Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes

[The Tourettes Guy]

I just want to make a general observation in this thread and state the obvious. Bettman is going to get murdered in Canada publicity wise. I've been watching the CBC late night news here and the potential deal has dominated the broadcast. Interviews with Canadians supporting Balsillie. They just devoted an entire segment to a debate with some guy from the Globe and Mail vs Al Strachan. This is going to get very ugly for Gary.

 

[DisplacedIslander]

Here's a fact: there are not enough "hockey fans" in Phoenix to warrant them having an NHL team.

The reality here is that when an organization in a non-traditional market is giving away FREE tickets to try and stimulate demand, the franchise will suffer irrecuperable losses in the future. This is where the 'Yotes are today... this is where they would be 10 years from now.

Exactly what proof do you have that "hockey fans" don't exist in Phoenix? I'd love to see your numbers, because I have numbers of my own...

The last I checked, and having lived there for a while, the Yotes were a very popular draw, especially since they got the new digs in Glendale. I attended games and even for snoozefests they would be almost to the rafters.

Also, keep in mind that behind CA and CO, AZ has the third largest youth hockey program in the West, with rinks sprouting up like trees and enrollment in USA Hockey affiliations going from nothing to substantial since the Yotes came to town. There's a Central Hockey League team, an ECHL team, and blossoming club programs at both ASU and U of A.

To claim that this is the fault of the fans is dead wrong. Yes Virginia, there is a Hockey Claus in the Southwest.

Please do research before you make a claim in the future...

 

[Brodie]

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/s...ky-south17-web/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

I think you make a great point, but I'd argue that the article fails to reinforce it. The WHL has a limited pool of states to draft from, and the players from traditional states (North Dakota, Minnesota, Colorado, etc) are more likely to go the USHL/college route.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Where, in writing, is this other buyer willing to buy the team with no financing for 217.5M dollars?

I haven't heard anything about THAT yet. A bunch of rumors and thoughts.

What makes you think there is no financing?

The press releases indicate that his offer is not conditional on financing. That does not mean that there is no financing. What it means is that JB has already arranged his financing and has a firm commitment form his banks.

People think JB is a billionaire in cash. He is not. His assets are for the most part tied up in RIM stock.

 

[GSC2k2*]

What about awarding one to another group (let's use the Vaughun group as an example) in order to kill off Balsillie's plans and main source of support in the Canadian court of public opinion?

Also a possibility, although again only as a last resort. I have raised this possibility before, seeing as the NFL used a variant of this to screw Al Davis after he moved to LA.

The NHL has plenty of guns to fire before that one.

 

[Jake16]

Jake, you beat me to the punch over on this Board. Here is a post that i made on Mirtle's blog about three hours ago:



Great minds think alike.

Carpenter, maybe they did teach me something at the Univ. or Toronto Law School after all.

"Dreger: Who in control of Coyotes?: NHL or Jerry Moyes:
....The NHL will also argue owners simply own the right to operate a team in a specific region or territory, Owners are shareholders in the National Hockey League and don't have the right to apply conditions to any sale that includes moving the franchise."

 

[RR]

Also a possibility, although again only as a last resort. I have raised this possibility before, seeing as the NFL used a variant of this to screw Al Davis after he moved to LA.

The NHL has plenty of guns to fire before that one.

So, you think the NHL will "go to the mattresses" with Balsillie rather than give an inch?

 

[GSC2k2*]

I just want to make a general observation in this thread and state the obvious. Bettman is going to get murdered in Canada publicity wise. I've been watching the CBC late night news here and the potential deal has dominated the broadcast. Interviews with Canadians supporting Balsillie. They just devoted an entire segment to a debate with some guy from the Globe and Mail vs Al Strachan. This is going to get very ugly for Gary.

I suspect he cares about that approximately as much as he cares about the lint that he flicked off his suit yesterday.

And that is exactly how much he SHOULD care about that.

The non-businesspeople on here do not understand that he is quite aware that part of his role is to take all the heat off the owners. I assure you that his sense of self-worth is not tied up in the opinions of hockey fans about his acumen.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Carpenter, maybe they did teach me something at the Univ. or Toronto Law School after all.

"Dreger: Who in control of Coyotes?: NHL or Jerry Moyes:
....The NHL will also argue owners simply own the right to operate a team in a specific region or territory, Owners are shareholders in the National Hockey League and don't have the right to apply conditions to any sale that includes moving the franchise."

So we scooped TSN, I guess. Maybe they are feeding them their info.

It really is funny (and a bit satisfying, perhaps) that we were both formulating the same basic idea separately, albeit posting them on separate sites.

Dreger does not have it QUITE right, of course, since the owners are all co-joint-venturers, not "shareholders", but close enough for government work.

You have proved your chops. That doesn't mean you were right before, though.

 

[Brodie]

I suspect he cares about that approximately as much as he cares about the lint that he flicked off his suit yesterday.

And that is exactly how much he SHOULD care about that.

The non-businesspeople on here do not understand that he is quite aware that part of his role is to take all the heat off the owners. I assure you that his sense of self-worth is not tied up in the opinions of hockey fans about his acumen.

He's made a really nice living off of being hated in Canada, I imagine the "Buttman" stuff makes him laugh if anything.

 

[GSC2k2*]

So, you think the NHL will "go to the mattresses" with Balsillie rather than give an inch?

I think so. I saw your post earlier and meant to respond. Any give by the NHL at this point will serve as a pretty clear signal to any other owner or prospective owner that the NHL will only fight so far.

This issue is fundamental to any league. Frankly, I would suspect that, if the NHL asked the other major leagues to kick in with legal fees, they would seriously consider it, as this has ramifications for them as well.

 

[Brodie]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_y...?slug=ap-coyotes-bankruptcy&prov=ap&type=lgns

League spokesman Frank Brown said attorneys for the NHL would appear in federal bankruptcy court in Phoenix on Thursday. He would not say what action the league would take, but commissioner Gary Bettman said Wednesday that whether Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes had the authority to file for bankruptcy “is something we’re going to look into.â€

Moyes’ attorney, Thomas Salerno, said any challenge by the NHL would have no merit.

“They are mistaken,†Salerno told The Associated Press.

 

[GSC2k2*]

He's made a really nice living off of being hated in Canada, I imagine the "Buttman" stuff makes him laugh if anything.

He's made a great living off being an excellent businessman, in addition to being a nonpareil herder of cats. It is impossible to overestimate the difficulty of keeping thirty partners with disparate ownership situations going in the same direction for 17 years, to say nothing of saving three franchises out of bankruptcy (and I strongly suspect he will add one more notch to his belt).

 

[kombayn]

And as has been alluded to by Bettman in articles in the past couple of days (and in previous months), there are other *potential* owners out there. Including one who lives and has business interests near Glendale.

The bankruptcy court may choose to award ownership to a new owner who is offering less $$s, but with out any conditions (such as moving).

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/articles/2009/05/05/20090505reinsdorf.html

That "potential" owner is Jerry Reinsdorf who has a home in Paradise Valley and his team the Chicago White Sox have MLB Spring Training in Glendale, Arizona. He's talked to them about it and showed an interest.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/feb/06/sports/chi-07-reinsdorf-coyotes-buyfeb07

He's also shown disinterest, but this way before the NHL got involved with the Coyotes finances personally. I think Reinsdorf is the only shot at keeping the Phoenix Coyotes in Glendale, Arizona. Otherwise I think the courts will have no choice but to give Basillie the team. It would also be moronic if the Board of Governors tried to block the sale. They won't do it because it could cost them in CBA negations with the NHLPA

 

[LadyStanley]

It would also be moronic if the Board of Governors tried to block the sale. They won't do it because it could cost them in CBA negations with the NHLPA

Based on all the stories posted in this thread, I do not understand where this statement is coming from.

The NHL is first questioning the right/ability of Moyes to file bankruptcy (in part as there had been no "call" by creditors).

Second, the NHL seems to want to assert its right to say where franchises can operate (and/or be relocated), not the bankruptcy court.

Only then do we get into the issues of Balsillie as an owner the NHL and BOG would accept and whether the BOG would allow relocation, and allow relocation to Southern Ontario.

Please support claim.

 

[kombayn]

The Bankruptcy Courts have to do what is best for the creditors, not the NHL. If this is the only REAL offer, the only offer on the table (Think Manny Ramirez & the Dodgers), the courts will have to force the NHL to take the offer.

The Commish has also said that they're looking into "preventing the bankruptcy and its validity." Chapter 11 was filed, now they're trying to have it be a take-back because it was done under their nose.

So say the courts approve the sale, now what is the Commish and BoG going to do? They'll be pressured by the NHLPA to take the deal and if they don't, it'll blow up in their faces. It gives the NHLPA bargaining power in the next CBA.

If the Commish and BoG are smart and they lose this case, they need to allow the team to relocate. If they try to block this, it's going to cause a lot of problems with the players.

 

[Anthony*]

why would the PA care at all

 

[kombayn]

They share revenues with the owners, more money (which is in Southern Ontario) made means more money for the players. Head of the NHLPA Paul Kelly has already stated in an interview about this how he supports the sale to Balsillie but understands how the BoG are upset by him trying this under their nose.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I find the NHL's claim that "Moyes gave up the franchise months ago" strange. If he did, why didn't they announce it? Why did they keep letting him make desicions involving the future of the franchise?

 

[LadyStanley]

So say the courts approve the sale, now what is the Commish and BoG going to do? They'll be pressured by the NHLPA to take the deal and if they don't, it'll blow up in their faces. It gives the NHLPA bargaining power in the next CBA.

First, the sale is conditional on allowing a move.

Second, the BoG approves not only the sale of a franchise (and the new ownership), but any relocation deal. (And there's the $$$$$$$$$ issue of paying Buffalo, Toronto and/or Detroit for infringing on their respective territories. So until that issue is resolved, I don't know that the matter would even be brought before the BOG. Haven't seen anything from Balsillie about that.)


Third, the NHLPA membership wants to participate in the 2014 and beyond winter Olympics, which the NHL and BOG aren't keen about. So if anything, they'll have to make concessions in the next CBA negotiation to get that to hpappen. As the current CBA does not count any expansion or relocation territorial right $$s as part of HRR, how does that give the NHLPA anything?

 

[kombayn]

The NHLPA (SportsBusinessDaily.com) has put up numerous amounts of information about the NHLPA wanting a say in relocation and expansion in the next CBA. They're letting it be known loud and clear.

As for relocation fees, approvals and territorial rights. Basillie has already prove he'll spend anything (over-pay for the Coyotes) to get an NHL team in Southern Ontario. Sooner or later, the dream will become a reality whether it's the Coyotes or not.

 

[Rob]

I find the NHL's claim that "Moyes gave up the franchise months ago" strange. If he did, why didn't they announce it? Why did they keep letting him make desicions involving the future of the franchise?

They were lying.

 

[LadyStanley]

Note -- I've copied posts discussing NHLPA "wants" for the next CBA to throw out some ideas on concessions to have the NHL agree to those points in a new thread.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/steve_simmons/2009/05/06/9366906-sun.html

Toronto pundit on "the dumbest, most stubborn, successful entrepreneur around."

But if he honestly believes he can pull an end-run on commissioner Gary Bettman, secure an NHL franchise, move it, and use a public website to drum up support for a seventh Canadian franchise, then he is either getting terrible advice or he is simply fond of banging his head against the wall. Because that's all he can accomplish here. This is a war he may not be able to win.

Even if he's willing to overpay for the moribund Coyotes, which he is.

Even if he's wanting to put another franchise in southern Ontario, which makes too much sense, the NHL doesn't work this way. You have to have finesse to get into this club. You have to be subtle.

 

[LadyStanley]

(Been working so hard on mod'ing this thread, I haven't had time to peruse my "sources" for news. But it's quiet now so here we go...)


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4146475&name=09cupplayoffsblog
LeBrun on a 2nd franchise in Onatrio

The Toronto Maple Leafs are the No. 1 reason it hasn't happened; they will oppose it until they are blue (and white) in the face. But money talks, and a new team would just need to fork over serious indemnity fees. So be it. The Los Angeles Kings received $25 million as an indemnity fee when Anaheim came into the league back in the early 1990s. Triple that, and you might be in business in Toronto.

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/5/6/867118/gary-bettman-with-the-wall-street
Bettman on WSJ.com (video) on the Future of Sports


http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/5/6/867178/i-am-not-surprised-by-it-he-is
NHLPA Kelly

"We want what is best for hockey and we want what is best for the players. If that turns out to be in Phoenix, that is great and we will support it. If it turns out that's bringing in a new owner and moving that team to southern Ontario, we will be extremely pleased and that would be great for our players."

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/5/6/867162/without-knowing-a-lot-of-the
Wings Alt Governor Jim Devellano

The owners like to do these things on a quiet basis and get things done properly. Gary Bettman wants to hockey to work in Phoenix and I for one think it can work in Phoenix.