Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

[metafour]

JJ Cooper coming in hot. At the end of the day, this boils down to the front office's ability to evaluate their own prospects. Furthermore, if other teams are also evaluating Martin & SWR as "down", then their hypothetical rankings on industry lists doesn't really mean a whole lot as teams do their own internal evaluations and make trades based off of that information.

On paper, this is a big price to pay because of Martin. SWR on the other hand to me looks overhyped and is probably much less regarded in "real time" by actual baseball people if you take the reports that he's been more ~90-92 this year with a huge spike in walks. That's a back-end starter profile, not a "Top 100 prospect" profile.

 

[Hoverhand]

Things are too quiet, I want Mark Feinsand to tell me we're the front runners for Bryant right goddamn now.

 

[canucksfan100]

Next targets should be Craig Kimbrel and Kris Bryant IMO

Wont cost you even close to what Berrios did and they fill holes in your lineup and make you a serious contender

 

[Leafsfan74]

Blue Jays are going for it with the trade for Berrios. I never fault a team for doing that.

Dubas did the same, but his big dogs failed him when it mattered most.

Hopefully the Jays can make a serious run for the post-season.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yeah I don’t think the white Sox thought that either when they traded him for James Shields.
How did that work out?

They gave up on one of the best prospects in baseball after 55 minor league games

So Tatis Jr has put up 11 wins in the major leagues and signed a 300+ million dollar deal. Austin Martin is doing good in double ball in his first year as a pro. Martin is two months younger then Tatis. Like they literally are not even in the same stratosphere lol.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I'm going to rationalize this as best as I can.

Yes, Martin was a high pick, but he was always going to be more of a high-floor player than a star. His value was primarily in his bat and he wasn't showing the kind of power they projected to go with the hit tool. He also has only two positions at which he could be plus defensively on our team, and we're deep at both those positions (3B, 2B).

The Jays see a team deep in middle infielders, and with the emergence of Otto Lopez, Samad Taylor, and Kevin Smith's revival use the opportunity to move Martin at his highest value for a good player with control.

That's all I got.

 

[TF97]

Best case scenario, this could be a case of the Blue Jays selling high on diminishing assets. Not sure I buy it but possibility.

This is the thing for me, both players have genuine issues that concern me. But, given the prices paid for other players at this deadline, you would think they either could've gotten more than 1.5 years of Berrios for both Martin and SWR or at least not had to give up both of them. It just doesn't align with what this front office has done before (not that they have really been in a position like this in Toronto so perhaps that isn't fair to assume) and what the prices have been around the league. Like I said earlier, I would not have been shocked if Martin and SWR could almost fetch someone with the talent/control of Zac Gallen.

 

[Eyedea]

Martin got blocked by Bo and Springer. If any team was able to sacrifice a top prospect at a premium position for a TOR pitcher, it was the Jays. Just gotta extend him now. Groshans is also a few months younger and having a similar if not more encouraging season. Only way I'm moving him now is if Jose Ramirez is coming back.

I also think the emergence of Manoah and the inconsistency of SWR this season caused him to slip. Sell high and now the big club is starting to fill out.

 

[phillipmike]

Things are too quiet, I want Mark Feinsand to tell me we're the front runners for Bryant right goddamn now.

 

[Kurtz]

It's hard to believe that this trade came from the same guys who bitched at AA for dealing a prospect for Price.

 

[SDig14]

I'm going to rationalize this as best as I can.

Yes, Martin was a high pick, but he was always going to be more of a high-floor player than a star. His value was primarily in his bat and he wasn't showing the kind of power they projected to go with the hit tool. He also has only two positions at which he could be plus defensively on our team, and we're deep at both those positions (3B, 2B).

The Jays see a team deep in middle infielders, and with the emergence of Otto Lopez, Samad Taylor, and Kevin Smith's revival use the opportunity to move Martin at his highest value for a good player with control.

That's all I got.

And likely Smith having a huge breakout year may not have translated into league wide high trade value. May be better to deal a player with high value that they see with potential value decline vs someone they see could be rising but doesn't hold same value to other teams?

 

[Contenderorpretender]

More relief pitching please!

 

[SDig14]

Are there any good LH bats left or should we just get Bryant? Ha.

 

[Hoverhand]

Blue Jays are going for it with the trade for Berrios. I never fault a team for doing that.

Dubas did the same, but his big dogs failed him when it mattered most.

Hopefully the Jays can make a serious run for the post-season.

As of this second the Jays are in limbo, which imo is the worst place to be. They've given up significant prospect capitla to "go for it" but in order to truly "go for it" more moves need to be done.

My biggest fear going into today was them doing just 1 big move instead of 0 or 2-3.

 

[ER89]

Fingers crossed that Martin busts

The only guy who liked your post is a bruins fan. Should tell u something

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I blame phillipmike for this. Took too long in the shower my dude.

 

[canucksfan]

I am glad it's Martin and not Groshans. SWR has shown problems but is still a big overpayment.

 

[Hoverhand]

 

[as Pure as Evil]

ryu/berrios/ray/manoah/stripling/matz/pearson

looks alot better then the question marks we had in the spring

 

[paul pearce]

Martin is another biggio if he fulfills his potential. This is a very good trade. Now trade Pearson for another sp or reliever

 

[Bjindaho]

IMO, I would work on a Yan Gomes trade (willing to part with either Reese or Jansen) and then a Bryant+Kimbrel trade (something like Biggio, Smith, and Kay)

 

[Clark4Ever]

Toronto sports fans have had a rough week lol. They hated the Leafs free agency, hates the Raptors draft pick and hate the Blue Jays deadline deal.

And hopefully we'll be proven wrong on all accounts when all is said and done.

 

[Leafsfan74]

As of this second the Jays are in limbo, which imo is the worst place to be. They've given up significant prospect capitla to "go for it" but in order to truly "go for it" more moves need to be done.

My biggest fear going into today was them doing just 1 big move instead of 0 or 2-3.

Well Berrios is only making $6M or so and for another year. That's leaves cash in the bank for other moves, extensions etc.

They overpaid, there is no question about that. I've never been sold on "possibilities" for the future when you can acquire the guaranteed deal when you have a shot to make it today.

I'm not so sure I agree that Jays are in limbo. They are within striking distance. They will also have for the most part this same lineup for next year with Berrios in it.

 

[metafour]

Kevin Goldstein chiming in as well as Fangraphs moves Martin down to a 50 FV.

 

[phillipmike]