Best player in the world: 2016

[wetcoast]

I love how you continue to bring up Kane in order to prove Crosbys defensive play. Very weak argument if I do say so. Keep it up.

Well Kane is the comaptiton for #1 player in the world here , why wouldn't one bring him up?

Sure, doesn’t mean Crosby was anything special defensively. He wasn’t that great for his standards and many like to use defense as a counter to his lack of production. Guy had 8 points in 5 games in the opening round, then 11 points in his next 19 the rest of the playoffs and was a -4.

It's not a bold statement to say that the Conn Smythe winner had a better playoffs than Kane in 2016 is it?

What's this lack of production BS anyways he was second in scoring for the Pens in the playoffs?

Like stated previously some people are voting and arguing for best season not best player in the world.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Well Kane is the comaptiton for #1 player in the world here , why wouldn't one bring him up?


It's not a bold statement to say that the Conn Smythe winner had a better playoffs than Kane in 2016 is it?

What's this lack of production BS anyways he was second in scoring for the Pens in the playoffs?

Like stated previously some people are voting and arguing for best season not best player in the world.

Here’s a question, does crosbys “defense” make up for the 21 point difference of offense Kane had? I doubt it, but knowing you..you might say yes.

Crosby did have a better playoffs than Kane, doesn’t mean it was an overall strong one.
He had 19 points. That’s weak for a guy of his caliber, especially in the playoffs. He was also tied in points with two other players after the conference finals, when they vote for the MVP.

I’ve said this before, this was Kanes break out year and he followed it up with more elite seasons. This is a season where playoffs have become a huge decider for Crosby. Without his precious smythe, he most likely doesn’t get any votes. My point is it’s among the weakest smythes in recent history given crosbys status as THE best player in the world and arguably top 5 of all time.

 

[wetcoast]

Here’s a question, does crosbys “defense” make up for the 21 point difference of offense Kane had? I doubt it, but knowing you..you might say yes.

Crosby did have a better playoffs than Kane, doesn’t mean it was an overall strong one.
He had 19 points. That’s weak for a guy of his caliber, especially in the playoffs. He was also tied in points with two other players after the conference finals, when they vote for the MVP.

I’ve said this before, this was Kanes break out year and he followed it up with more elite seasons. This is a season where playoffs have become a huge decider for Crosby. Without his precious smythe, he most likely doesn’t get any votes. My point is it’s among the weakest smythes in recent history given crosbys status as THE best player in the world and arguably top 5 of all time.

Kane gives you offense and is worse than average across the board with everything else.

Crosby after his rough start due in part to coaching techniques was basically his equal offensively for the rest of the season and has the track record coming into the season as well.

But just look at counting stats and forget about context like ussual.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Kane gives you offense and is worse than average across the board with everything else.

Crosby after his rough start due in part to coaching techniques was basically his equal offensively for the rest of the season and has the track record coming into the season as well.

But just look at counting stats and forget about context like ussual.

And like I’ve stated before. Kanes offense contributed to 3 cups, a smythe, and two other smythe worthy performances. Keep singling him out like he’s a one trick pony that hasn’t accomplished anything though. That’s how you sound.

Does that really matter? Kane still put scored the “best player” by 21 points. You have to create “context” in order to have an argument.

 

[wetcoast]

And like I’ve stated before. Kanes offense contributed to 3 cups, a smythe, and two other smythe worthy performances. Keep singling him out like he’s a one trick pony that hasn’t accomplished anything though. That’s how you sound.

Kane is a one trick pony, offense only especially in the given time period here.

Does that really matter? Kane still put scored the “best player” by 21 points. You have to create “context” in order to have an argument.

I did create context on 4 points.

1) Crosby had a better playoffs that year than Kane.

2) their offense that year after the Penguins switched coaches was pretty much the same.

From Dec1st to the end of the season

Crosby 57-31-39-70 (+29)
Kane 58-32-37-69 (+5)

Also before you get all excited about the Pens being the better team, yes they were but Crosby led the team back into the playoff race and Kane while positive was also well behind his team mates and played much more sheltered offensive MPG.

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3) Crosby has the better track record the year before and the year before in the question, who is the best player in the world

4) Crosby is by far bringing more to the table than just offense which is what literally all Kane brought.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Kane is a one trick pony, offense only especially in the given time period here.


I did create context on 4 points.

1) Crosby had a better playoffs that year than Kane.

2) their offense that year after the Penguins switched coaches was pretty much the same.

From Dec1st to the end of the season

Crosby 57-31-39-70 (+29)
Kane 58-32-37-69 (+5)

Also before you get all excited about the Pens being the better team, yes they were but Crosby led the team back into the playoff race and Kane while positive was also well behind his team mates and played much more sheltered offensive MPG.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

3) Crosby has the better track record the year before and the year before in the question, who is the best player in the world

4) Crosby is by far bringing more to the table than just offense which is what literally all Kane brought.

A one trick pony with the same amount of cups and one less smythe. He also sat 3rd in playoffs points, tied 1st in goals, and 5th in assists from 2007-2016. Pretty good for such an “inferior” player.

Again, you have to break the seasons down that way to make it appear closer than it was. 21 points is 21 points, sorry to break it to you.

Crosby had the better track record, doesn’t mean he qualifies as the best every year like you love to do.

That’s fine. He still lost the scoring race to a one trick pony. I’m sure that’s a sore fact for you, but it is what it is. Kane tied him in point the following year, and then out scored Crosby from 2019-2022. Like I said, Kane peaked while Crosby declined.

 

[Section88]

Yeah, the HBK line should have won the Smythe that year. Each player would have it for 3 months with the last three months to clean the mustard out.

More goalpost shifting and putting words in my mouth that I didnt say. It shouldve gone to Kessel.

 

[wetcoast]

A one trick pony with the same amount of cups and one less smythe. He also sat 3rd in playoffs points, tied 1st in goals, and 5th in assists from 2007-2016. Pretty good for such an “inferior” player.

Again, you have to break the seasons down that way to make it appear closer than it was. 21 points is 21 points, sorry to break it to you.

Crosby had the better track record, doesn’t mean he qualifies as the best every year like you love to do.

That’s fine. He still lost the scoring race to a one trick pony. I’m sure that’s a sore fact for you, but it is what it is. Kane tied him in point the following year, and then out scored Crosby from 2019-2022. Like I said, Kane peaked while Crosby declined.

Okay you seem to like points a lot, myself I like the actual better player.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Okay you seem to like points a lot, myself I like the actual better player.

You seem to like grace periods.

Again, Crosby is an offensive first player. That’s what has made him so great. Not his defense.

 

[wetcoast]

You seem to like grace periods.

some people like talking about grace which means a substantial drop off, something that never really occurred as Crosby transformed his game and has a pretty regular career arc into his late 20s

Again, Crosby is an offensive first player. That’s what has made him so great. Not his defense.

Again if you can't tell or see the hug difference in 2 way play between Patrick Kane and Crosby at this age I don't know what to tell you as everyone else can clearly see it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

some people like talking about grace which means a substantial drop off, something that never really occurred as Crosby transformed his game and has a pretty regular career arc into his late 20s

Again if you can't tell or see the hug difference in 2 way play between Patrick Kane and Crosby at this age I don't know what to tell you as everyone else can clearly see it.

There was a drop off after 2014, that can’t be ignored. Call it a “transformation” but again, that’s just excuses for his production being less than it was. Crosby may have rounded out his game, but it was nothing substantial and his defense continues to be overrated.

I understand where you are coming from. But facts are facts, the “best player” that season lost the scoring race to Patrick Kane by a large margin, and lost the playoff scoring race to Phil Kessel, two players he is suppose to beat.

 

[wetcoast]

There was a drop off after 2014, that can’t be ignored. Call it a “transformation” but again, that’s just excuses for his production being less than it was. Crosby may have rounded out his game, but it was nothing substantial and his defense continues to be overrated.

3 things here, we agree with the natural aging curve in 14 drops to 93 points in 77 games adjusted down from 116 in 80 games the year before.

The drop off is mainly due to the start and coaching techniques, like I posted above he was the top scorer in the NHL after the first 2 months so his offense was still there for his age.

You say that Crosby's 2 way play is nothing substantial...what does that even mean, do you think Kane is even really close here to Crosby in 2 way play?

I understand where you are coming from. But facts are facts, the “best player” that season lost the scoring race to Patrick Kane by a large margin, and lost the playoff scoring race to Phil Kessel, two players he is suppose to beat.

Phil Kessel played gifted secondary MPG with the opposition focusing on Crosby and Malkin don't make a false equivalency on the importance or which player was better in the playoffs.

Like I said why don't we just all look up the scoring leader and playoff scoring leader and not bother with answering the actual question?

 

[GreatGonzo]

3 things here, we agree with the natural aging curve in 14 drops to 93 points in 77 games adjusted down from 116 in 80 games the year before.

The drop off is mainly due to the start and coaching techniques, like I posted above he was the top scorer in the NHL after the first 2 months so his offense was still there for his age.

You say that Crosby's 2 way play is nothing substantial...what does that even mean, do you think Kane is even really close here to Crosby in 2 way play?

Phil Kessel played gifted secondary MPG with the opposition focusing on Crosby and Malkin don't make a false equivalency on the importance or which player was better in the playoffs.

Like I said why don't we just all look up the scoring leader and playoff scoring leader and not bother with answering the actual question?

“Adjusted.” Let’s look at the stats at face value shall we? No need to use stats that didn’t happen.

I think using Kanes defensive game to prop up crosbys speaks for itself. Kane is in no way a defensive stud and being better than Kane defensively shouldn’t mean much considering he’s the worst at it, right? My point. Is his defense is overblown. It conveniently started once his scoring dropped off.

So the best player in the world couldn’t handle the top match ups? That’s what you’re implying. Kessels line was the difference maker in almost every series while crosbys line continued to struggle offensively. You need your depth to score in the playoffs, especially when your top line can’t handle the tougher match ups.

 

[daver]

More goalpost shifting and putting words in my mouth that I didnt say. It shouldve gone to Kessel.

It could have gone to Kessel. The voting reflected that. Your position is not reasonable.

But he was "carried" at ES by the H and B while the HBK line was given an exclusively offensive role, facing the other team's 3rd line and 2nd pair/3rd pair d-pairings while Crosby's line faced the other team's #1 and d-pairing.

The Pens strategy of rolling three scoring lines was dependent on Crosby and they ended up being one of the more dominant Cup winners since the lockout.

One could argue that Kessel benefited on the PP from the other team's focusing on Crosby and Malkin.

Crosby's all around play and leadership gets underrated on the board.

 

[EdzosCrayon]

I’ve said this before, this was Kanes break out year and he followed it up with more elite seasons

To add to this, one could even argue it started the year before. In 2014-2015, Kane was leading the league in scoring when he went down with an injury for the rest of the year, and if I remember correctly that happened in like February so it wasn't exactly a tiny sample size of games before he got hurt. Yeah, I know this is an injury based "what if" argument, but that combined with him winning the Ross the following year makes it worth mentioning in my opinion.