Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes

[MayDay]

can we expect a remark from the american president?
hockey is so big here the prime minister even comments on it.

No, our president tends to spend his time working on important international economic, political, diplomatic, and security matters.

Hey, but it's great that your leader doesn't have anything better to do with his time than concern himself with the fate of a bankrupt sports team. Good for him.

 

[vivianmb]

How do you know? Do you live in Arizona? Do you even follow the Coyotes? If you said no to all of those questions, then you have absolutely NO right to say anything. What you stated was opinion, not fact. Just because our team has been bad for 6-7 years does not mean that the sport of hockey isn't working in Arizona. That's completely biased and ignorant.

It seems to me that everyone has a prenotion that Arizona is still some wild west cowboy town, where the big city lights are scary to us "town folk." By golly we's just lucky enough to have ourselves one of them baseball teams down in the ol' OK Corral huh?

Instead of making assumptions, come down to Phoenix and see for yourself how hockey is thriving here. Come to our rinks and see people standing around, discussing the playoffs or other hockey news. A few years ago, our Pee-Wee A team went down and kicked the snot out of kids during the Silver Stick competitions and ended up winning it all. So, why does everyone not from the Southwest see Arizona as a non-hockey market? It's biased and wrong.

Hockey fans should be rooting for us, not asking us to leave. Without us, the NHL's market shrinks. That's a fact. Moving the team to Canada does not allow growth within the league! Stop assuming that! People living in Hamilton are already hockey fans, so giving them a team only makes them fans of that team instead of Toronto or Buffalo or whoever. The NHL does not gain fans with the Coyotes moving from Phoenix, it only loses fans. Moving the team to Canada is a lateral move at best and you people wonder why the NHL is stepping in to try and save our franchise? Really? Next time you have a thought about our team, just let it go.

you are assuming we have thoughts about your team.

 

[Evil Doctor]

How do you know? Do you live in Arizona? Do you even follow the Coyotes? If you said no to all of those questions, then you have absolutely NO right to say anything. What you stated was opinion, not fact. Just because our team has been bad for 6-7 years does not mean that the sport of hockey isn't working in Arizona. That's completely biased and ignorant.

...SNIP.....

Hockey fans should be rooting for us, not asking us to leave. Without us, the NHL's market shrinks. That's a fact. Moving the team to Canada does not allow growth within the league! Stop assuming that! People living in Hamilton are already hockey fans, so giving them a team only makes them fans of that team instead of Toronto or Buffalo or whoever. The NHL does not gain fans with the Coyotes moving from Phoenix, it only loses fans. Moving the team to Canada is a lateral move at best and you people wonder why the NHL is stepping in to try and save our franchise? Really? Next time you have a thought about our team, just let it go.

You do realize that if hockey was so popular in Phoenix and the team was making money, we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. I've read the Phoenix Coyotes forum and the complaints about how Arizonia media completely ignores hockey, and just like in Nashville, there are a lot of sports fans in Phoenix that want hockey to completely dissappear.

It's nice that you support minor hockey, and perhaps you can work to grow the sport from the bottom up and in another 20 years or so you might actually be able support a new franchise but right now, as a hockey market you are on the same level as Timmins....

 

[vivianmb]

No, our president tends to spend his time working on important international economic, political, diplomatic, and security matters.

Hey, but it's great that your leader doesn't have anything better to do with his time than concern himself with the fate of a bankrupt sports team. Good for him.

wow that flew right over your head.

 

[Jonas1235]

haah Where do you dream up these votes? Good lord.

hmmmm....

Minnesota, Leopold is the new owner, previous owner of Nashville. He will be in Bettman's corner.

Buffalo, does not want a team in the their backyard.

Detroit, wants to move to the Eastern Conference and will not be able to due to another team in the east.

Nashville, the new owners will not vote for a guy who wanted to move the team.

Pittsburgh, ownership will likely not vote for Balsillie either due to past history.

Toronto, will likely not vote for him due to territorial problems.

Ottawa, would not want another team in Ontario that will take away attention from them.

Other Canadian teams may not want more competition in Canada.

The southern teams are probably fed up with the "They should move to Canada" sentiment that has been going around recently. They can easily say screw you to Balsillie.

Then there's the rest of the league who can vote for whatever is best for them.

Balsillie has been rejected before and can easily get rejected again.

How can people say that he will get accepted? I don't see it possible.

 

[SuperDave21]

Stop making rational arguments!

This isn't about rationality to most of the people here. This is about vindictiveness and spite. It's common knowledge north of the border that Phoenix cruelly "stole" their team from the poor fans of Winnipeg. Watching the team move back to Canada would be the ultimate revenge.

I am convinced that a lot of people are not interested in what's best for the league, let alone "growing the game." They just want retribution for the loss of the Jets and Nordiques, the bitterness over which has just been festering for a decade.

I used to think that too but I don't put blame on the fans or even Canadiens in general. On the Coyotes boards we have been getting a lot of support from Canadiens who wish to see the team be successful in Arizona.

I actually blame the Canadian media for all of this. They keep putting out garbage report after garbage report in order to appease the fans that are bitter about teams moving from Canada. They feed their fan base's hatred and fan the flames until it boils over. That's wrong and completely unethical.

Look, we didn't steal anyone's team. We're happy to have it here and want it to thrive. I love hockey. I wasn't able to enjoy the sport as a kid because we didn't have a rink close to us or a team to follow. All I knew was that I loved playing NHL '94 on the Sega Genesis. That was the extent of my hockey exposure. When the Coyotes came to Phoenix, my parents went out and bought every piece of merchandise for me to wear and have. I finally had a team to call my own and follow. Since then I have been a die hard hockey fan all because the Jets became the Coyotes. That simply WILL NOT happen if the team moves to Canada, period.

 

[roosterman]

The leafs brand will be fine, but it will not be as strong as if there were no other downtown team.

1. Short term cash means nothing. They have enough money to do anything they want.

2. Rental income doesn't pay for the loss in Leaf brand.

3. MLSE will build a new arena before they let someone else do it.

MLSE is a growth company, they have no interest in diluting their assets for cash.

1. I'm not sure how you can say 200M+ means nothing even to the MLSE. It might even end up being double or triple that amount.

2. How can you realistically say that? How much would the rental income generate? How much are the Leafs going to lose as a result of a second Toronto team as opposed to one in Hamilton?

3. It makes no sense to me why MLSE would build a new rink when their existing one is not sold out all the time.

To me the bigger question is whether or not JB and MLSE can reduce their ego's enough to work a deal and let the Yotes play in the ACC.

 

[Brodie]

All this nationalistic posturing is so stupid and we're ignoring the actual issues here to argue about stupid things like if hockey could work in Spain and just how bad a market Phoenix is. Can we get back on track?

 

[Evil Doctor]

Here is a new point. I'm currently listening to the Fan590, and of course it wall to wall coverage of this story. How much coverage is the Phoenix radio stations giving this story?

 

[GSC2k2*]

Would there be a distinction between control of the franchise and control of the corporate entity holding the franchise?

i.e. Moyes' holding company that owns the Coyotes franchise filed for bankruptcy. Is the NHL assuming control of only the franchise or the franchise+the holding company? If it's the former then that would suggest the NHL wouldn't have authority to revoke the bankruptcy filing by the holding company?

It depends on the security documentation. I would be surprised if Skadden Arps did not put everyone on the hook. It is basic first-year lawyer stuff.

 

[bishop12]

hmmmm....

Minnesota, Leopold is the new owner, previous owner of Nashville. He will be in Bettman's corner.

Buffalo, does not want a team in the their backyard.

Detroit, wants to move to the Eastern Conference and will not be able to due to another team in the east.

Nashville, the new owners will not vote for a guy who wanted to move the team.

Pittsburgh, ownership will likely not vote for Balsillie either due to past history.

Toronto, will likely not vote for him due to territorial problems.

Ottawa, would not want another team in Ontario that will take away attention from them.

Other Canadian teams may not want more competition in Canada.

The southern teams are probably fed up with the "They should move to Canada" sentiment that has been going around recently. They can easily say screw you to Balsillie.

Then there's the rest of the league who can vote for whatever is best for them.

Balsillie has been rejected before and can easily get rejected again.

How can people say that he will get accepted? I don't see it possible.

The NHL is a business, not high school.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

You don't need Phoenix for any sort of a TV deal. You don't need Florida, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Minnesota, Columbus, Washington, Carolina, Nashville, St. Louis, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay or Atlanta for a national TV deal either.
And soccer is popular enough in Europe to make hockey an afterthought, especially in Western Europe (and rugby is only poular in the British Isles and France, with a very niche following in Italy). As I mentioned, thinking hockey needs Phoenix to compete with Europe is akin to thinking a European league needs Lisbon to compete with North America.

If you seriously believe that the league doesn't need penetration into the 4th and 6th largest markets in the US for a national TV deal, you're crazy. Atlanta, for that matter is #10.

 

[Brodie]

No, our president tends to spend his time working on important international economic, political, diplomatic, and security matters.

Hey, but it's great that your leader doesn't have anything better to do with his time than concern himself with the fate of a bankrupt sports team. Good for him.

Our President is too busy talking about how to force a college football playoff.

 

[Stronso]

Obviously no one can fully tell how a market is doing without living there, but come on...you're fooling yourself if you think hockey is working Phoenix. It obviously has something to do with the ****** team for the past decade, but pound for pound Phx isn't a hockey city.

Phoenix is a front runner city. If the team is winning then the seats will be filled, if not - then there are other things to do like golf.

I lived for 25 years in Phoenix and have attended 100's of Coyotes games and I can tell you that hockey can - and will - work in Arizona. If the team was not so horribly mismanaged both on and off the ice we would not be having these discussions. Moyes has been a HORRIBLE owner and the Gretzky experiment an unmitigated disaster.

Finally having a real GM like Don Maloney to run the team is a god-send. Having one of the best arenas in the NHL is a huge asset......the team has a stable of young talent that is ready to turn the corner.......all it needs is an owner like Reinsdorf and a good coaching staff to finally being it home.

I only hope that the PHOENIX COYOTES get the chance to pull it together to shut ALL of you up. Once they start winning you will be stunned to see the results and all of this "Phoenix sucks as a hockey market" will finally die off

 

[Evil Doctor]

I actually blame the Canadian media for all of this. They keep putting out garbage report after garbage report in order to appease the fans that are bitter about teams moving from Canada. They feed their fan base's hatred and fan the flames until it boils over. That's wrong and completely unethical.

Right because we know that hockey is number one in Phoenix and the team makes a ton of money and the reports about it being in bankruptcy is just propaganda...

 

[optimus2861]

Hockey fans should be rooting for us, not asking us to leave. Without us, the NHL's market shrinks. That's a fact. Moving the team to Canada does not allow growth within the league! Stop assuming that!

To be blunt: many of us in Canada don't particularly want or care for the NHL to grow in the southern United States, especially when it has meant sacrificing our own teams for the sake of the almighty American dollar.

If that makes me a spiteful Canadian NHL fan, so be it.

 

[GSC]

How do you know? Do you live in Arizona? Do you even follow the Coyotes? If you said no to all of those questions, then you have absolutely NO right to say anything. What you stated was opinion, not fact. Just because our team has been bad for 6-7 years does not mean that the sport of hockey isn't working in Arizona. That's completely biased and ignorant.

It seems to me that everyone has a prenotion that Arizona is still some wild west cowboy town, where the big city lights are scary to us "town folk." By golly we's just lucky enough to have ourselves one of them baseball teams down in the ol' OK Corral huh?

Instead of making assumptions, come down to Phoenix and see for yourself how hockey is thriving here. Come to our rinks and see people standing around, discussing the playoffs or other hockey news. A few years ago, our Pee-Wee A team went down and kicked the snot out of kids during the Silver Stick competitions and ended up winning it all. So, why does everyone not from the Southwest see Arizona as a non-hockey market? It's biased and wrong.

Hockey fans should be rooting for us, not asking us to leave. Without us, the NHL's market shrinks. That's a fact. Moving the team to Canada does not allow growth within the league! Stop assuming that! People living in Hamilton are already hockey fans, so giving them a team only makes them fans of that team instead of Toronto or Buffalo or whoever. The NHL does not gain fans with the Coyotes moving from Phoenix, it only loses fans. Moving the team to Canada is a lateral move at best and you people wonder why the NHL is stepping in to try and save our franchise? Really? Next time you have a thought about our team, just let it go.

That's great that Northern transplants help to build your hockey "base" down there. You have a couple rinks and a few programs, good for you. You're still nowhere close to the level of competition and interest for the game that there is up North. You'll never reach that point. But hey, a Peewee A team winning some games means that you've arrived apparently!

The attendance (or lack thereof) and inability to garner a true fanbase makes Phoenix that much less viable as a hockey market. The NHL isn't gaining jacksh*t for fans by placing a team in Phoenix, but by moving a team back to Canada they substitute a weak, failed market for proven success. The league is filled with teams losing money hand-over-fist, and when things don't work out then it's time to look back to where the game thrives and where you know the support will be.

Southern Ontario is an untapped gem when it comes to another NHL franchise. Millions of people with expendable income (even during this economic recession) who want to see hockey games. When it comes to the Leafs, it's a 20+ year wait for season tickets. That's A LOT of potential butts in the seats of an arena in Hamilton, Mississauga, Toronto, Kitchener/Waterloo, etc. Does Phoenix offer the same promise in terms of an established hockey following and the potential to be an annual hit at the gate? Not a chance.

Face it, the Sun Belt expansion maneuver is over. Some teams caught Lightning in a Bottle (pun intended, see: Tampa), and some found a bit of a niche in a growing region with little professional sports identity (see: Raleigh, NC and the Carolina Hurricanes). Others, like your Coyotes, are stuck with declining interest and nothing tangible to show for all the years of investment and parading "hockey in the South." It's a lost cause.

 

[Brodie]

It depends on the security documentation. I would be surprised if Skadden Arps did not put everyone on the hook. It is basic first-year lawyer stuff.

Just a question as you're clearly more in the know: Do you think Moyes and Balsillie have gotten some sort of legal advice that makes them think they have a realistic chance here or do you think they ade a massive mistake?

 

[TaketheCannoli]

How do you know? Do you live in Arizona? Do you even follow the Coyotes? If you said no to all of those questions, then you have absolutely NO right to say anything. What you stated was opinion, not fact. Just because our team has been bad for 6-7 years does not mean that the sport of hockey isn't working in Arizona. That's completely biased and ignorant.

It seems to me that everyone has a prenotion that Arizona is still some wild west cowboy town, where the big city lights are scary to us "town folk." By golly we's just lucky enough to have ourselves one of them baseball teams down in the ol' OK Corral huh?

Instead of making assumptions, come down to Phoenix and see for yourself how hockey is thriving here. Come to our rinks and see people standing around, discussing the playoffs or other hockey news. A few years ago, our Pee-Wee A team went down and kicked the snot out of kids during the Silver Stick competitions and ended up winning it all. So, why does everyone not from the Southwest see Arizona as a non-hockey market? It's biased and wrong.

Hockey fans should be rooting for us, not asking us to leave. Without us, the NHL's market shrinks. That's a fact. Moving the team to Canada does not allow growth within the league! Stop assuming that! People living in Hamilton are already hockey fans, so giving them a team only makes them fans of that team instead of Toronto or Buffalo or whoever. The NHL does not gain fans with the Coyotes moving from Phoenix, it only loses fans. Moving the team to Canada is a lateral move at best and you people wonder why the NHL is stepping in to try and save our franchise? Really? Next time you have a thought about our team, just let it go.

There are a few things pretty evident and most of the posts in this thread and the other ones devoted to Sunbelt NHL teams:

We have pretty strong evidence that NHL Hockey doesn't work in Phoenix. The Coyotes filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy yesterday. Phoenix has not been able to support the team well enough to survive. I think what we know is that RIGHT NOW, Phoenix probably is not viable.

Why do most posters see the NHL as some sort of zero sum game? Why is it impossible to add Canadian teams while growing the game in the US beyond the original 6 and second 6 cities?

Why does all of this seem to come down to the US v Canada? If Hamilton, Toronto or Portland ownership groups put together the best package, the NHL needs to take it. It has nothing to do with either country. It's about the business and whether or not the market exists to support a team AND how to grow the NHL.

Hockey fans need to pull their heads out of their butts and look around. Everyone should want the same thing, the business success of the game so we can all enjoy it.

 

[LadyStanley]

From XM/NHL Network's NHL Live this morning via Bob McKenzie:

This is an attempt to circumvent league rules and it's something we'll have to deal with.

Somebody devised a strategy which somehow they think entitles them to something they may not otherwise be entitled to do.

And Bettman thinks the Coyotes will (still) be in Phoenix next season.

 

[GSC]

If you seriously believe that the league doesn't need penetration into the 4th and 6th largest markets in the US for a national TV deal, you're crazy. Atlanta, for that matter is #10.

And just look at how well the NHL is doing in Atlanta...

 

[kdb209]

Bob McKenzie's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

So let's see if we can navigate our way through this maze that is the Phoenix Coyotes, Chapter 11 bankruptcy and Jim Balsillie's $212.5 million (USD) offer to purchase (conditional on the franchise being relocated to southern Ontario).

The first thing you need to know is that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman was in Phoenix today, ostensibly to put the finishing touches on an intent to purchase agreement from Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, whose intention was to apparently keep the financially-troubled Coyotes in their current home of Glendale, which is also home to Reinsdorf's spring-training baseball facility (a mile away from the Coyotes' Jobing.com Arena). That offer was expected to materialize within the next few days.

We don't know a lot about the Reinsdorf deal but suffice to say it likely wasn't in the $212.5 million range.

 

[SuperDave21]

Obviously no one can fully tell how a market is doing without living there, but come on...you're fooling yourself if you think hockey is working Phoenix. It obviously has something to do with the ****** team for the past decade, but pound for pound Phx isn't a hockey city.

The past decade? We've only been in existence for 13 years. I know teams who have been piss poor for longer than that and no one seems to want them to relocate. Yet again, you continue to make assumptions that hockey isn't working in Arizona. Of course, you see all and know all being from here. Oh right...

you are assuming we have thoughts about your team.

Look at the thread you're posting in. Obviously you have something to say since you took the time to type out your thoughts about the Phoenix Coyotes organization...

You do realize that if hockey was so popular in Phoenix and the team was making money, we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. I've read the Phoenix Coyotes forum and the complaints about how Arizonia media completely ignores hockey, and just like in Nashville, there are a lot of sports fans in Phoenix that want hockey to completely dissappear.

It's nice that you support minor hockey, and perhaps you can work to grow the sport from the bottom up and in another 20 years or so you might actually be able support a new franchise but right now, as a hockey market you are on the same level as Timmins....

What about the Islanders? The owner recently stated that he regretted buying the team earlier this month and yet no one seems to be talking about relocating the team as much as the Coyotes.

Our media attention has nothing to do with the Phoenix Coyotes organization. Not even a little bit. The Arizona Republic is a laughable example of a newspaper and our newscasters barely know anything outside of baseball and basketball, let alone a sport like hockey. The media to blame here is the Canadian media. They are so hell bent on getting a team to Canada that they will do and say anything. Unfortunately, a lot of people buy into their pieces of propaganda that they pass off as "news." What a joke. Anyone who reads The Globe and Mail for their daily news source should be sent off to an island somewhere to make beaded necklaces for a living.

 

[GSC]

And as for Bettman's remarks, again he doesn't like anyone who doesn't play by Little Gary's rules. He's fearful that a group of deep-pocketed Canadian owners will muscle him out of the league office.

I, for one, hope that's exactly what happens.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

And just look at how well the NHL is doing in Atlanta...

That has zero to do with national TV contracts. If you go to a network, and want them to pay hundreds of millions for a TV contract, yet you have no penetration of your product into 4 of the 10 largest markets in the country, they're going to laugh in your face, and walk away.