Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[Zamadoo]

An Islanders fan in a main board thread said that Tavares and Couture don’t really like each other, going back to Juniors. Wonder if that’s factual and if it’d have any bit of an impact.

This is very interesting. Some have mentioned that Tavares and Petro are friends, and I read Petro's article that supports that claim. Eberle was also mentioned in the article as the guy with the game winning goal to beat their Blues team way back. It was also rumoured that Tavares and Eberle were friends, which is why the Islanders traded for Eberle. I wonder if the Islanders would consider a trade involving Tavares' rights and Eberle before UFA starts, or if the Blues would want to make that trade.

 

[STL fan in MN]

This is very interesting. Some have mentioned that Tavares and Petro are friends, and I read Petro's article that supports that claim. Eberle was also mentioned in the article as the guy with the game winning goal to beat their Blues team way back. It was also rumoured that Tavares and Eberle were friends, which is why the Islanders traded for Eberle. I wonder if the Islanders would consider a trade involving Tavares' rights and Eberle before UFA starts, or if the Blues would want to make that trade.

It would take some pretty insane Cap maneuvering to fit both Tavares ($10-12M AAV) and Eberle ($6M AAV) under the Cap.

 

[Kind Sir]

This is very interesting. Some have mentioned that Tavares and Petro are friends, and I read Petro's article that supports that claim. Eberle was also mentioned in the article as the guy with the game winning goal to beat their Blues team way back. It was also rumoured that Tavares and Eberle were friends, which is why the Islanders traded for Eberle. I wonder if the Islanders would consider a trade involving Tavares' rights and Eberle before UFA starts, or if the Blues would want to make that trade.

I don't think Snow can trade Tavares's rights at this point; I think that ship sailed at the trade deadline....?

 

[Dbrownss]

I don't think Snow can trade Tavares's rights at this point; I think that ship sailed at the trade deadline....?

He can still trade them but the Blues cant sign him to a 8yr deal. Only the team holding his rights at the TDL can offer 8yrs

 

[Kind Sir]

He can still trade them but the Blues cant sign him to a 8yr deal. Only the team holding his rights at the TDL can offer 8yrs

Kinda defeats the purpose to trade for rights that don't include the thing you'd be trading for, that eighth year.

 

[Dbrownss]

Kinda defeats the purpose to trade for rights that don't include the thing you'd be trading for, that eighth year.

You get exclusive access to him. Goligoski had no intentions on signing in Arizona till they traded for his rights.

 

[Zamadoo]

It would take some pretty insane Cap maneuvering to fit both Tavares ($10-12M AAV) and Eberle ($6M AAV) under the Cap.

Definitely, but it could be doable if the cap rises above $78mil. NYI has a lot of contracts expiring this off season, so I could see them taking on contracts like Allen, Jaybo, Gunnar, Sobotka, and/or Berglund. I would agree that it's a long shot at best.

 

[Kind Sir]

You get exclusive access to him. Goligoski had no intentions on signing in Arizona till they traded for his rights.

A.....fifth-round draft pick. Just not seeing value for any team to bargain higher for an agent's phone #.

Edit: No snark. JT is a completely different situation; the only reason a GM gives up assets at this point is to match any offer + the eighth year.

 

[Dbrownss]

A.....fifth-round draft pick. Just not seeing value for any team to bargain higher for an agent's phone #.

Yea, his rights aren't going to return some earth shattering value. I could see a team that has personal knowledge that he wants to play for them not risking him talking to another team and sending a 2nd/3rd at max

 

[Brian39]

My opinion is Army should shop Parayko and see what the possibilities are. If Nylander, Keller, or a Marner type player is the return it should be an extremely easy decision. I don't know what teams would be willing to part with but Parayko has to be a coveted asset being RHD. Adam Larsson returned Taylor Hall. It's time for fans to realize this NHL is about scoring more than defense. Defense is nice, and your team has to play a sound game, but to me the forwards are the biggest determining factor in success. Not only are they the scoring aspect, but if they both back check and fore-check aggressively it decides the game in most cases.

If Army trades Parayko this team could have a big turnaround this off-season. That doesn't have to be the only move to bolster the top 6. In a Parayko deal I'd target young RFA types that would not only help the top 6 but be cost effective as well. It just makes too much sense to not see what teams would offer.

I agree that Army should be shopping Parayko, but should only pull the trigger on a trade if they can get a return like Hall. I don't think they should be actively trying to move him no matter what, but they should be calling teams like Toronto and saying, "the entire hockey world knows that you have an abundance of offense and need D. We've got a hell of a D man for you, but it's going to cost Nylander or Marner." I think the entire hockey world knows that Larsson for Hall was a complete fleece job, but most people view Parayko as a clearly better D man than Larsson while having similar contract term as Larsson at the time he was traded (4 years remaining vs 5). I think Army can make a compelling case that Parayko should return that type of young forward and I think Toronto would have to think long and hard about accepting.

Toronto is in great shape with the cap moving forward, but Matthews/Marner/Nylander are going to eat up a lot of that cap. Keeping all 3 is going to make it very difficult for them to address the blueline via free agency since D men consistently make absurd money in UFA. I don't think they have the D prospects to solve their blueline internally for at least the next 2 seasons and I think they are in need of two true top 4 D men to be contenders. I don't see how they can fix that via UFA after tying up $20+ mil in those 3 forwards, so I think it makes a lot of sense for them to make a decision about which 2 to keep and use the 3rd to acquire the right shot D mane they desperately need. Taking his contract into consideration, Parayko very well may be the best thing available to them beyond a rental (and they absolutely shouldn't be including Nylander/Marner in a trade for a guy who may or may not walk for nothing in a year or two).

Nylander and Marner are both right shot RWs who might be able to play center (although I think Nylander has a much, much better chance of being able to make that transition than Marner). I tend to think Nylander is slightly more available than Marner and fits our roster better, but either would fill a glaring organizational need and would be a long term solution instead of a stopgap. I love Parayko, but that's the type of deal I'd be willing to move him for.

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah, I do agree that we should explore possibilities for Parayko. I’m warming up to that idea now.

The main reason being is that I think looking back at it, we probably all wish we would have done that sooner with Shattenkirk. Similar situation here.

Yes Parayko is very good. I don’t think he’s “great”. It’s already a luxury having Pietrangelo.

William Nylander is a guy I have interest in and it’s something Toronto might/should do. I mentioned in another thread on the main boards where Minnesota fans are brainstorming scorers they can add via trade that William Nylander may be the best player “available”. He’s really good and would fill a need. A young RHS that can play center and create offense.

Is this a risk? Yes. We might have to sign a veteran defenseman, but that’s doable. I’m not pushing Parayko out the door but I’d love to see Armstrong be aggressive rather than be too passive.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Just to put things in perspective, Parayko is the highest scoring player drafted by the Blues since we took Vladdy and Schwartz in 2010. There are no acceptable internal replacements unless you expect Schmaltz to take a very big step forward next year. Parayko, even in this off year, was still comfortably in the top quarter of dmen in 5v5 scoring. Our depth on the right side of the defense is abysmal, getting rid of Parayko would be a very poor decision, imo.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I’m okay with trading Parayko for a top end young player...if we win the lottery and get Dahlin.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'd see where the young whipper snappers fall at before I consider moving Parayko. The days of the kids cant be ready at a young age are dying. Look around the league. The impact young players are having is insane. I mean wtf is a Yanni Gourde? Lol. I scoffed at the idea of targeting Point for Shattenkirk.......ya, that's why I dont work in the NHL. DA shouldn't look to move out a core player till midseason next year at the earliest

 

[Majorityof1]

Just to put things in perspective, Parayko is the highest scoring player drafted by the Blues since we took Vladdy and Schwartz in 2010. There are no acceptable internal replacements unless you expect Schmaltz to take a very big step forward next year. Parayko, even in this off year, was still comfortably in the top quarter of dmen in 5v5 scoring. Our depth on the right side of the defense is abysmal, getting rid of Parayko would be a very poor decision, imo.

The bolded puts absolutely nothing in perspective. What does the relative effectiveness of our draft picks have to do with the price of tea in China? Its not even a ranking of relative effectiveness because it is heavily skewed toward players drafted closer to 2011. Give Fabbri those extra two years, if he recovers, and he will probably have more than Parayko has now. If anything, that fact highlights that we need better young scoring forwards than it speaks to the importance of Parayko. I do agree with what you wrote after the bolded. We don't have any internal replacements currently or much depth on that side. We have not drafted RHD as that was our strength.

However, you have to consider trading Parayko if you can make a secondary move to fill that hole. So as examples, let's say we miss out on any good C in UFA, everybody wants too much in trade and are left with Plekanec as our best option. But also pretend we could potentially snag Green or Carlson and trade Parayko for Nylander. Then we don't need internal replacements, as we found external ones. Even if we don't line up someone like Green, Schmaltz has top 4 potential. Is running a defense of Pietro, J-Bo, Edmundson, Dunn, Bortuzzo and Schmaltz any thinner than running a Center group of Schenn, Thomas, Plekanec and Brodziak?

I'm not advocating trading Parayko, but I am advocating listening to offers and having discussions about potential replacements. We need to make some sort of move (I know you disagree), and if we can't find Top 6 forwards for an acceptable price, maybe we could find a lesser quality top 4 D, and use Parayko to get the Top 6 help we desperately need.

Also I find it funny that people are coming back around on trading Parayko. There was a poll as to whether we should trade Parayko for the #1 overall pick that turned into Matthews, and 90% of the board was violently adamant that it was a terrible idea. Now, a good portion of the board would consider trading him for a lesser player in Nylander/Marner if we could come up with at least a decent #4D.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Also I find it funny that people are coming back around on trading Parayko. There was a poll as to whether we should trade Parayko for the #1 overall pick that turned into Matthews, and 90% of the board was violently adamant that it was a terrible idea. Now, a good portion of the board would consider trading him for a lesser player in Nylander/Marner if we could come up with at least a decent #4D.

Oh if you thought Colt55 was annoying on the trade boards, there was another guy who was insufferable about Parayko back then.

He was on to say that Mathews was never going to come close to the heights Parayko would reach and the only thing stopping him from achieving success was Hitchcock being bad at developing players. Or at least, that's what I think he was saying. It was hard to read given that it seemed like he had an elementary school level grasp on the English language.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I agree that Army should be shopping Parayko, but should only pull the trigger on a trade if they can get a return like Hall.

Hooray people are coming around to what i've been preaching for sometime. Ideally i would love a young center in return. But the whole thought process is to atleast explore options of what he could return.

DA shouldn't look to move out a core player till midseason next year at the earliest

I adamantly disagree. All teams are looking to improve their respective teams in the offseason, via draft, trade, or FA signings. If we don't land Tavares but find a trade partner for Parayko, the offseason is the time to find a 2RD replacement, as all teams are shuffling players and making changes.

 

[Spektre]

I'd see where the young whipper snappers fall at before I consider moving Parayko. The days of the kids cant be ready at a young age are dying. Look around the league. The impact young players are having is insane. I mean wtf is a Yanni Gourde? Lol. I scoffed at the idea of targeting Point for Shattenkirk.......ya, that's why I dont work in the NHL. DA shouldn't look to move out a core player till midseason next year at the earliest

Are there any Blues fans that follow the team closely not expecting Army to be aggressive in addressing the team's needs this off-season? If Army is really going to be aggressive it only makes sense he would see what offers are out there for Parayko. We all know there isn't an internal replacement for Parayko. I have two words for that, Nate Schmidt & Deryk Engelland. If Vegas can be successful with those 2 in the top 4 surely the Blues can find someone that can eat 2nd pairing minutes on the right side. Pietrangelo eats more minutes than Schmidt. The responsibility of the Blues 2nd RHD would be even less that Engelland provides.

I'm not trying to shove Parayko out the door either but the option should be explored.

Take Tavares out of the equation for this train of thought. Army needs to move on from either Berglund or Sobotka. I think Sobotka is the one dealt. He has less term, no contract clauses to jump through, and he's more versatile which makes him more desirable. That leaves 5 forwards with contracts of any substance, (Tarasenko, Schenn, Schwartz, Steen, & Berglund). The problem is 2 of those players really shouldn't be in the top 6 - Steen & Berglund. I'm fine with them playing on the 3rd line. It's a lot of money there but Army isn't going to be able to move all those contracts even if he wanted to (most likely). If Steen and Berglund are 3rd line players, that leaves 3 positions to fill. I think it's silly to count on Fabbri filling a top 6 slot at this point. If that happens it's a bonus.

Army could package WPG's 1st + futures (not named Kyrou or Thomas) for a veteran top 6 (Hoffman type). Then trade Parayko for a cost controlled top 6 kid (Nylander type). Nylander is a possible candidate but he's due a big raise this off-season too. He's 21 with 2 seasons of 61 points. Schwartz's first 2 full seasons he scored 56 & 63. Schwartz signed a 2 year bridge deal for $2,350,000 after his 56 point year. Maybe that's possible with Nylander, or maybe you lock him up for 7 years @ 6 million. That's chasing a rabbit on details.

The end result would be adding two legit top 6 forwards to the core. That's what I would deem aggressive.

 

[Dbrownss]

Are there any Blues fans that follow the team closely not expecting Army to be aggressive in addressing the team's needs this off-season? If Army is really going to be aggressive it only makes sense he would see what offers are out there for Parayko. We all know there isn't an internal replacement for Parayko. I have two words for that, Nate Schmidt & Deryk Engelland. If Vegas can be successful with those 2 in the top 4 surely the Blues can find someone that can eat 2nd pairing minutes on the right side. Pietrangelo eats more minutes than Schmidt. The responsibility of the Blues 2nd RHD would be even less that Engelland provides.

I'm not trying to shove Parayko out the door either but the option should be explored.

Take Tavares out of the equation for this train of thought. Army needs to move on from either Berglund or Sobotka. I think Sobotka is the one dealt. He has less term, no contract clauses to jump through, and he's more versatile which makes him more desirable. That leaves 5 forwards with contracts of any substance, (Tarasenko, Schenn, Schwartz, Steen, & Berglund). The problem is 2 of those players really shouldn't be in the top 6 - Steen & Berglund. I'm fine with them playing on the 3rd line. It's a lot of money there but Army isn't going to be able to move all those contracts even if he wanted to (most likely). If Steen and Berglund are 3rd line players, that leaves 3 positions to fill. I think it's silly to count on Fabbri filling a top 6 slot at this point. If that happens it's a bonus.

Army could package WPG's 1st + futures (not named Kyrou or Thomas) for a veteran top 6 (Hoffman type). Then trade Parayko for a cost controlled top 6 kid (Nylander type). Nylander is a possible candidate but he's due a big raise this off-season too. He's 21 with 2 seasons of 61 points. Schwartz's first 2 full seasons he scored 56 & 63. Schwartz signed a 2 year bridge deal for $2,350,000 after his 56 point year. Maybe that's possible with Nylander, or maybe you lock him up for 7 years @ 6 million. That's chasing a rabbit on details.

The end result would be adding two legit top 6 forwards to the core. That's what I would deem aggressive.

I would not use a single thing Vegas has done as a measuring stick. Its unnatural what that team has done.

I stand by my train of thought. I wouldn't consider moving Parayko till next year.

 

[542365]

I don't want to trade Parayko as I think he's already a very good Dman and still has room to grow. However, everyone(outside of Petro and Vladdy) should be on the table for the right return. If you're getting a good young center in return then it might be worth looking at. I don't think we'll get an offer worth taking the risk though.

 

[BlueDream]

I would not use a single thing Vegas has done as a measuring stick. Its unnatural what that team has done.

I stand by my train of thought. I wouldn't consider moving Parayko till next year.

They're not the only team though.

Boston has Kevan Miller in their top 4 right now and are a popular pick to go to the cup.

Washington has Michal Kempny in their top 4 and a declining Brooks Orpik as their #5.

Heck, Pittsburgh's defense outside of Letang isn't anything special either.

I do think that a lot of Blues fans are overly conservative when it comes to the defense. If we could sign an adequate veteran for the 2nd or 3rd pairing, losing Parayko would be tolerable.

Edmundson-Pietrangelo
Dunn-Bouwmeester
Gunnarsson-Schmaltz

Isn't the worst thing I've ever seen if it means our offense isn't anemic.

I don't want to trade Parayko as I think he's already a very good Dman and still has room to grow. However, everyone(outside of Petro and Vladdy) should be on the table for the right return. If you're getting a good young center in return then it might be worth looking at. I don't think we'll get an offer worth taking the risk though.

I actually see it as the opposite, I think Parayko has basically stagnated as a player. I don't really see him growing much more at all.

 

[Stealth JD]

I actually see it as the opposite, I think Parayko has basically stagnated as a player. I don't really see him growing much more at all.

bold to say that a guy with less than 200 games of pro-experience has plateaued. I could rattle off a laundry list of very, very good defensemen who were greater at 34 than at 24. Heck, Petro is just NOW entering his prime in my opinion. Do you really think Colton has already hit his?

 

[BlueDream]

bold to say that a guy with less than 200 games of pro-experience has plateaued. I could rattle off a laundry list of very, very good defensemen who were greater at 34 than at 24. Heck, Petro is just NOW entering his prime in my opinion. Do you really think Colton has already hit his?

Parayko doesn't have less than 200 games, he has over 240. And counting playoffs is above 270.

Really? Pietrangelo is just now entering his prime? I strongly disagree with that. Pietrangelo had 51 points in 2012. He's been our #1 for a long time, and has been this dominant for a long time - certainly at least since he was 24 or so.

Parayko is now 25 in a couple weeks, and I'd love to hear where you guys think he's improved. He's been in the league for 3 years now and his goal scoring has actually gone down. He's still afraid to let his shot go, and his accuracy still sucks. He has not developed a mean streak (and probably never will). He's solid defensively and a 35-point guy. He's been this way all 3 years basically looking the exact same.

He's played more than enough to judge. He looks almost the exact same to me as he did 2 years ago. That's not a bad thing, he's a good player, but I just think that people that keep saying "he's only getting better" are just clinging on to hope rather than any actual evidence because his game isn't changing much.

Players like Duncan Keith who breakout in their later 20s are not the norm.

 

[Stealth JD]

Parayko doesn't have less than 200 games, he has over 240. And counting playoffs is above 270.

Really? Pietrangelo is just now entering his prime? I strongly disagree with that. Pietrangelo had 51 points in 2012. He's been our #1 for a long time, and has been this dominant for a long time - certainly at least since he was 24 or so.

Parayko is now 25 in a couple weeks, and I'd love to hear where you guys think he's improved. He's been in the league for 3 years now and his goal scoring has actually gone down. He's still afraid to let his shot go, and his accuracy still sucks. He has not developed a mean streak (and probably never will). He's solid defensively and a 35-point guy. He's been this way all 3 years basically looking the exact same.

He's played more than enough to judge. He looks almost the exact same to me as he did 2 years ago. That's not a bad thing, he's a good player, but I just think that people that keep saying "he's only getting better" are just clinging on to hope rather than any actual evidence because his game isn't changing much.

Players like Duncan Keith who breakout in their later 20s are not the norm.

Sorry - that should have said 300 games...but the point remains. It doesn't matter that Pietrangelo was good in 2012. He's better today. Just like Chara was better at 34 than he was at 24, Lidstrom, Robinson, etc. Defensemen age very well typically...and they become savvy and figure it out later than forwards do. We can agree to disagree, but saying Parayko has stagnated and plateaued is silly, considering his responsibilities have increased every year and his offensive production has remained virtually unaffected.

 

[Shwabeal]

Parayko doesn't have less than 200 games, he has over 240. And counting playoffs is above 270.

For comparison, Pietrangelo, at the end of the season in which he turned 25, had played 386 regular season games, 412 if you count playoffs. And that is with a lockout in there that cost him another 40+ games. Parayko, if he plays every game next year, would still need half a season to match that number of games at the same age. Pietrangelo had played 96 games in the NHL by the time he was the same age Parayko was when he made his debut. On top of that, Pietrangelo was a much more polished prospect when he was drafted. I think it's silly for anyone to expect Parayko to get much better than he currently is, but it's equally as silly to think he is what he is at this point.