Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

That’s too bad...but wasn’t even aware Barbs was in consideration for Team Russia at the WC.

Any idea what the injury is or the severity?

Also, I assume Soshnikov will be playing for Russia in the WC?

He made the cut for another round of EHT, making the team won't be easy as Panarin is now available, CSKA and Ak Bars players also joined

 

[execwrite1]

Watching the playoffs (some great series) makes me even more convinced that the Blues have a real chance to compete for a Cup if the Big Four (Thompson, Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin) can prove to be the real deal.

 

[Stealth JD]

Watching the playoffs (some great series) makes me even more convinced that the Blues have a real chance to compete for a Cup if the Big Four (Thompson, Thomas, Kyrou, Kostin) can prove to be the real deal.

what constitutes "real deal"? What if all four become 2nd-3rd liners putting up between 35-55 points? Is that really all that impactful? We'd finally be about league average for scoring. In order to get into Championship-contention, I'm thinking you're going to need three more top-6 players to go with Schwartz, Schenn & Tarasenko. I don't see any of those four ready for that kind of role any time soon.

They'd essentially need to become a Nylander or Marner, to push this roster over the top...but nothing indicates that they're on that level of prospect, as Brian pointed out. Maybe we'll get lucky and ONE of those guys comes close...someday.

 

[TruBlu]

Anyone who comes here needs to create their own points. We currently have no offensive prowess.

 

[Ranksu]

Anyone who comes here needs to create their own points. We currently have no offensive prowess.

Well, how much hype we got from TT and he showed he's is max out 3rd liner. Berglund, but better wheels, hands and shot.

 

[Dbrownss]

Well, how much hype we got from TT and he showed he's is max out 3rd liner. Berglund, but better wheels, hands and shot.

Oh wow....he's already peaked at age 20 in his first pro year?

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Oh wow....he's already peaked at age 20 in his first pro year?

Patrik Berglund pretty much did.

(PS I don't think Thompson has come close to peaking.)

 

[Majorityof1]

The draft lottery is coming up. IF the Blues get lucky and fall into the top ten--say #8--that should be enough to get a pretty darn good winger in a trade, right? Tiny chance sure, but there's not much probability of some of these other ideas working out either. That has the beauty of fixing a major problem AND keeping all our good young players. One can dream.

#8 is impossible. There is 0 chance we get #4-13. The lottery is only for the first 3 picks. After that, everyone gets filtered in by standings. We can either pick 1, 2, or 3, otherwise we give Philly either the 14th or 15th pick. Since we had the 2nd best record of the 15 non-playoff teams, we are slotted at 14th (14th worst record). If we win one of the first 3 picks, we obviously get that pick. If Florida (15th worst) wins won of those picks and we don't, they leap frog us and we fall to 15th. Otherwise, we are 14th. Either 14th or 15th goes to Philly. We have a 1.5% chance to win the 1 OA and a 5% chance to win any of the picks 1-3.

 

[Bluesfan54]

#8 is impossible. There is 0 chance we get #4-13. The lottery is only for the first 3 picks. After that, everyone gets filtered in by standings. We can either pick 1, 2, or 3, otherwise we give Philly either the 14th or 15th pick. Since we had the 2nd best record of the 15 non-playoff teams, we are slotted at 14th (14th worst record). If we win one of the first 3 picks, we obviously get that pick. If Florida (15th worst) wins won of those picks and we don't, they leap frog us and we fall to 15th. Otherwise, we are 14th. Either 14th or 15th goes to Philly. We have a 1.5% chance to win the 1 OA and a 5% chance to win any of the picks 1-3.

I wasn't aware of that little wrinkle, thanks. So all the Blues have to do is get #3. Piece of cake! Heck, that's still more likely to happen than most of the proposals I've seen.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

#8 is impossible. There is 0 chance we get #4-13. The lottery is only for the first 3 picks. After that, everyone gets filtered in by standings. We can either pick 1, 2, or 3, otherwise we give Philly either the 14th or 15th pick. Since we had the 2nd best record of the 15 non-playoff teams, we are slotted at 14th (14th worst record). If we win one of the first 3 picks, we obviously get that pick. If Florida (15th worst) wins won of those picks and we don't, they leap frog us and we fall to 15th. Otherwise, we are 14th. Either 14th or 15th goes to Philly. We have a 1.5% chance to win the 1 OA and a 5% chance to win any of the picks 1-3.

pfft a girl in high school gave me 5% chance of a date once, you know what i did? I tried and tried and we will be picking at 14th lol

 

[Ranksu]

pfft a girl in high school gave me 5% chance of a date once, you know what i did? I tried and tried and we will be picking at 14th lol

 

[PiggySmalls]

Well done Blues fans.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Well done Blues fans.

St. Louis really does love hockey.

It feels like the city is always near the top of ratings and viewership lists like that.

 

[Brian39]

what constitutes "real deal"? What if all four become 2nd-3rd liners putting up between 35-55 points? Is that really all that impactful? We'd finally be about league average for scoring. In order to get into Championship-contention, I'm thinking you're going to need three more top-6 players to go with Schwartz, Schenn & Tarasenko. I don't see any of those four ready for that kind of role any time soon.

They'd essentially need to become a Nylander or Marner, to push this roster over the top...but nothing indicates that they're on that level of prospect, as Brian pointed out. Maybe we'll get lucky and ONE of those guys comes close...someday.

This is the first season in years where we have been below average in scoring. We were 12th and 15th the 2 prior seasons . Before that we were 5th and 7th. The lockout shortened season was the last time we were below average in scoring until this past season (17th that year). I get that our offense currently needs lots of work, but we aren't exactly an offense-starved franchise over the past half decade.

In terms of the impact needed from our prospects, our top line is fantastic. We don't need any prospect to leapfrog Schwartz, Schenn or Tarasenko in the next 3-4 years. Getting 55 point production out of 2 of the prospects would give us a pretty damn good top 6, especially if it is bolstered by one acquisition from outside the organization. Combined with quality 3rd line production out of a couple more prospects (and Steen), that would absolutely put our offense among the best in the league. Getting 50+ point production out of 5 forwards, 45-50 point production our of a D man and solid 3rd line production absolutely puts you among the league's best offense (assuming you have a guy or two getting into the upper 60s). My issue is that I don't think it's a lock that 2 of our prospects are 55 point players in the next 3 years.

 

[Brian39]

You misunderstand me. I said it's relatively easy to trade for top 6 wingers, and it is. That's not the same as saying all top 6 wingers are easy or cheap to acquire.

Nylander might be a "top line guy" by points, but he's clearly not by usage or ability to carry a line. He's certainly not playing at that level right now in the playoffs, either. Can he reasonably be expected to do more for the Blues next year than a guy like Simmonds or Hoffman, or the year after that (assuming we had them, or someone similar, for another year on top of that)? I don't see that argument. Nylander's performance as a top 6 center is purely theoretical as well. He hasn't done it, and based upon how he looks now, I don't think the Blues would be comfortable with him being their primary option to hold down that role next year.

Nylander's value far exceeds that of the relatively low hanging fruit largely because of his age, cost, and perceived upside. The Blues don't need any of those things to round out their top six scoring depth for next year, or the year after that. Beyond that, the Blues have internal options that can likely fill (to some reasonable degree) those roster holes for free.

The goal is to round out a flawed roster, not to find something young and fancy at the expense of creating more roster headaches. Hoffman (at 25ish goals and 50ish points), or someone like him, could reasonably be expected to help approximately as much as Nylander over that span at a fraction of the price tag, and without any of the resulting roster complications. Someone like Hoffman is almost always available at the deadline as well...sometimes a number of such players.

I don't think it's a stretch to say it's unlikely that Armstrong is going to be chasing a Nylander type of player this offseason. For my part, I don't think he should either, if the cost includes Parayko. It just doesn't make any sense to me, and I doubt that Armstrong's preferences skew toward youth/upside when addressing significant roster holes in the same way that the average fan's preferences around here do.

I absolutely think that Marner and Nylander will be better players next season than Hoffman, especially if Hoffman becomes a Blue and is asked to play RW. I think they will very likely be better players than Wayne Simmons next year, although Simmons is a much better fit on the Blues than Hoffman IMO. Both Nylander/Marner fit the speed/skill identity we appear to be crafting better than Hoffman/Simmonds.

I don't trust any of our prospects to consistently match Nylander or Marner over the next 5 years. I think they can match the 'low hanging fruit' guys you are talking about in that window at a controlled cost, but if that's all they do, then we will need to supplement them with more guys from outside the organization. If we just get a stop gap solution now, I firmly believe we will either need to overpay that stop gap for declining production for years 3-6 or spend more assets to bring in more low hanging fruit. I believe that there is serious merit to trading Parayko to plug that hole with 'high hanging fruit' than spending two to three 1sts plus two or three prospects to repeatedly plug that same hole in 2 year increments with low hanging fruit. Especially since a lot of the low hanging fruit rumored to be available this summer still leaves us with no right hand shot in the top 6 or presumptive PP units.

I'm not sure I love Parayko for Nylander straight up. I'd do Parayko for Marner straight up in a heartbeat, but I'd probably need the Leafs to either add slightly to Nylander in some way (I think it would need to be a package where both teams are sending 2+ assets and some short-term bad money going Toronto's way). My point is that Parayko shouldn't be off the table for Nylander discussions.

 

[simon IC]

The problem with trading Parayko is the hole you open up on RD. We do not have a candidate to fill that hole internally. Schmaltz is no where near Parayko's level, and IMO, probably never will be. Bortuzzo as a 2nd RD? I love me some Borts, but Yikes! So if we trade Parayko for Nylander or Marner, we then have to make another trade for that RD. That will bleed away more assets, as D tend to be expensive. I agree that Parayko should never be off the table. I am however, challenging the idea that we have a wealth of D that needs to be exchanged for more goals.

 

[Thallis]

Well, how much hype we got from TT and he showed he's is max out 3rd liner. Berglund, but better wheels, hands and shot.

He doesn't have a better shot than Berglund.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

The problem with trading Parayko is the hole you open up on RD. We do not have a candidate to fill that hole internally.

Someone Que the deadhorse meme.

We are well aware we have no internal replacements, the few of us that would be OK shipping Colt for the right FWD realize a replacement on RD would also have to be found externally.

 

[BlueDream]

The problem with trading Parayko is the hole you open up on RD. We do not have a candidate to fill that hole internally. Schmaltz is no where near Parayko's level, and IMO, probably never will be. Bortuzzo as a 2nd RD? I love me some Borts, but Yikes! So if we trade Parayko for Nylander or Marner, we then have to make another trade for that RD. That will bleed away more assets, as D tend to be expensive. I agree that Parayko should never be off the table. I am however, challenging the idea that we have a wealth of D that needs to be exchanged for more goals.

If you don’t trade Parayko for a forward then you are going to have to use those assets for the forward instead. So if we have to use them for a Parayko replacement, what is really the difference? In the end, you’re really still giving and gaining equal parts.

I think people freak out about this stuff too easily. All we need to do is find the easiest way to get a top 6 center. Yes let’s try to use our futures first. If that doesn’t do it and we have to trade Parayko, then it’s something to be considered. And then, yes, we can explore a trade to replace him. Does that require more work? Sure. But it’s not impossible.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I absolutely think that Marner and Nylander will be better players next season than Hoffman, especially if Hoffman becomes a Blue and is asked to play RW. I think they will very likely be better players than Wayne Simmons next year, although Simmons is a much better fit on the Blues than Hoffman IMO. Both Nylander/Marner fit the speed/skill identity we appear to be crafting better than Hoffman/Simmonds.

You're only talking about one half of the equation. Any gain on the forward end is likely going to be mitigated by the downgrade on the defensive end...unless you think replacing someone of Parayko's ability (who, for my money, is our second best all-around defenseman) is a given? It shouldn't be. I can pretty much guarantee you that Parayko is also a better fit for how the Blues want to play than anyone they might be able to replace him with.

We know borderline 1st line wingers are available, and we see players like that change teams relatively often. What borderline RH #1 defensemen are available? How often do those players get moved? That part of this discussion is being left conveniently abstract. Armstrong isn't going to need concrete options, not abstractions.

I don't trust any of our prospects to consistently match Nylander or Marner over the next 5 years. I think they can match the 'low hanging fruit' guys you are talking about in that window at a controlled cost, but if that's all they do, then we will need to supplement them with more guys from outside the organization. If we just get a stop gap solution now, I firmly believe we will either need to overpay that stop gap for declining production for years 3-6 or spend more assets to bring in more low hanging fruit.

Why do they need to match Nylander/Marner? Are you saying adding a couple of 20 goal/50 point guys isn't enough to make this team a contender? I disagree with that premise. Why would the Blues need to extend the stopgap solution or bring in another for years 3-6 if a couple of our prospects reach that (very reachable) level after a couple of years? And how would adding Nylander (currently a 20 goal, 60 point guy) instead of a 20 goal/50 point stopgap somehow mitigate that future need entirely? That doesn't make any sense to me. There isn't a massive impact gap between those players.

I believe that there is serious merit to trading Parayko to plug that hole with 'high hanging fruit' than spending two to three 1sts plus two or three prospects to repeatedly plug that same hole in 2 year increments with low hanging fruit. Especially since a lot of the low hanging fruit rumored to be available this summer still leaves us with no right hand shot in the top 6 or presumptive PP units.

I'm not sure I love Parayko for Nylander straight up. I'd do Parayko for Marner straight up in a heartbeat, but I'd probably need the Leafs to either add slightly to Nylander in some way (I think it would need to be a package where both teams are sending 2+ assets and some short-term bad money going Toronto's way). My point is that Parayko shouldn't be off the table for Nylander discussions.

Now you're assuming that the hole at RHD won't become an asset sink that won't require an overpay or repeated plugging. This is a curious assumption given that we actually have fast, talented, promising internal RH forward prospects for the center and RW positions, but we have absolutely nothing that comes close to filling the hole you're willing to open on the defense. Also, there's also nobody except for Carlson, who is going to absolutely paid, that could fill that hole available in UFA. A trade is the Blues only recourse, so where is this potential defenseman coming from? I can't think of anyone who has quality RHD to spare, much less one that is young enough, cheap enough, and under team control long enough to be considered a viable long-term patch for the hole.

I think BlueDream hit the nail on the head when he said it's all about finding the path of least resistance, because the asset cost will be there either way if you're looking for high quality pieces or long-term solutions. What's the point of mapping out half the plan (Parayko for X) if the other half is completely speculative and unlikely to materialize? Especially if there's no internal backup plan, either short or long term?

The straightforward solution is to plug the top 6 holes by getting the best forwards you can get for the assets you consider to be expendable (i.e. not current fixtures in your competitive roster, and not prospects you absolutely need to hang onto). We can ultimately agree to disagree about the viability of our hypothetical discussion of alternate paths, but in real life I think the straightforward solution is the one that Armstrong will ultimately pursue. I would be absolutely shocked if Armstrong traded Parayko to address his concerns at forward this offseason.

 

[Ranksu]

He doesn't have a better shot than Berglund.

Berglund had decent slapper which had power on it, but nowadays its just wrister which is still affective, but no way near as leathal then TT's shot. Only problem with TT is that he hasn't grow in his body yet so he struggle to keep up NHL level, he'll be much mature next season, but I doubt not ready for yet. That affects his shot too, which is there we've seen those shot last season, but not showed yet in full power. Easily TT has edge on who has better shot.

He had only 3 goals last season.







Wow, didn't find any good videos about Berglund straight shot (2018), they were all tip ins, rebound goals, deflections or back hand shots. I know there few goals were he shoot the puck, but didn't find it. Ofc there is videos about 6/7-years ago where he shoot slapper etc which has sick power and accurate as hell, but nowadays not single one.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I am but mad north-northwest. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw. You don’t trade Parayko

 

[542365]

Well done Blues fans.

It's crazy how much this town loves sports. We'll probably always be a Cardinals first city, but the other sports(especially hockey and soccer) draw a lot of attention. We did poorly in the Superbowl ratings IIRC, but there are obviously some extenuating circumstances there.

 

[PiggySmalls]

For those that haven't noticed.

Pietrangelo nominated for King Clancy Memorial Trophy

 

[Memento]

For those that haven't noticed.

Pietrangelo nominated for King Clancy Memorial Trophy

Pietro is all class, and I hope he's a Blue for life.