Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Quebec City certainly isn't a future home for a NHL team.

Hockey is embedded into the culture up there, but they cannot support a pro team.

Hockey is not embedded in the culture in Phoenix and they also cannot support a pro team.

There is a huge difference in the two.

Quebec City would certainly be a home IF they had a state of the art arena. That was the reason why the Nords left Quebec City - Le Colisee was old and outdated.

Now that there's a salary cap and if they did get a new arena, Quebec City would thrive with an NHL club.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Who freaking cares about 5th rate leagues like the ECHL, WCHL, PCHL, etc. My goodness.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Kind of reminds me of...

Winnipeg Victorias (1889-1912+)
1896 Stanley Cup
1901 Stanley Cup
1902 Stanley Cup

Winnipeg Falcons (1911-1920+)
1920 Olympic Gold Medal

Winnipeg Jets
WHA (1972-1979)
NHL (1979-1996)

Manitoba Moose
IHL/AHL (1996-current)

You are telling me you don't think the Pacific Coast Hockey League is more important than any of THOSE crappy leagues you just posted?

Puh-lease.

 

[LadyStanley]

There are only 3 options the Coyotes can do...

1) Take control of the team, keep them in Glendale and rename them the Arizona Coyotes (They need to market the team to the entire state like the Cardinals & D-Backs).

2.) Take control of the team, cancel the lease and move this team to Las Vegas. I think it would take balls but would be a success in the city overall.

3.) Lets Basillie buy the team, move them to Southern Ontario and rename them the Hamilton Jets! Trust me, it would be P.R. marketing bliss for the NHL in Canada. Basillie would own the logo, team-name, colors, etc. if he is able to acquire the team.

I think option 3 is the best. Already 3 other teams are struggling financially and that's the Atlanta Thrashers, New York Islanders & Tampa Bay Lightning. Relocation is coming for at least one of those teams and it's either to Kansas City or Portland. I think Kansas City will get 1 team whether it be NBA (Kings) or NHL and stick to that only.

Incorrect. The Coyotes no longer control their future. It's up to the bankruptcy court and/or NHL Board of Governors. (And very simplistic responses to what's been discussed over the last 30 or so pages.)

Marketing to the state is not a bad idea. But if you can't get folks from a hour away (downtown Phoenix) to drive to a mid-week game, what makes you think that efforts would be successful across the state?

The NHL has essentially gotten control. Their primary mission is to attempt to have a viable financial future in their present location before ANY relocation is considered. There appears to be at least one (or maybe more) other potential owner group(s) other than Balsillie out there.

Balsillie has tried to force the NHL and the Board of Governors into accepting his offer and move the franchise by the actions of the last two days. Depending on bankruptcy court's decision the BOG may have to "stomach" Balsillie, but then again, they may get Balsillie out of the picture.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

By the way, since I'm sure people will ***** and moan soon about the thread being derailed, I preemptively apologize. Just had to reply about the insane things being thrown around and such.

I'm done with that.

 

[bhawk24bob]

Phoenix Apaches (Phoenix, AZ) - 1958-1959 - California Hockey League (1954-1963)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 1967-1974 - Pacific Coast Hockey League (1944-1952) - Western Hockey League (1952-1974)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 1974-1977 - World Hockey Association (1972-1979)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 1977-1979 - Pacific Hockey League (1977-1979)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 1977-1978 - Central Professional Hockey League (1963-1968) - Central Hockey League (1968-1984)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 1989-1997 - International Hockey League (1945-2001)
Phoenix Cobras (Phoenix, AZ) - 1993-1995 - Roller Hockey International (1992-1999)
Phoenix Coyotes (Phoenix, AZ) - 1996-2009 - National Hockey League (1917-2009)
Phoenix Mustangs (Phoenix, AZ) - 1997-2001 - West Coast Hockey League (1995-2003)
Phoenix Roadrunners (Phoenix, AZ) - 2005-2009 - East Coast Hockey League (1988-2009)

So, this doesn't justify Phoenix as a hockey town?

This is just asinine.

No, it doesn't justify Phoenix as a hockey town.

Do you know what that list means though?

It means that the Coyotes are just going to be another one of the defunct franchises on that list.

 

[RR]

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/561228

...“The only comment I would make is our role is to protect the interests of the taxpayers and leverage opportunity,†(Councillor Terry) Whitehead said.

Considering Balsillie's willingness to stick it to Glendale taxpayers for his own gain, tread carefully here Councillor Whitehead.

 

[BigMac1212]

How could you possibly believe that?

Your mind is extremely, extremely clouded with PHOENIX.

Quebec City is not a pro hockey town. They are not going to be getting a team and they couldn't support one.

The city also has 1.1 million less people (Phoenix, according to Wiki, has 1.5M people while Quebec City has only around 400K).

Quebec City is tiny compared to Phoenix.

Again. It's a huge hockey area, but they simply cannot support a pro level team.

Yet, you claim that Quebec City is a hockey hotbed without a pro team. You're the one who's not getting it.

 

[RTN]

You are telling me you don't think the Pacific Coast Hockey League is more important than any of THOSE crappy leagues you just posted?

Puh-lease.

Uh, I think you're quoting the wrong poster. I was just trying to show the other guy that there are reasons why some places are hockey towns and others are not, even if they have hosted tier II/III pro.

EDIT: NVM then, sorry about that. I just thought you got caught up in the moment.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Uh, I think you're quoting the wrong poster. I was just trying to show the other guy that there are reasons why some places are hockey towns and others are not, even if they have hosted tier II/III pro.

Was being sarcastic.

 

[BigMac1212]

Quebec City has a QMJHL team, and I'd say that is probably a bigger deal than an AHL team or any other minor pro league.

That's so much of a stretch I forgot to laugh.

 

[LadyStanley]

ENOUGH

Phoenix (and Arizona) has had a number of hockey franchises that *for whatever reason* have not had a sustained long term presence.

That may or may not have anything to do with the current situation of the NHL franchise's financial issues. The quality of hockey may have more to do with attendance. Or the issue of folks not willing to travel *hours* to see a game.

This is not a "potential location" is better thread.

Let's keep it to facts, folks. And discuss the current situation in Phoenix. Not where they may move, nor the history of other organizations.

 

[Brodie]

I agree 100%. I think there is more to this then just JB (for the life of me, I can't consistently spell Balsillie correctly) trying to move the Coyotes.

Even if the NHL is to "win" this battle, I think it will come at a considerable price...better to just allow Balsillie an expansion franchise in Southern Ontario, and keep the Yotes in Phoenix.

The NHL could be smart and open a bidding war for an expansion team in Hamilton. We know of at least one other group interested in Southern Ontario outside Balsillie, and I'm sure there are more who would be willing to step up. They might get their cake and eat it, too.

Plus it would give them an opening to pick another market to pair with the Ontario team. Kansas City, Houston, Portland... the two expansion fees and the new market would be a major coupe for the league.

 

[19Yzerman19]

ENOUGH

Phoenix (and Arizona) has had a number of hockey franchises that *for whatever reason* have not had a sustained long term presence.

That may or may not have anything to do with the current situation of the NHL franchise's financial issues. The quality of hockey may have more to do with attendance. Or the issue of folks not willing to travel *hours* to see a game.

This is not a "potential location" is better thread.

Let's keep it to facts, folks. And discuss the current situation in Phoenix. Not where they may move, nor the history of other organizations.

You go girl!

 

[GSC2k2*]

I'd like to get an opinion, especially from GSCarpenter, on if anyone thinks this will ultimately result in a team in Hamilton through some means.

I have serious doubts.

Moyes is coming to bankruptcy court with incredibly unclean hands. This is clearly a facade to void his lease. Given that he was being financed, he was in no real danger of being unable to meet his debts as they came due.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

EDIT: NVM then, sorry about that. I just thought you got caught up in the moment.

Tis OK. I don't use the sarcasm smiley a lot and it tends to get me in trouble.

 

[RR]

I think that's the outcome he's hoping for, too. There is no way he got into this situation without knowing how open and shut it could be for the NHL unless he figured he had something to gain. I think he's trying to force them into playing ball.

I think at this point he's tired of trying to play by the rules (I know he never really did anyway) and is going for the brass ring, and he's not afraid of doing whatever it takes. I think it might work.

Agreed. And I think the answer to your earlier question is an emphatic, yes.

 

[kombayn]

Incorrect. The Coyotes no longer control their future. It's up to the bankruptcy court and/or NHL Board of Governors. (And very simplistic responses to what's been discussed over the last 30 or so pages.)

Marketing to the state is not a bad idea. But if you can't get folks from a hour away (downtown Phoenix) to drive to a mid-week game, what makes you think that efforts would be successful across the state?

The NHL has essentially gotten control. Their primary mission is to attempt to have a viable financial future in their present location before ANY relocation is considered. There appears to be at least one (or maybe more) other potential owner group(s) other than Balsillie out there.

Balsillie has tried to force the NHL and the Board of Governors into accepting his offer and move the franchise by the actions of the last two days. Depending on bankruptcy court's decision the BOG may have to "stomach" Balsillie, but then again, they may get Balsillie out of the picture.

It's up to the courts to look at everything, not the NHL Board of Governors. They don't control the court systems. They can only present the case that Moyes shouldn't have been allowed to file bankruptcy, which is a hard charge to prove.

If they do win then I think the only option is to market to the whole state by changing the team name to the Arizona Coyotes. It may not work but it may help associate the state more to go see this team especially if they compete for a playoff spot. Just compete and fans will come.

But, the main goal of the courts is to get the money back to the creditors, if the NHL can't find another viable suitor to take-over the team, they're going to lose. The NHLPA is going to raise hell if the NHL buys the team and keeps them in Glendale I believe personally. They'll just keep losing money and that is not good for this team. I suspect the Hamilton Jets will be a go by June 30th, 2009.

 

[Brodie]

I have serious doubts.

Moyes is coming to bankruptcy court with incredibly unclean hands. This is clearly a facade to void his lease. Given that he was being financed, he was in no real danger of being unable to meet his debts as they came due.

Do you think this might get them to monetize the "asset" that is Southern Ontario?

 

[GSC2k2*]

How can you post credentials on HF?

The truth is 99% of lawyers have no idea which way this will go, because it has never happened before (though there have been somewhat similar cases in other sports, but still not identical).

The big ? is if the NHL can secure another buyer who will keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. This may force the NHL to waive the 35ish million owed to them.

Never happened before?

You're kidding, right? Franchises are franchises. There is nothing particularly unique about sports franchises, sorry.

Franchises go bankrupt all the time. Every day.

And it is quite easy to establish one's credentials, if you have some.

 

[iceless]

ENOUGH

Phoenix (and Arizona) has had a number of hockey franchises that *for whatever reason* have not had a sustained long term presence.

That may or may not have anything to do with the current situation of the NHL franchise's financial issues. The quality of hockey may have more to do with attendance. Or the issue of folks not willing to travel *hours* to see a game.

This is not a "potential location" is better thread.

Let's keep it to facts, folks. And discuss the current situation in Phoenix. Not where they may move, nor the history of other organizations.

Here's a fact: there are not enough "hockey fans" in Phoenix to warrant them having an NHL team.

The reality here is that when an organization in a non-traditional market is giving away FREE tickets to try and stimulate demand, the franchise will suffer irrecuperable losses in the future. This is where the 'Yotes are today... this is where they would be 10 years from now.

 

[vofty]

Big whoop.

All those teams folded.

I wonder why?

Maybe due to Phoenix not being a hockey town!

Dallas was not a hockey town when the Stars were moved from the "state of hockey". Seemed to really make a difference didn't it? Dallas is one of the fastest growing junior hockey markets and it is because of the Dallas Stars. There is more to this disaster than simply stating that Phoenix is not a hockey town and people there don't know what it takes to support a team.

And considering all of the Sunbelt teams are all non-traditional markets compared to Detroit, Minnesota, Boston, etc. they should greatly outnumber Sunbelt teams in number of up and coming players. I could go on I think the article below does a pretty good job of illustrating my point.

In 2007-08, players from Southern California, Arizona and Texas comprised the majority of Americans in the WHL. Eighteen of 33 players this season came from sun-splashed states, including one from Nevada.

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/s...ky-south17-web/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

 

[GSC2k2*]

Do you think this might get them to monetize the "asset" that is Southern Ontario?

Only as a last resort.

If JB is ever awarded a franchise or allowed to purchase one, I will freely admit to being shocked. After his actions, he would be the last person I would ever want to be a fellow owner if I owned an NHL franchise. His conduct is not that of a serious businessman. Every time I see him or hear him speak, I get a certain vibe that would make me run the other way if he ever wanted to do business with me.

 

[LadyStanley]

But, the main goal of the courts is to get the money back to the creditors, if the NHL can't find another viable suitor to take-over the team, they're going to lose. The NHLPA is going to raise hell if the NHL buys the team and keeps them in Glendale I believe personally. They'll just keep losing money and that is not good for this team. I suspect the Hamilton Jets will be a go by June 30th, 2009.

And as has been alluded to by Bettman in articles in the past couple of days (and in previous months), there are other *potential* owners out there. Including one who lives and has business interests near Glendale.

The bankruptcy court may choose to award ownership to a new owner who is offering less $$s, but with out any conditions (such as moving).

 

[Brodie]

Only as a last resort.

If JB is ever awarded a franchise or allowed to purchase one, I will freely admit to being shocked. After his actions, he would be the last person I would ever want to be a fellow owner if I owned an NHL franchise. His conduct is not that of a serious businessman. Every time I see him or hear him speak, I get a certain vibe that would make me run the other way if he ever wanted to do business with me.

What about awarding one to another group (let's use the Vaughun group as an example) in order to kill off Balsillie's plans and main source of support in the Canadian court of public opinion?