Best player in the world: 2016

[bambamcam4ever]

Sid played like ass to get MJ fired. Generational IQ like that has to be taken into consideration.

I mean, I'm half-joking about that second comment, but also, he absolutely did play to get MJ fired. His play post-MJ speaks for itself.

Exactly. He scored 19 points in 28 games under Johnston, then after Sullivan took over scored at a 104 point pace. And he wasn't spending every minute with a guy like Panarin either. Crosby was very clearly the best player this season.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Exactly. He scored 19 points in 28 games under Johnston, then after Sullivan took over scored at a 104 point pace. And he wasn't spending every minute with a guy like Panarin either. Crosby was very clearly the best player this season.

How can one be clearly the best yet get out scored by 21 points. And let’s leave Panarin out of this, it’s nonsense. Kane scored 110 points without Panarin in 2019.

 

[Voight]

He was completely dominant in the Finals. The games from 2016 are on Youtube, you have the ability to watch him. Don't drop the level of discourse down to his point totals with shitty playoff wingers over 6 games.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The Penguins didn't score a ton of goals in the Finals, but the level of dominance over SJ was the greatest in the SCF in the last 25 years. Crosby was their best player in the Finals.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The Penguins didn't score a ton of goals in the Finals, but the level of dominance over SJ was the greatest in the SCF in the last 25 years. Crosby was their best player in the Finals.

What are you smoking you are seriously trying way to hard.

Only Crosby can have 4 assists, zero goals, in 6 games while going scoreless for 3 of them, and still be considered “dominant.”

 

[Video Nasty]

What are you smoking you are seriously trying way to hard.

Only Crosby can have 4 assists, zero goals, in 6 games while going scoreless for 3 of them, and still be considered “dominant.”

On a related side note, is there any other all-time great who has such underwhelming stats in the Finals?

In the 3 SCF the Penguins won, he scored just 2 goals in 19 games (a whopping 4 in 25 games), at one point going 12 consecutive games across all 3, without one.

Speaks to the overall competence and depth of those teams, if they sustain one of the best players ever chipping in so few goals.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

On a related side note, is there any other all-time great who has such underwhelming stats in the Finals?

In the 3 SCF the Penguins won, he scored just 2 goals in 19 games (a whopping 4 in 25 games), at one point going 12 consecutive games across all 3, without one.

Speaks to the overall competence and depth of those teams, if they sustain one of the best players ever chipping in so few goals.

Gordie Howe. 8 points in 19 games in his first 4 finals appearances

 

[Voight]

On a related side note, is there any other all-time great who has such underwhelming stats in the Finals?

In the 3 SCF the Penguins won, he scored just 2 goals in 19 games (a whopping 4 in 25 games), at one point going 12 consecutive games across all 3, without one.

Speaks to the overall competence and depth of those teams, if they sustain one of the best players ever chipping in so few goals.

He was tied in points by Tyler Kennedy in 2009 for Christs sake.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

On a related side note, is there any other all-time great who has such underwhelming stats in the Finals?

Jagr has to be up there. He scored just 0.63 PPG in the Stanley Cup finals (10 points in 16 games). That stat is literally true, but it's also completely misleading since all of Jagr's SCF games were before or after his peak (6 games in 1991, 4 games in 1992, 6 games in 2013).

Malkin's SC finals stats are even worse than Crosby's (0.72 PPG - 18 points in 25 games) but (not directed at you) he rarely seems to get criticized for it.

One player I'll criticize - Joe Nieuwendyk. So much of his Hall of Fame case was a result of his Conn Smythe and him winning three Stanley Cups (on three different teams). But he scored just 0.33 PPG in the Stanley Cup finals (6 points in 18 games). He had 2 points in 6 games in 1989 (after scoring 82 points in the regular season). Even in 1999 when he won the Conn Smythe, he only had 3 points in 6 games. Then in 2000, he had just 1 point in 6 games against New Jersey. Horrendous numbers for someone who only got a spot in the Hall due to his (overrated) playoff resume.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

20 points in 25 final games is hardly bad especially when he was 20 and 21 in 2 of them against the powerhouse defensive wings. He has 2 good finals 6 points in 6 games, 7 points in 6 games which led the finals. One ok one 4 points in 6 and one poor 3 in 7. And this is only from an offensive standpoint

 

[Video Nasty]

Gordie Howe. 8 points in 19 games in his first 4 finals appearances

I’m not sure I’m following the relevance of comparing Howe’s earliest performances with the totality of Crosby’s.

There’s a lot to unpack here and I’m not sure I’m up to the task or even care to be, because I sometimes think Howe gets an exaggerated amount of credit; like how he’s always touted as being a 4-time champion, despite not even playing a full game during the first of those runs.

On the flip side, Howe was in his age 19 season, just his second year, for his first Finals appearance. During the 3 other Cup winning runs, they were some of the lowest scoring years in league history. This is a line of defense frequently used for Crosby, when comparing him to better players before and after his time.

Edit: A key difference is; Howe has the signature performance. 5 goals and 12 points in 7 games in 1955.

Crosby doesn’t have that masterpiece Finals work of art that every other all-timer tends to have. That a fact, no matter how much emphasis is tried to be placed on his edge-work and supposed elite defensive play. 4 total goals in 4 appearances and sub-PPG is ultimately very disappointing for someone of his caliber.

He’s the only one where excuses are made like how he draws the tougher matchups, which thus affects his scoring contributions. Everyone else did this and also lit it up.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I’m not sure I’m following the relevance of comparing Howe’s earliest performances with the totality of Crosby’s.

There’s a lot to unpack here and I’m not sure I’m up to the task or even care to be, because I sometimes think Howe gets an exaggerated amount of credit; like how he’s always touted as being a 4-time champion, despite not even playing a full game during the first of those runs.

On the flip side, Howe was in his age 19 season, just his second year, for his first Finals appearance. During the 3 other Cup winning runs, they were some of the lowest scoring years in league history. This is a line of defense frequently used for Crosby, when comparing him to better players before and after his time.

A key difference is; Howe has those signature performances. 4 goals and 8 points in a 4 game sweep in 1954. 5 goals and 12 points in 7 games in 1955. If we follow the argument seemingly reserved for Crosby (and Ovechkin), isn’t this about 14 goals and 30 points in 11 games?

Crosby doesn’t have that masterpiece Finals work of art that every other all-timer tends to have. That a fact, no matter how much emphasis is tried to be placed on his edge-work and supposed elite defensive play. 4 total goals in 4 appearances and sub-PPG is ultimately very disappointing for someone of his caliber.

He’s the only one where excuses are made like how he draws the tougher matchups, which thus affects his scoring contributions. Everyone else did this and also lit it up.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in 1954? It was a 7 game series where Howe scored 3 points

 

[Video Nasty]

I'm not sure what you're referring to in 1954? It was a 7 game series where Howe scored 3 points

Good catch. The years blurred when I was going through the game logs. I’ll edit my mistake correctly. Case stands for signature performance in 1955. As I said initially, I don’t think I’m the right person to construct the full case, and there’s a reason why.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or what?

MJ insisted that the Dmen always pass to each other and thus avoided fast breaking plays.


MJ got fired because he wasn't a very good coach that year.

It's the ol' "The players quit on the coach." You see it all the time. Crosby and the other stars knew they were going nowhere under MJ so they didn't give 100%. He got fired, and the rest is history.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Jagr has to be up there. He scored just 0.63 PPG in the Stanley Cup finals (10 points in 16 games). That stat is literally true, but it's also completely misleading since all of Jagr's SCF games were before or after his peak (6 games in 1991, 4 games in 1992, 6 games in 2013).

Malkin's SC finals stats are even worse than Crosby's (0.72 PPG - 18 points in 25 games) but (not directed at you) he rarely seems to get criticized for it.

One player I'll criticize - Joe Nieuwendyk. So much of his Hall of Fame case was a result of his Conn Smythe and him winning three Stanley Cups (on three different teams). But he scored just 0.33 PPG in the Stanley Cup finals (6 points in 18 games). He had 2 points in 6 games in 1989 (after scoring 82 points in the regular season). Even in 1999 when he won the Conn Smythe, he only had 3 points in 6 games. Then in 2000, he had just 1 point in 6 games against New Jersey. Horrendous numbers for someone who only got a spot in the Hall due to his (overrated) playoff resume.

On Malkin dodging criticism, it's because no one is pumping his tires as one of the best playoff performers ever/some great playoff warrior

 

[Amen evil king]

On Malkin dodging criticism, it's because no one is pumping his tires as one of the best playoff performers ever/some great playoff warrior

Well, it's also that 18 points in 25 SC finals games is pretty good. From memory it's comparable to the most-renowned and successful playoff heroes of this era -- Crosby, Kucherov, and Kane.

 

[daver]

The Penguins didn't score a ton of goals in the Finals, but the level of dominance over SJ was the greatest in the SCF in the last 25 years. Crosby was their best player in the Finals.

The Red Wings in 2008 immediately come to mind as more dominant. So do the 2021 TBL.

No issue with promoting the 2016 Pens as a #2 candidate for Best SC winner since 2005 and it was clear that Crosby was the centrepiece whose contribution on defense was as important as his contribution on offense in those playoffs.

It can not be stated enough that the Pens' ability to roll 3 scoring lines was key to their run and that happened because Crosby could carry a line of a career 3rd liner and a AHL callup who was terrible defensively. Crosby stepped up offensively in key times in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

This season a case can be made that the gap in defensive contribution makes up for offensive superiority. To be fair, the poll winners have been based primarily on offense only so Kane winning this one is not a surprise.

 

[daver]

On Malkin dodging criticism, it's because no one is pumping his tires as one of the best playoff performers ever/some great playoff warrior

"The Best playoff performer of his era" makes a good case for being a playoff warrior. What more do you want from the "Best player of his era/Top 10 all-time?"

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I’m not sure I’m following the relevance of comparing Howe’s earliest performances with the totality of Crosby’s.

There’s a lot to unpack here and I’m not sure I’m up to the task or even care to be, because I sometimes think Howe gets an exaggerated amount of credit; like how he’s always touted as being a 4-time champion, despite not even playing a full game during the first of those runs.

On the flip side, Howe was in his age 19 season, just his second year, for his first Finals appearance. During the 3 other Cup winning runs, they were some of the lowest scoring years in league history. This is a line of defense frequently used for Crosby, when comparing him to better players before and after his time.

Edit: A key difference is; Howe has the signature performance. 5 goals and 12 points in 7 games in 1955.

Crosby doesn’t have that masterpiece Finals work of art that every other all-timer tends to have. That a fact, no matter how much emphasis is tried to be placed on his edge-work and supposed elite defensive play. 4 total goals in 4 appearances and sub-PPG is ultimately very disappointing for someone of his caliber.

He’s the only one where excuses are made like how he draws the tougher matchups, which thus affects his scoring contributions. Everyone else did this and also lit it up.

Crosby led the 2017 finals in scoring so......

 

[GreatGonzo]

The Red Wings in 2008 immediately come to mind as more dominant. So do the 2021 TBL.

No issue with promoting the 2016 Pens as a #2 candidate for Best SC winner since 2005 and it was clear that Crosby was the centrepiece whose contribution on defense was as important as his contribution on offense in those playoffs.

It can not be stated enough that the Pens' ability to roll 3 scoring lines was key to their run and that happened because Crosby could carry a line of a career 3rd liner and a AHL callup who was terrible defensively. Crosby stepped up offensively in key times in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

This season a case can be made that the gap in defensive contribution makes up for offensive superiority. To be fair, the poll winners have been based primarily on offense only so Kane winning this one is not a surprise.

Here we go….

Crosby was nothing special defensively in the 2016 playoffs. Stop trying to make up for his lack of offense, because that’s all it is at this point, an excuse. Dude was a -2 in post season and scored a majority of his points in the first round. He was terrible in the second round and subpar at best in the third and fourth.

The Pens beat teams by committee. They had one of the most well balanced offenses with Murray and Letang playing mvp caliber hockey. Crosbys “defense” wasn’t a difference maker. Hate to break it to you.

 

[klefbombs shoulder]

Not that I think McDavid was the best player in the world as a rookie, but he should be listed as an option over several of these players. Many other years players have been listed despite missing significant time.

 

[Section88]

Some incredible levels of goal post shifting and hoop jumping from Crosby fans to convince themselves that Sid was the best player in a year where he was outscored by almost 20 points and got carried through the playoffs by the HBK line and was gifted a Conn Smythe

 

[daver]

Some incredible levels of goal post shifting and hoop jumping from Crosby fans to convince themselves that Sid was the best player in a year where he was outscored by almost 20 points and got carried through the playoffs by the HBK line and was gifted a Conn Smythe

Yeah, the HBK line should have won the Smythe that year. Each player would have it for 3 months with the last three months to clean the mustard out.

 

[wetcoast]

Here we go….

Crosby was nothing special defensively in the 2016 playoffs. Stop trying to make up for his lack of offense, because that’s all it is at this point, an excuse. Dude was a -2 in post season and scored a majority of his points in the first round. He was terrible in the second round and subpar at best in the third and fourth.

The bar here isn't Bergeron it's freaking Patrick "who is my goalie again" Kane who might have had one of the most sheltered post seasons in history that year but you keep doing you.

The Pens beat teams by committee. They had one of the most well balanced offenses with Murray and Letang playing mvp caliber hockey. Crosbys “defense” wasn’t a difference maker. Hate to break it to you.

Sure that's how most teams win the SC, if anything the Black Hawks had deeper teams than the Pens SC teams right?

 

[GreatGonzo]

The bar here isn't Bergeron it's freaking Patrick "who is my goalie again" Kane who might have had one of the most sheltered post seasons in history that year but you keep doing you.



Sure that's how most teams win the SC, if anything the Black Hawks had deeper teams than the Pens SC teams right?

I love how you continue to bring up Kane in order to prove Crosbys defensive play. Very weak argument if I do say so. Keep it up.

Sure, doesn’t mean Crosby was anything special defensively. He wasn’t that great for his standards and many like to use defense as a counter to his lack of production. Guy had 8 points in 5 games in the opening round, then 11 points in his next 19 the rest of the playoffs and was a -4.