Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes

[marc-edouard grier]

Buffalo and Ottawa, for starters.

Shhhhh! Don't let facts get in the way of a good fairy tale




A bit OT, but what was the deal with Pitt? Were they on the verge of bankruptcy, or was it part of a leveraging deal with the city for an arena, or were they never even close to bankruptcy when there was movement talk with them?

 

[Artyukhin*]

I heard on the radio today (fan590) that there is a report that Jim B has offered Gretzky a 10-15% ownership stake and offered to name a new arena after his father...


who knows if this is true, but it keeps getting weirder by the moment...

naming the stadium after Waynes dad is pretty classy gesture in my opinion not too weird.

Jobbing.com arena= weird



Bettmen has shown and continues to show his "do not want jim" .


So until Gary leaves maybe Jim is left to try to do what he can to help him leave sooner

AND NHL commsioner Gretzky some day might be the man to bring a second hockey team to Toronto and shake JIM's hand as they cut the ribbon.(think ahead)

 

[MountainHawk]

Gary Gary Gary

wondering how may teams go bankrupt in a city ,then remain there to "flourish" successfully?


Anyone have any stats?



phx losing 30 million a year that's alot of hay to try to take off the table to get back to break even.

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Ottawa in the last 20 years.

 

[jessebelanger]

Pittsburgh has twice declared bankruptcy.

Don't tell the kiddies that though

 

[Alberta Yote]

Gary Gary Gary

wondering how may teams go bankrupt in a city ,then remain there to "flourish" successfully?


Anyone have any stats?



phx losing 30 million a year that's alot of hay to try to take off the table to get back to break even.

If Bettman is successful in blocking this relocation and in doing so Balsillie's offer to purchase (and that appears to be what gscarpenter thinks is going to happen), the offer that he was about to present to Moyes is from Jerry Reinsdorf.

I know you likely know this but the man has taken over two seperate professional sports franchises when neither was very successful either on the playing surface or on their income statements, and has made them both champions and successful and profitable teams.

My guess is that he isn't about to make an offer on a franchise that he doesn't think he can turn around at this point in his life, he certainly doesn't have the reputation as a guy that would throw away any money let alone $120-$150 million. Forgive me if I put more stock into what he thinks he can do than what 75% of the posters in this thread think.

 

[marc-edouard grier]

naming the stadium after Waynes dad is pretty classy gesture in my opinion not too weird.

Jobbing.com arena= weird



Bettmen has shown and continues to show his "do not want jim" .


So until Gary leaves maybe Jim is left to try to do what he can to help him leave sooner

AND NHL commsioner Gretzky some day might be the man to bring a second hockey team to Toronto and shake JIM's hand as they cut the ribbon.(think ahead)

I think Wayne should learn how to coach first.

Or if he doesn't want to do that, stop coaching and do something that doesn't lead to his team losing.

Pittsburgh has twice declared bankruptcy.

Don't tell the kiddies that though

The league didn't hear them the first time, so they did it again. Then end result. Here and here.

If Bettman is successful in blocking this relocation and in doing so Balsillie's offer to purchase (and that appears to be what gscarpenter thinks is going to happen), the offer that he was about to present to Moyes is from Jerry Reinsdorf.

I know you likely know this but the man has taken over two seperate professional sports franchises when neither was very successful either on the playing surface or on their income statements, and has made them both champions and successful and profitable teams.

My guess is that he isn't about to make an offer on a franchise that he doesn't think he can turn around at this point in his life, he certainly doesn't have the reputation as a guy that would throw away any money let alone $120-$150 million. Forgive me if I put more stock into what he thinks he can do than what 75% of the posters in this thread think.

75%!?!?! No matter which side of the debate people in this thread are on, I'll take his opinion over 99% of the people in this thread, at the minimum.

 

[Stronso]

Glendale courted top sports exec to save Coyotes - AZRep

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/05/06/20090506biz-coyotes0507.html

"The city of Glendale is working with interested parties and one of those parties we had a conversation with was Mr. Reinsdorf," Ed Beasley, Glendale city manager, said Wednesday. "We are working with the (NHL) league and will aggressively work to keep this team in Glendale and the state of Arizona."

Beasley declined to provide additional details on negotiations with Reinsdorf, a part-time Paradise Valley resident who, through a spokesman, declined to comment. Reinsdorf is majority owner of the NBA's Chicago Bulls and baseball's Chicago White Sox, who this year moved their spring training facility from Tucson to Camelback Ranch, which Glendale built.

Phoenix attorney John Kaites said that he began putting together a team of investors and approached the city and team six months ago about taking over and keeping the Coyotes in Glendale.

 

[jessebelanger]

I'll up you one and go with 100%

Just a shame that he hates the country of Canada

 

[Alberta Yote]

75%!?!?! No matter which side of the debate people in this thread are on, I'll take his opinion over 99% of the people in this thread, at the minimum.

Agreed, I was more talking about the 75% that say there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that anyone can make any money on an NHL team in Phoenix. Of course my number is still likely low.

 

[Brodie]

I'm confused. How is it any less viable for the league to sell Balsilie an expansion franchise than what he currently proposes? In one situation the league gets the money, in the other Moyes does. The price may be higher, but isn't that the league's right. Other than that Balisillie (or whoever else gets the team) has the same expenditures. So I don't agree.

The price certainly may be higher in a year or two when the economy is stronger, but who ever said this was about getting Balsillie a prime asset (an Ontario franchise) at a bargain price (the cost of a bruised Phoenix franchise).

It's less viable because it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[vivianmb]

NOTE to 90% of the posters in this thread:

...in "traditional" markets or markets with longstanding hockey culture and tradition:
--- more sellouts
--- higher attendance
--- more fans
--- more "gate revenue" and other revenue generated
--- some exception to the above includes periods of poor ownership (see Chicago Blackhawks for the past 10+ years before this year)
--- game isn't "growing" into new markets

... in "non-traditional" markets or "new hockey markets"
--- less sellouts
--- lower attendance
--- less fans -- HOWEVER, over time (1 generation? 2? 3?) this number will organically increase, especially as new rinks, new youth programs, and hockey culture begins to establish roots in that city
--- NHL footprint slowly expands, increasing overall market for the sport

You need BOTH types of teams in the NHL. They BOTH serve a purpose. The two sides can argue until they are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is this league needs both types of teams to continue to produce a healthy product.

Can we all just accept this point and move on?

no because it isn't proven that the numbers will grow over the generations.use the ahl to do that stuff. leave the nhl for the real hockey towns.

 

[SoCalPredFan]

no because it isn't proven that the numbers will grow over the generations.use the ahl to do that stuff. leave the nhl for the real hockey towns.

I've got a good idea:
Let's fold all of the American NHL teams, add several more in Canada (Saskatoon, Regina, Halifax, Yellowknife, London, Moncton, and Winnipeg for starters) ... Take the new re-formatted 14-team league and never let it grow to any city that isn't a "real hockey town" ... golly gee, everybody, wouldn't that be great!!!??!

It'd be fantastic. We'd get the same international exposure and N.American TV coverage as Curling. Players from all of the world will be knocking down the door to make huge salaries. Whooppeee!!!

-t

 

[SuperDave21]

I stated in an earleir repost fans such as you are what will grow the game but they need enough to support the huge costs which seems difficult in Pheonix and i do admire your conviction and desire to keep your team if i were you blame Buttman he knew for some time how bad this was and hid it from fans , in fact he made public statements that led most people to think hockey in Pheonix was doing well , I also feel sorry about seeing passionate fans maybe losing a team but if that happens do not stop supporting local hockey from minor for kids to junior to minor pro because in time having success with all those will make an NHL team viable in those regions

Thanks for the support!

Well as it turns out the Canadian media was right.

Right about what exactly? That the team should move to Canada? Seems that there are a lot of people against it.

Were they right that our owner would go behind our backs and file bankruptcy because he's a wiener? Not even close.

The Canadian media only used propaganda to form lukewarm opinions at best:

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/s...5.wsptcoyotes5/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/s...wxnhlcoyotes14/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.w-coyotes18/BNStory/Entertainment/

...and there are more. Do the articles contain some factual information? Sure, but it's blown way out of proportion every time. Go on their website and just search for "Phoenix Coyotes." They have countless stories like this.

 

[Rob]

Right about what exactly?

That the team was headed for Bankruptcy. Something the apologists here denied. It was supposedly being overblown by the Canadian media just to "sell more newspapers".

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't see why the bankruptcy judge wouldn't be able to enforce the move of the team.

As long as the the purchase is in the best interests of the creditors and the sale goes through, the team will be gone.

This is federal bankruptcy court. I don't think that Balsille has to worry about the NHL rejecting the move of the team.

 

[Jake16]

ESPN reports:

"A successful bankruptcy filing could allow the Coyotes to avoid the $750 million penalty for breaking its 30-year lease with Glendale. But Beasley said that when the lease was forged with Moyes and Ellman it was worded with just such a possibility in mind.

"We're comfortable that we have put in the safeguards to get a very strong position out there to keep the team in the city of Glendale," Beasley said."

If that's the case, Moyes is playing a very dangerous game here. Haven't seen the contractual language at issue that Beasley relies, but if there is some type of personal guarantee, Moyes could get hit with the penalty. He hasn't filed for personal bankruptcy.

Frankly, I don't know how the city could have not have forseen the possibility of the bankruptcy by the Coyotes LLC and and taken precautions. Build a $200M arena for an undercapitalized company that has never made a dime operating in Canada or the US, and not get some type of backup protection???

Mod edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4146333

 

[jessebelanger]

I don't see why the bankruptcy judge wouldn't be able to enforce the move of the team.

As long as the the purchase is in the best interests of the creditors and the sale goes through, the team will be gone.

This is federal bankruptcy court. I don't think that Balsille has to worry about the NHL rejecting the move of the team.

As carpenter and others have stated about 1000 times before, and I will state it one last time, a judge can not change the basic terms of a contract. It may very well be, and probably is, that the franchise agreement is for a team in Phoenix - not for a team in XYZABCD location.

As such, the judge may very well award the team to JB, but it is doubtful that there is much he/she would be able to do in terms of forcing the NHL to allow JB to relocate the team.

I'm not sure what JB can do if the BoG votes against the move - this is probably why he has started this rediculous PR compaign to try and force the NHL into allowing the move.

 

[Alberta Yote]

That the team was headed for Bankruptcy. Something the apologists here denied. It was supposedly being overblown by the Canadian media just to "sell more newspapers".

They ended up in bankrutcy as Moyes made a desperate, last minute attempt to try to manouver the system to put more money back into his pockets. I don't actually hold that against him as he has lost a crapload of money on this investment.

But, in case you missed it, there was an offer about to be finalized with the Reinsdorf group that would have seen the franshise go forward without the threat of bankruptcy.

A desperate and unforseen act made them correct, can they see the future?

Mod: deleted.

 

[RTN]

I think the Leafs for one, would beg to differ with you. I guarantee you that MLSE thinks another team in their backyard is worth far more than 212.5. Plus, having lived in Toronto, I understand that an original 6 team downtown may have a higher value, but you can't credibly say that putting the team wherever Balsillie wants to put it is "not like we're talking about another Toronto or Montreal team." Balsillie said he was looking to put a team in that 7-8 million person metro area. Doesn't the fact Tampa sold for like 206 tell you the Ontario team is woirth alot more. The Habs are about to be sold for over 500.

I guess the way to tell for sure is to open the process to bidders for an expansion team.

If you've lived in Toronto then you know there's no way he'll put it in GTA. We're talking about Hamilton/K-W. Nothing in Hamilton is worth 300+ million (no offence intended for people from Hamilton). So we aren't talking about him "putting it anywhere he wants to."

That's not correct. The Montreal Canadiens + Bell Centre + their entertainment company will be sold for 450+ million, not just the Canadiens.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Mod: deleted

I never claimed to be a bankruptcy professional, but after speaking to a few people I know in the business who have been in front of bankruptcy judges in the past, I came to that understanding of how it would go down.

If the bankruptcy judge feels that that's the best offer, I don't see how they would not be able to enforce a move.

Regardless of that, this can only look bad for the NHL. Especially if they try to block the move and get taken to another court in a battle over anti-trust issues.

 

[Valic]

Why is everyone missing the big point.

Phoenix had 14 years to create and maintain a hockey market that would sustain a team in the good and bad times.

Lets face it, you are going to essentially miss the playoffs 45% of the time so claiming you need to win and often to be sucessful is a crutch.

Phoenix had plenty of time to create the framework needed to support NHL hockey, and obviously the owner didn't see it having a chance at doing so.

I don't care where it moves, but if noone wants to eat all the losses in Phoenix why should anyone attempt to block someone from giving another city a fair chance.

 

[RTN]

Mod: deleted.

How can you post credentials on HF?

The truth is 99% of lawyers have no idea which way this will go, because it has never happened before (though there have been somewhat similar cases in other sports, but still not identical).

The big ? is if the NHL can secure another buyer who will keep the Coyotes in Phoenix. This may force the NHL to waive the 35ish million owed to them.

 

[Go Yotes 97]

http://ktar.com/?sid=1151379&nid=618

2) The franchise deserves what it got for one simple reason. The Coyotes never had the guts to fire Wayne Gretzky. How many chances to fail does one guy get? He coached veteran teams and couldn't make the playoffs. He coached youth movement teams and couldn't make the playoffs. This team made it all the way to a 4-seed this year (right before the all-star break) and then completely collasped. It's clear Wayne Gretzky couldn't lead this team to a playoff trip. He was given continued chances for two reasons: 1) he's the Great One, and 2) an owner. Neither of those reasons mean he can coach.

4) The franchise also got what they deserve by moving to Glendale. I live in Goodyear. I'm a West Valley guy. I completely have bought into the hard life on this side of the tracks while the East Valley has caviar on cereal. It was still a drastic mistake to move to the West Valley. The team wanted to run for the money. They wanted to stick it to Scottsdale for not building an arena for the team. The Coyotes cut off their nose, gouged their eyes out, ripped out their tounge and yanked out their Adam's Apple (like Dalton did to Bobby in Road House) just to spite their face. When the bulk of your fans live 45 minutes away, why do you think they'll drive that for 41 home games a year?

 

[Go Yotes 97]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/05/06/20090506spt-bickleycoyotes.html

Mod edit: article allows one Arizona pundit to vent, try to summarize history of the past 36 hours and think about placing blame.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What time is the court appearance tomorrow? Am wondering when we will hear anything about the outcome.