Best player in the world: 2016

[norrisnick]

Well you are misguided as I never vote for the most popular player in these pills simply the guy that I think is the number 1 player in the world at the time.

Must be all the "no one thought xxx was best" comments. It's all appeals to public opinion.

 

[McFlash97]

Patrick Kane was the man. He was the best player on the planet in 15/16

 

[End of Line]

Pens fan voting Kane.

2017 will come down between Crosby and EK65

 

[DeletedUser539]

And he didnt win the Cup or Conn Smythe. This non sense about him not deserving the Smythe is so revisionist. Why would a player with 3 more points throughout the playoffs, who played against teams bottom feeders be a more valuable player that year. Crazy.

Ill take the guy who played the tough match ups vs the mickey mouse ones.

So Kane was the best player in 2013 when he won the cup and smythe?

 

[wetcoast]

Sure, but he plays on a team with the 6th most productive player. Kane doesn't have a linemate in the top 10 who's also over ppg. In fact his closest teammate is barely top 20

That metric for the 10s hardly matters in this poll though as Kane did place first in the Art Ross by quite a bit but where was he in our previous pills or heck even in all star voting the year before or the year before that.

Kane had the best season but no one going into the next season was saying can Crosby regain the title of #1 in the world and for good reason.

But then again I guess Jack Hughes might currently be the best player in the world for some contrarians in these threads too eh?

 

[norrisnick]

That metric for thew 10s hardly matters in this poll though as Kane did place first in the Art Ross by quite a bit but where was he in our previous pills or heck even in all star voting the year before or the year before that.

Kane had the best season but no one going into the next season was saying can Crosby regain the title of #1 in the world and for good reason.

But then again I guess Jack Hughes might currently be the best player in the world for some contraians in these threads too eh?

Yes. That's quite literally how this works. If you are the best player in any given year... you're the best player. You don't have to be the best player for 2-3 years leading up to finally getting the title because it takes that long for the guy that was the best 3+ years ago to relinquish it in the eyes of his superfans.

The season of this thread is the 2nd consecutive year that Benn outperformed Crosby. Yet Sid is still getting votes off of the basis of '14 and earlier.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yes. That's quite literally how this works. If you are the best player in any given year... you're the best player. You don't have to be the best player for 2-3 years leading up to finally getting the title because it takes that long for the guy that was the best 3+ years ago to relinquish it in the eyes of his superfans.

The season of this thread is the 2nd consecutive year that Benn outperformed Crosby. Yet Sid is still getting votes off of the basis of '14 and earlier.

Benn scored more points. He did not outperform Crosby. There are a lot of guys who would have put up big points in Dallas' system.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Benn scored more points. He did not outperform Crosby. There are a lot of guys who would have put up big points in Dallas' system.

How does one outperform someone without actually scoring more points. Please make sense of that.

 

[norrisnick]

How does one outperform someone without actually scoring more points. Please make sense of that.

Must be the defensive work. Sid's 0:30 of PK time per game over those two seasons compared to Benn's um.. 1:30... hm....

 

[GreatGonzo]

Must be the defensive work. Sid's 0:30 of PK time per game over those two seasons compared to Benn's um.. 1:30... hm....

It’s a wild concept isn’t it? To say someone who scored more points didn’t “out perform” them, and then double down by saying that the teams system was the reason he scored more points. Great stuff. Crosby fans continue to amaze me with the mental gymnastics they have resorted to.

Next thing they are going to say Is, “Kane didn’t out PERFORM Crosby, he simply scored 21 more points.”

 

[wetcoast]

Benn scored more points. He did not outperform Crosby. There are a lot of guys who would have put up big points in Dallas' system.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

 

[Nucks2001]

Kane. I get choosing Karlsson though. Once again Crosby will get his reputation votes but I exhaustively made my point about the semantics argument last poll so it’s whatever. I guess he does have the conn smythe this year but even that was a pretty weak conn smythe performance and arguably undeserved.

Reputation votes? A Stanley Cup, Con Smythe, 3rd in the scoring race, 2nd in Hart voting, Gold Medal at the World Cup and World Cup MVP. I get this was peak Kane’s best season so I’m not gonna say that it’s CLEARLY Crosby or anything.

Some points to consider:

-Crosby was the better defensive player. From just watching the two play that season, it felt that Crosby had more of an impact on his team winning hockey games.

-This was the most complete season that I’ve ever seen from him in terms of his overall game(reg season and playoffs).

-He had a better play-off run and more international success.

-I just remember thinking back to the moment of him hoisting his 2nd Stanley Cup and thinking there’s no one better than him right now.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You seem to have trouble with just about everything. Explains most of your posts.

Spoiler alert from a season that ended over 7 years ago. Kane scored 106 points compared to Crosby’s 85, a difference of 21 points. 21/85 = 24.7%.

Oops, you really thought this was the season Benn beat Crosby for the first time, didn’t you? No, this was the following season where Crosby was drowning deep at sea while Kane was on a yacht laughing.

I remembered incorrectly, thought he had 89 points but that was the following year. Apologies!

 

[Midnight Judges]

Some points to consider:

-Crosby was the better defensive player.

Crosby's defensive play is worth practically nothing. He contributes very little in his own end. His wingers have usually taken on the typical center defensive responsibilities.

-He had a better play-off run and more international success.

Crosby played at a paltry 65 point / 21 goal pace while not being good defensively in the playoffs. That run does not move the needle in Crosby's favor. If anything, it proves he was no longer 'best player' caliber.

The Pens had great depth scoring in the 2016 playoffs. It had very little to do with Crosby.

 

[blundluntman]

Reputation votes? A Stanley Cup, Con Smythe, 3rd in the scoring race, 2nd in Hart voting, Gold Medal at the World Cup and World Cup MVP. I get this was peak Kane’s best season so I’m not gonna say that it’s CLEARLY Crosby or anything.

Some points to consider:

-Crosby was the better defensive player. From just watching the two play that season, it felt that Crosby had more of an impact on his team winning hockey games.

-This was the most complete season that I’ve ever seen from him in terms of his overall game(reg season and playoffs).

-He had a better play-off run and more international success.

-I just remember thinking back to the moment of him hoisting his 2nd Stanley Cup and thinking there’s no one better than him right now.

- Crosby was better defensively but by no means a selke level player. The gap between him and Kane defensively is smaller than the gap between him and Kane offensively.

- Just because it was his most complete season personally doesn't mean it made him the best player.

- Yes Crosby had a better international run that season. I don't think success matters because Canada was a far better team but yes he individually performed better. I'll give you that.

- Playoffs wise, I don't see an edge here. That year Pittsburgh was loaded with depth and had great goaltending. They went further in the playoffs but Crosby wasn't all that great. It's one of the weakest Conn Smythes in a very long time.

- You're free to think nobody was better than him but it doesn't make it true.

Perhaps he has more of a case than I gave him credit for but Kane's level of play that year was much higher than Crosby's imo. As always his defensive play is far too overstated, he was competent but not stellar. I don't use team success as a metric for individual play. The only thing Crosby has over Kane for this poll is his international play. His Conn Smythe was weak and his regular season was good but not great. I'm not saying Crosby wasn't an elite player and top 3 that season, but Kane's level of play that year is significant enough for it to be an easy pick imo. Karlsson was better than Crosby in the playoffs and had just as good of a regular season if not better. Crosby would be my 2nd or 3rd pick for best player this season personally.

Edit: My Kopitar argument was wrong, I was looking at his 2018 season

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby's defensive play is worth practically nothing. He contributes very little in his own end. His wingers have usually taken on the typical center defensive responsibilities.



Crosby played at a paltry 65 point / 21 goal pace while not being good defensively in the playoffs. That run does not move the needle in Crosby's favor. If anything, it proves he was no longer 'best player' caliber.

The Pens had great depth scoring in the 2016 playoffs. It had very little to do with Crosby.

Just what we needed a fresh totally objective narrative on Crosby and his 2 way play.....We have seen this movie before and it doesn't end well.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Sidney Crosby had an absolutely abysmal start to the season. People were questioning if he was "done". That lasted about 5 weeks - or 18 games.

In those 18 games - he had points in only 5 games. On November 17th, he was 179th in league scoring, and -8. Just a horrendous start.

So no - Sidney Crosby didn't have the best overall season. That would be Kane. But this is about best player, not best season.

He flipped a switch around mid November. From November 18th till end of season:

Crosby 76 points in 62 games, 34 goals + 27 (101 point pace)
Kane 78 points in 64 games, 33 goals, +3 (100 point pace)

Sidney Crosby then won the Conn Smythe. Yes - it's not the greatest statistical conn smythe run ever, but he was absolutely instrumental in getting his team to turn their season around/make playoffs/win cup.

Sid played like ass to get MJ fired. Generational IQ like that has to be taken into consideration.

I mean, I'm half-joking about that second comment, but also, he absolutely did play to get MJ fired. His play post-MJ speaks for itself.

 

[Toby91ca]

Must be the defensive work. Sid's 0:30 of PK time per game over those two seasons compared to Benn's um.. 1:30... hm....

You know better than that though.....Datsyuk was winning 3 Selkes in a row while being choice number 7 or 8 amongst forwards on his team to play PK.

Not that I'm arguing for Crosby here because of defensive play over player whatever.

That said, as noted several times before, these polls are strange, if it's strictly best season, isn't it just re-picking the awards that have already done each year? In my votes, I've certainly leaned very heavy on who had the best season....actually pretty much entirely.....but if I were to say who I truly thought was the best player in the world at a point in time....my answers would likely differ.

Using the Benn vs. Crosby example in 2015 or 2016. I honestly don't think anyone in the hockey world would have ranked Benn as a better player at those points in time.....but for the poll....hard to say Crosby is better when the other has better stats.

 

[norrisnick]

You know better than that though.....Datsyuk was winning 3 Selkes in a row while being choice number 7 or 8 amongst forwards on his team to play PK.

Not that I'm arguing for Crosby here because of defensive play over player whatever.

That said, as noted several times before, these polls are strange, if it's strictly best season, isn't it just re-picking the awards that have already done each year? In my votes, I've certainly leaned very heavy on who had the best season....actually pretty much entirely.....but if I were to say who I truly thought was the best player in the world at a point in time....my answers would likely differ.

Using the Benn vs. Crosby example in 2015 or 2016. I honestly don't think anyone in the hockey world would have ranked Benn as a better player at those points in time.....but for the poll....hard to say Crosby is better when the other has better stats.

He won #2 and #3 on the basis of #1 which he shouldn't have won.

Nothing is quite as silly as disregarding performance when ranking players.

Ya, you outplayed this guy 2 years running but the other guy is better anyway. Because he was better in the past and more people think he should be better and therefore still is even though he's not playing like it.

 

[Nucks2001]

- Crosby was better defensively but by no means a selke level player. The gap between him and Kane defensively is smaller than the gap between him and Kane offensively.

- Just because it was his most complete season personally doesn't mean it made him the best player. In all honesty, Koptiar was better than Crosby this season. He finished with more points and won the Selke. If Kopitar isn't better than Kane this year, I'm sorry but neither is Crosby. He has a better argument.

- Yes Crosby had a better international run that season. I don't think success matters because Canada was a far better team but yes he individually performed better. I'll give you that.

- Playoffs wise, I don't see an edge here. That year Pittsburgh was loaded with depth and had great goaltending. They went further in the playoffs but Crosby wasn't all that great. It's one of the weakest Conn Smythes in a very long time.

- You're free to think nobody was better than him but it doesn't make it true.

Perhaps he has more of a case than I gave him credit for but Kane's level of play that year was much higher than Crosby's imo. As always his defensive play is far too overstated, he was competent but not stellar. I don't use team success as a metric for individual play. The only thing Crosby has over Kane for this poll is his international play. His Conn Smythe was weak and his regular season was good but not great. Like I said earlier, if you wanna go with the "complete player" argument, Kopitar has more of an argument than Crosby. I'm not saying Crosby wasn't an elite player and top 5, if not top 3 that season, but Kane's level of play that year is significant enough for it to be an easy pick imo. Karlsson was better than Crosby in the playoffs and had just as good of a regular season if not better. Crosby would be my 3rd or 4th pick for best player this season personally.

-Actually, I didn’t even know this but he was a Selke-level player. I just checked Hockey Reference and he finished 7th in Selke voting that season. The gap between him and Kane is pretty wide in that regard.

-Not sure where you got that Kopitar scored more points. Crosby finished with 11 more. Only trailing Kane and Benn. Kopitar didn’t win the Stanley Cup that year or Con Smythe so it’s not really the same.

-Crosby was better on the international stage. Glad we can agree on that.

-Did you actually watch the 2016 run? Yes, Pittsburgh had great scoring depth, but it was Crosby and his line that won them the cup. They matched up against the other team’s top lines and Crosby played SELKE-level defence that entire run. His play that run is why I say this was his best overall season. He was the ENGINE for that team. HBK line, Malking, and Letang provided the scoring depth that was needed for them to get over the hump. He forced the other team’s top d-pairings to defend his line and was a black hole on the ice. All matter collided towards him and he controlled play on both ends of the ice when his line was on the ice. In that regard, it’s not the WEAKEST Con Smythe rather the most UNIQUE in that the player that scored the most points (Kessel) was not automatically given it. The player with the biggest impact (Crosby) deservingly won it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

-Actually, I didn’t even know this but he was a Selke-level player. I just checked Hockey Reference and he finished 7th in Selke voting that season. The gap between him and Kane is pretty wide in that regard.

-Not sure where you got that Kopitar scored more points. Crosby finished with 11 more. Only trailing Kane and Benn. Kopitar didn’t win the Stanley Cup that year or Con Smythe so it’s not really the same.

-Crosby was better on the international stage. Glad we can agree on that.

-Did you actually watch the 2016 run? Yes, Pittsburgh had great scoring depth, but it was Crosby and his line that won them the cup. They matched up against the other team’s top lines and Crosby played SELKE-level defence that entire run. His play that run is why I say this was his best overall season. He was the ENGINE for that team. HBK line, Malking, and Letang provided the scoring depth that was needed for them to get over the hump. He forced the other team’s top d-pairings to defend his line and was a black hole on the ice. All matter collided towards him and he controlled play on both ends of the ice when his line was on the ice. In that regard, it’s not the WEAKEST Con Smythe rather the most UNIQUE in that the player that scored the most points (Kessel) was not automatically given it. The player with the biggest impact (Crosby) deservingly won it.

I don’t see how a player who was a -2 in the playoffs had “selke level defense.” That’s a new one for me. Kessels line was far more dominant and did more damage while Crosby struggled on both ends of the ice. This revision of history that Crosby was some defensive stud needs to stop. Crosby was terrible in the second round and subpar in the finals and conference finals. He won his smythe based on being the face and center of the team. I’ve pointed this out before..

Kessel: 18-9-9-18 +4
Crosby: 18-6-9-15 -2
Malkin: 17-4-11-15 +6
Bonino: 18-3-12-15 +7
Hagelin: 18-5-7-12 +6

These were the numbers going into the finals. Crosbys line may have gotten the tougher match ups but he did little with it while Kessels line picked up the slack offensively. Murray and Letang were also stellar. There’s a reason why the smythe voting was so close, but Crosby was far from their best player. He simply had the reputation already.

 

[blundluntman]

-Actually, I didn’t even know this but he was a Selke-level player. I just checked Hockey Reference and he finished 7th in Selke voting that season. The gap between him and Kane is pretty wide in that regard.

-Not sure where you got that Kopitar scored more points. Crosby finished with 11 more. Only trailing Kane and Benn. Kopitar didn’t win the Stanley Cup that year or Con Smythe so it’s not really the same.

-Crosby was better on the international stage. Glad we can agree on that.

-Did you actually watch the 2016 run? Yes, Pittsburgh had great scoring depth, but it was Crosby and his line that won them the cup. They matched up against the other team’s top lines and Crosby played SELKE-level defence that entire run. His play that run is why I say this was his best overall season. He was the ENGINE for that team. HBK line, Malking, and Letang provided the scoring depth that was needed for them to get over the hump. He forced the other team’s top d-pairings to defend his line and was a black hole on the ice. All matter collided towards him and he controlled play on both ends of the ice when his line was on the ice. In that regard, it’s not the WEAKEST Con Smythe rather the most UNIQUE in that the player that scored the most points (Kessel) was not automatically given it. The player with the biggest impact (Crosby) deservingly won it.

Oh wait you're right, I was looking at Kopitar in 2018. My mistake on that. Rule that out.

I watched some of those games and while he was competent and kept them in a position to win, he wasn't selke level imo. He also wasn't very good offensively during the finals as he didn't score a goal.

Its interesting that he finished that high in selke votes, I didn't know that. I suppose that does add to his case. Imo though, the smythe was weak and while he was good in the playoffs, I don't think he was so great that it makes up for the impact Kane had that year. I suppose he's closer than I previously stated but I still take Kane decisively

 

[wetcoast]

Sid played like ass to get MJ fired. Generational IQ like that has to be taken into consideration.

I mean, I'm half-joking about that second comment, but also, he absolutely did play to get MJ fired. His play post-MJ speaks for itself.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or what?

MJ insisted that the Dmen always pass to each other and thus avoided fast breaking plays.


MJ got fired because he wasn't a very good coach that year.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby's defensive play is worth practically nothing. He contributes very little in his own end. His wingers have usually taken on the typical center defensive responsibilities.



Crosby played at a paltry 65 point / 21 goal pace while not being good defensively in the playoffs. That run does not move the needle in Crosby's favor. If anything, it proves he was no longer 'best player' caliber.

The Pens had great depth scoring in the 2016 playoffs. It had very little to do with Crosby.

He had Sheary and Hornqvist as wingers. Which of those exactly were going to cover for him on defense?

- Crosby was better defensively but by no means a selke level player. The gap between him and Kane defensively is smaller than the gap between him and Kane offensively.

- Just because it was his most complete season personally doesn't mean it made him the best player.

- Yes Crosby had a better international run that season. I don't think success matters because Canada was a far better team but yes he individually performed better. I'll give you that.

- Playoffs wise, I don't see an edge here. That year Pittsburgh was loaded with depth and had great goaltending. They went further in the playoffs but Crosby wasn't all that great. It's one of the weakest Conn Smythes in a very long time.

- You're free to think nobody was better than him but it doesn't make it true.

Perhaps he has more of a case than I gave him credit for but Kane's level of play that year was much higher than Crosby's imo. As always his defensive play is far too overstated, he was competent but not stellar. I don't use team success as a metric for individual play. The only thing Crosby has over Kane for this poll is his international play. His Conn Smythe was weak and his regular season was good but not great. I'm not saying Crosby wasn't an elite player and top 3 that season, but Kane's level of play that year is significant enough for it to be an easy pick imo. Karlsson was better than Crosby in the playoffs and had just as good of a regular season if not better. Crosby would be my 2nd or 3rd pick for best player this season personally.

Edit: My Kopitar argument was wrong, I was looking at his 2018 season

What a joke. Kane is one of the worst defensive players in modern NHL history

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Oh wait you're right, I was looking at Kopitar in 2018. My mistake on that. Rule that out.

I watched some of those games and while he was competent and kept them in a position to win, he wasn't selke level imo. He also wasn't very good offensively during the finals as he didn't score a goal.

Its interesting that he finished that high in selke votes, I didn't know that. I suppose that does add to his case. Imo though, the smythe was weak and while he was good in the playoffs, I don't think he was so great that it makes up for the impact Kane had that year. I suppose he's closer than I previously stated but I still take Kane decisively

He was completely dominant in the Finals. The games from 2016 are on Youtube, you have the ability to watch him. Don't drop the level of discourse down to his point totals with shitty playoff wingers over 6 games.