in the lifeboat as they pop up.

Agreed. Ideally Army brings in 2 top-6 players and life is great with Steen-Thomas-Berglund/whoever as your 3rd line.
I've got no issues with slotting Steen into 2LW until he's forced down the line-up, but he is the ideal guy to pair with a rookie center.

 

[Thallis]

Yes, Ideally I'd want Steen on the 3rd line, especially if Thomas is the 3C.

I think it depends on who we get and how we're treating each line. If we get Tavares or someone similarly offensive minded, I agree. If we miss him, and get someone line O'Reilly and Nash, I would definitely roll that line to be a two way threat.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

We’re definitely all in the same boat here. Some with explanations better than mine.

Army isn’t dumb enough to just depend on getting Tavares, so I really expect him to get a RH shot guy at the draft, who can play C or RW in the top 6. Jeff Carter, Tyler Johnson, and Charlie Coyle are three players who immediately come to mind. If we miss on Tavares, we’d already have a guy who could be a top 6 C. If that happens, there’s a myriad of other directions Army could positively go. I’m expecting an all-in off-season, but with regards to the future as well.

 

[Stealth JD]

I hope everyone in the Blues organization is watching every second of this Nashville-Winnipeg series. Both teams are light-years ahead of the Blues, but it's not even in terms of talent...it's their tempo, and the constant attack. Both teams beat you with a counter-attack, and transition the puck so quickly up ice. When either team is down, they're capable of quickly eliminating multi-goal deficits and generating offense because they play as five-men units and execute their game-plan. Both clubs play offense as the most effective form of defense, and the primary focus is always about quickly getting the puck back up ice to attack. It's a hell of an effective plan when you've got the horses on the back-end who can shut down the oppositions top-lines and enough talent up front to capitalize on chances off of the rush. No reason Yeo shouldn't take a few pages out of Paul Maruice's notebook (lol - who'd have said that in the past decade?).

And seeing what Byfuglien is again doing in the playoffs (God help anyone in his path), there's no reason Parayko can't do exactly what he's seeing Buff do. A man of that size merely needs to exert his will upon his opponent, and there's not a damn thing they'll be able to do to stop him. Colt can be good, if not passive defenseman, or he can be an impact that teams have to game plan for, and be concerned about dealing with. Chara. Pronger. Byfuglien. Teams have their heads on a swivel every time those guys are/were on the ice. Blues need to challenge this guy to become the best version of himself that he could possibly be, but find the most effective way to deliver that message. Some guys need yelling and screaming from a coach, some guys need their manhoods questioned, some guys just need a good old fashioned wake-up call. If the Blues could unlock the potential trapped inside that chiseled Teddy Bear, they'd be contenders every damn year.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yeo's passive system isnt close to that though. Blues always look to contain the puck, not attack it. His transition game was fine for the most part

 

[Stealth JD]

Yeo's passive system isnt close to that though. Blues always look to contain the puck, not attack it. His transition game was fine for the most part

they could get the puck out ok...but that was pretty much that. the endless cycling and kicking the puck out to the point allowed the other team to get back and get set-up on defense far too often. The odd-man rushes are what the Blues need to be better at capitalizing on, like Nashville and Winnipeg.

 

[Jordeau]

I hope everyone in the Blues organization is watching every second of this Nashville-Winnipeg series. Both teams are light-years ahead of the Blues, but it's not even in terms of talent...it's their tempo, and the constant attack. Both teams beat you with a counter-attack, and transition the puck so quickly up ice. When either team is down, they're capable of quickly eliminating multi-goal deficits and generating offense because they play as five-men units and execute their game-plan. Both clubs play offense as the most effective form of defense, and the primary focus is always about quickly getting the puck back up ice to attack. It's a hell of an effective plan when you've got the horses on the back-end who can shut down the oppositions top-lines and enough talent up front to capitalize on chances off of the rush. No reason Yeo shouldn't take a few pages out of Paul Maruice's notebook (lol - who'd have said that in the past decade?).

And seeing what Byfuglien is again doing in the playoffs (God help anyone in his path), there's no reason Parayko can't do exactly what he's seeing Buff do. A man of that size merely needs to exert his will upon his opponent, and there's not a damn thing they'll be able to do to stop him. Colt can be good, if not passive defenseman, or he can be an impact that teams have to game plan for, and be concerned about dealing with. Chara. Pronger. Byfuglien. Teams have their heads on a swivel every time those guys are/were on the ice. Blues need to challenge this guy to become the best version of himself that he could possibly be, but find the most effective way to deliver that message. Some guys need yelling and screaming from a coach, some guys need their manhoods questioned, some guys just need a good old fashioned wake-up call. If the Blues could unlock the potential trapped inside that chiseled Teddy Bear, they'd be contenders every damn year.

You say that Nashville and Winnipeg are both light-years ahead of the Blues, not even in terms of talent, then go on to list a bunch of aspects of a transition-based system that HEAVILY depend on talent and skill. Quick tempo and transition, eliminating multi-goal deficits, generating offense as a five-man unit, offense as a form of defense, capitalizing off the rush. These all require lots of skill and talent to be used effectively. You can't just say "Yeo, take a look at what Maurice is doing and employ it in the Blues' system". On-ice personnel plays a huge role in the effectiveness of the system. If you were to trade our entire coaching staff for the Preds' or Jets', we wouldn't magically become a top-tier transition team. In fact, I would say that Yeo tried to implement a system similar to WPG/NSH. It's just a system that requires a lot of skill to execute the speed and tempo based styles effectively, which we don't have (or at least didn't for most of this season). Without the skill to make plays at high speeds, the amount of turnovers can heavily outweigh the benefits of the style.

I'm not saying Yeo's style is perfect, but it's incredibly hard to compare with Nashville's or Winnipeg's when they have so much more talent on the ice to execute it.

 

[Stealth JD]

You say that Nashville and Winnipeg are both light-years ahead of the Blues, not even in terms of talent, then go on to list a bunch of aspects of a transition-based system that HEAVILY depend on talent and skill. Quick tempo and transition, eliminating multi-goal deficits, generating offense as a five-man unit, offense as a form of defense, capitalizing off the rush. These all require lots of skill and talent to be used effectively. You can't just say "Yeo, take a look at what Maurice is doing and employ it in the Blues' system". On-ice personnel plays a huge role in the effectiveness of the system. If you were to trade our entire coaching staff for the Preds' or Jets', we wouldn't magically become a top-tier transition team. In fact, I would say that Yeo tried to implement a system similar to WPG/NSH. It's just a system that requires a lot of skill to execute the speed and tempo based styles effectively, which we don't have (or at least didn't for most of this season). Without the skill to make plays at high speeds, the amount of turnovers can heavily outweigh the benefits of the style.

I'm not saying Yeo's style is perfect, but it's incredibly hard to compare with Nashville's or Winnipeg's when they have so much more talent on the ice to execute it.

Both of those teams are currently deeper than the Blues up-front, no doubt...but if the Blues add 3 new bodies (UFA, trade, promotion) they suddenly aren't out-manned. But I would argue they'd still be at a disadvantage due to their pace and tendency to focus on the play within their own end of the ice. Even when the Blues do attack, it's rarely as a 5-man unit, unless they're down a goal or two late. To your point, when the Blues were healthier early in the season and showed tremendous amounts of success playing that style of hockey. They were missing Fabbri...but they were still effective. Whether it was coaching, or confidence or whatever, 6 week injuries to players shouldn't completely change the complexion of a team as we saw from Oct/Nov to Dec-Mar. That's as much on Yeo as anyone, considering his history of having it happen. There were weeks this season when you wondered how in the heck this team would generate more than 1 goal of offense, if that...with guys like Steen, Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, Schenn, Parayko & Berglund healthy. That's not about talent.

i don't know...it's the level of play, and hesitation. they definitely have lost their swagger...but it shouldn't be too much to rediscover with a solid off-season and seeing what is successful for post-season participants who have made the Blues' level of play look like the minor leagues.

 

[Dbrownss]

they could get the puck out ok...but that was pretty much that. the endless cycling and kicking the puck out to the point allowed the other team to get back and get set-up on defense far too often. The odd-man rushes are what the Blues need to be better at capitalizing on, like Nashville and Winnipeg.

They need to up the tempo/aggression of their play too.

 

[LastWordArmy]

What to expect from the blues defence next year.

What to Expect from the St. Louis Blues Defence Next Year - Last Word on Hockey