Value of: Barabanov to Rangers

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Groo

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May 11, 2013
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In what way? Please elaborate on how you figure a player has either maintained or even lost value (ie: a former 2nd rounder being worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder in trade value) after playing well beyond his original draft position for two years. This ought to be hilarious.
See how they like that. Maybe the LA Kings should call up San Jose and offer up Lias Andersson in exchange for William Eklund. After all, they were both 7th overall picks, so that makes their value the same, right?

It's not a "high tower." It's common f***ing sense.
 
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Gecklund

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The point is those guys need ice time to develop. Decreasing their ice time is counterproductive. Especially for a guy riding his linemates coattails.
What has Laf or Kakko done to earn the ice time? Y’all want to compete you get a forward to push them down and hope they figure it out this off-season because they sure as hell haven’t yet.
 

Gecklund

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No huge rush. Window is just opening.
So why not have it actually open? If you can add a guy that improves you now especially with guys like Shesterkin, Fox, Panarin, Zib without giving up really anything why not? Like it’s a 2nd or the equivalent. Those kinds of guys can win you series. If we were talking Hertl, that’s one thing but to add around the fringes with Barabanov I genuinely do not understand why you don’t do that. Laf and Kakko have not shown anything so you’re just going to let them get shat on in the playoffs? That sounds worse for their development than cut playing time.
 

FoxysExpensiveNYDigs

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So why not have it actually open? If you can add a guy that improves you now especially with guys like Shesterkin, Fox, Panarin, Zib without giving up really anything why not? Like it’s a 2nd or the equivalent. Those kinds of guys can win you series. If we were talking Hertl, that’s one thing but to add around the fringes with Barabanov I genuinely do not understand why you don’t do that. Laf and Kakko have not shown anything so you’re just going to let them get shat on in the playoffs? That sounds worse for their development than cut playing time.
Disagree. Playoff experience is important for young players. I'd rather add a center like Stasny anyway.
 

Gecklund

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Disagree. Playoff experience is important for young players. I'd rather add a center like Stasny anyway.
Stastny is no better than Chytil. Playoff experience is definitely important but running them on the third line is still giving them experience. If you’re looking for Cs, I’d go with Acciari or McCann if you don’t want to pay for the likes of Hertl.
 

egelband

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Barabanov can play top6 role ok, and I won't say Rangers bottom6 are good...
Rangers definitely need help in the bottom six. Sounds like a good idea. Rather bolster the bottom six which would (well, could) allow the top six pick up the scoring slack. And cost less than the alternative. This is a good idea.
 

FoxysExpensiveNYDigs

Boo Nieves Truther
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Stastny is no better than Chytil. Playoff experience is definitely important but running them on the third line is still giving them experience. If you’re looking for Cs, I’d go with Acciari or McCann if you don’t want to pay for the likes of Hertl.
Stasny 38 gp, 22 points and 56% on draws.
Chytil 41 gp, 12 points, 42.1% on draws.

I like McCann but think he'll be expensive.
 

Gecklund

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Stasny 38 gp, 22 points and 56% on draws.
Chytil 41 gp, 12 points, 42.1% on draws.

I like McCann but think he'll be expensive.
Acciari is the cheap C I’d go for. Just coming back from injury but was close to an elite 3/4C for FLA a few seasons ago (2 I think, last season was still good but not as good). Honestly for me with Stastny is more his game won’t mesh well with the 3rd line of NYR. I think you look for a bit more of a checker.
 

bernmeister

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Max extending the window?. Sounds more like fantasy fans speak. It also sounds like something no actual GM ever says

Sounds like your opinion, which is fine and which is your right. Howev, it IS subjective, not objective. And I do not cede to you as an authority on what actual GM would say.
An argument can be made that esp in a hard cap situation, max talented youth keeping a window open and extra couple or so yrs is better math risk than going all in and ultimately squandering youth and closing the window early b'c what you add only MAYBE improves team, but does NOT guarantee a cup. Howev, holding youth to long term max is CERTAIN to extend the window.
 

bernmeister

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See how they like that. Maybe the LA Kings should call up San Jose and offer up Lias Andersson in exchange for William Eklund. After all, they were both 7th overall picks, so that makes their value the same, right?

It's not a "high tower." It's common f***ing sense.

As I have noted, draft position controls until the player has sufficient basis to demonstrate their ability, a process which continuously updates going forward.
 

Groo

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Sounds like your opinion, which is fine and which is your right. Howev, it IS subjective, not objective. And I do not cede to you as an authority on what actual GM would say.
An argument can be made that esp in a hard cap situation, max talented youth keeping a window open and extra couple or so yrs is better math risk than going all in and ultimately squandering youth and closing the window early b'c what you add only MAYBE improves team, but does NOT guarantee a cup. Howev, holding youth to long term max is CERTAIN to extend the window.
I'm fine with you not ceding the mind of a GM too me. Just as long as you don't think you wear the mantle.
"NOT guarantee" Of course it's not. And do you know why? Because there's NO such things as a guarantee in sports.
 

Gecklund

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He’s also 27 and has also likely hit or come very close to his ceiling.

This would be stupid for the development of the team’s top 2 young forwards.

You really don’t think before you post.
You really don’t read before you post do you? He’s a rental. It’s not like I’m saying permanently leave him in the top 6.
 

TGWL

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So nothing of any value is available?
Rather give up draft picks. Rangers made offseason moves basically trying to find what Cuylle could turn into. Most of those off season moves failed. I'd rather give up a prospect who fills a lesser hole with a good draft pick. Cuylle involved for a UFA not named Hertl just doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

TGWL

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:laugh: he’s better than both. If you combine those two they have 1 more point than Barabanov in like 2.5x as many games.
So we should continue poor development so we can say the same thing next season? If that's the case the organization should just trade both of them by trade deadline if they see no real NHL talent and won't develop them.
 

Gecklund

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So we should continue poor development so we can say the same thing next season? If that's the case the organization should just trade both of them by trade deadline if they see no real NHL talent and won't develop them.
Do y’all not read? Neither of those guys have shown anything to deserve top 6 minutes in the playoffs. You go out and trade for a Barabanov type that can fill in there and give you depth by bumping one of them out of the top 6.
 

TGWL

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Do y’all not read? Neither of those guys have shown anything to deserve top 6 minutes in the playoffs. You go out and trade for a Barabanov type that can fill in there and give you depth by bumping one of them out of the top 6.
It doesn't matter what they've showed, does it? They were drafted 1 and 2, and still very young. You either develop them or you don't. If you decide they aren't worth it, replace them. You don't just keep them and continue to not develop them.
 

Gecklund

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It doesn't matter what they've showed, does it? They were drafted 1 and 2, and still very young. You either develop them or you don't. If you decide they aren't worth it, replace them. You don't just keep them and continue to not develop them.
Perfect go sign Yakupov then. Obviously doesn’t matter. I think Staal is trying to make a comeback and Patty is still a FA.
 

Pinkfloyd

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It doesn't matter what they've showed, does it? They were drafted 1 and 2, and still very young. You either develop them or you don't. If you decide they aren't worth it, replace them. You don't just keep them and continue to not develop them.

I mean if they've stalled a bit yet your team is contending, adding a depth piece like Barabanov is worth a 2nd to allow the team to compete and develop them. They will still develop even if Barabanov keeps them out of the top six for one stretch run. The playoff experience could help them find another gear even on a third line that you need to go anywhere in the playoffs.
 

TGWL

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Perfect go sign Yakupov then. Obviously doesn’t matter. I think Staal is trying to make a comeback and Patty is still a FA.
So you tell us that we don't read, then post something like that?

We're not saying the player on your roster has no value. We're saying the hole we're trying to trade for here is not top 6 value. We have players that need to play. Unless it's a sure fire, very good, top 6 RW, it doesn't make sense to move assets like Cuylle. If it's top 6 value you expect coming back, the trade clearly won't work. I don't see a lot of contenders trading top 6 value for him, but if that's what you're looking for, then go hold out. Producing more than Laf or Kakko doesn't pencil him in that role for us.
 

Gecklund

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So you tell us that we don't read, then post something like that?

We're not saying the player on your roster has no value. We're saying the hole we're trying to trade for here is not top 6 value. We have players that need to play. Unless it's a sure fire, very good, top 6 RW, it doesn't make sense to move assets like Cuylle. If it's top 6 value you expect coming back, the trade clearly won't work. I don't see a lot of contenders trading top 6 value for him, but if that's what you're looking for, then go hold out. Producing more than Laf or Kakko doesn't pencil him in that role for us.
We said a 2nd. If that’s top 6 value to you, you got some issues. Being better then those guys should pencil him in
 

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